Ghost and XP activation

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Our company builds an alerting system that amounts to a small network of several computers. One is a Dell Dimension 8300 (Windows XP Pro) that runs the Administration software for the system, the only machine that a person sits in front of (and then only occasionally, the system is all automatic).

I write the software for the Admin Station. One of my tasks is to set up new ones when we sell a system. So I go open one of the Dell boxes from the stockroom, set it up and turn it on and go through all the startup, out-of-the-box welcome screens, giving the machine a name, all that stuff. Always hated all that Dell desktop junk, had to go through it and delete a bunch of nonsense, put our own graphic on the desktop, etc. Discovered at one point that the Operating System CD in the software kit, used for reinstalling Windows, restores everything but without all the crap on the desktop. Good improvement, so now I open a box and start right in with a reinstall.

After the basics there's still a good half a day of setup to do before sending it out, and today someone said, Hey why not get it all set up and Ghost the whole damn thing and then the job is just open the box and get the Ghost disk.

But am I right, that even though we have licenses for Windows XP for each of the Dells in their boxes, that the activation stuff would be on the Ghost image, and in effect it would scream and object as the image was loading, or would come up and not work because it found itself on a machine it was not originally installed to?

I write software, I'm not that great at hardware and OS stuff
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
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Activation after imageing is hit and miss. I use altiris, but sometimes I can image all I want, other times one out of 10 will want reactivated, other times all of them want reactivated.


One thing you could do is image BEFORE activation, then you get box out, put image on, on boot up, it says "I need activated, it's been more then 30 days(before login screen). You go through the activation shmooze and then you send the box out.
 

gaidin123

Senior member
May 5, 2000
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The problem you will run into with ghosting a normal Windows XP Pro box is the activation/SN. Every Dell you get is registered with a different key and it is not the VL/corporate edition.

If you plan on creating a ghost image for multiple machines running Windows XP you really need to go out and buy the XP Pro volume license version where you get 1 SN and there is no activation.

If you make a ghost image from one of the Dells you will have to activate every machine you ghost it on to. With that same SN on all those boxes rather than the SNs that originally came on them, I'm sure you would be violating some kind of license agreement.

We buy mostly Dells for our workstations which automatically come with XP Pro on them (we can't NOT buy an OS with them it seems) and we also pay for that same number of XP Pro VL licenses and ghost them the first time we plug them in. Yes it is absurd that we pay for 2 XP licenses for every machine but being able to ghost and not deal with activation (or reactivation when we re-ghost at some point) is worth it.

Gaidin
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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Get VLA keys (this is a benefit for anyone with more than 5 PCs), this will make your work MUCH easier.
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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gaidin123

I was afraid it would be something like that. But someone here suggested that I start with a fresh one again out of the box, and do the Ghost before the activation is done. Then when the activation pops up on a new Ghosted machine I would activate it with the key number on the sticker on the side of the Dell. I can't recall for 100% sure, though, it's been several months since I did one, at what point does Windows come up and insist that you activate it?

 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Well, now I have found some websites where it sounds like the only problem I would have would be that after putting a ghost image on a fresh new Dell, I would get asked to activate again, and I could do that using the code on the side of the Dell, which would be "new" and a legitimate code, and the activation would be accepted. Is that right? I try to read about this stuff and I don't follow all of what is said, I'm afraid

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Originally posted by: Felecha
Well, now I have found some websites where it sounds like the only problem I would have would be that after putting a ghost image on a fresh new Dell, I would get asked to activate again, and I could do that using the code on the side of the Dell, which would be "new" and a legitimate code, and the activation would be accepted. Is that right? I try to read about this stuff and I don't follow all of what is said, I'm afraid

Yes that will work. It seems like those Dell keys work for 1 activation. After that it requires an annoying call to hell.
 

imported_Dimicron

Senior member
Jan 24, 2005
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I get this problem often at work. Before we make a new image we run a MS program called Sysprep. It clears everything (i.e. the SAM, the Activation key, the registration code, everything) and makes it so after we run the image it's like new out of the box, only with all our toys/software on it and ready to go. Still have to go through reactivating it, but much easier when it shows as having it's actual registration code and not a code from a different computer.
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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So am I getting closer to clarity here? I too want to setup using a Ghost image which has all the preliminary stuff done and all our stuff loaded and configured and all that. If I then get challenged with a message from Windows, "Hey, you have to activate this thing!" and I can do that easily enough since I have a valid code (when I say code I mean the key code on the sticker on the lower left side of the Dell, a nice Microsoft Dell sticker with a code on it.) then that's no problem at all
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Sorry, I was too hasty. Is the sysprep thing required? I've heard of that but don't know how to do it
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Do I understand right - sysprep is what makes it so that windows will require a new activation and since I will have the code I'm OK?

 

imported_Dimicron

Senior member
Jan 24, 2005
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Correct. Run Sysprep. Then check use mini-setup, finally click on reseal. Once it shuts down, make the image. Do NOT let it boot into windows before you've made the image or you'll have to go through the startup menus and then run Sysprep again. After the image is 30 days old, it's at least been my experience that we have to call MS and they just give us a new code to type in regardless of the brand of PC we reimage.
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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After the IMAGE is 30 days, or after the new machine set up from the image is 30 days old?

We don't do this all that often. Maybe 5 or 10 per year
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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I found some websites on sysprep, and I think I follow what you're saying. sysprep strips out all the ID, then deletes itself. So that's why you told me not to reboot before making the image.

Then when the newborn machine set up from the image comes up it has no ID and takes me through the start screens. As long as I have a good code on the side of the box, I'm good.

Sorry to be so worried that I'm right. I have about a day's work into this and don't want to spoil anything
 

imported_Dimicron

Senior member
Jan 24, 2005
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The Image. After then when you use the image you'll have to activate it right away is the only problem. And even that just takes a 5min call to MS's automated system. No problem for me, and I reimage computers constantly.
 

imported_Dimicron

Senior member
Jan 24, 2005
327
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Follow this:
Power on computer (fresh from the box)
Go through the Dell junk (don't bother activating windows)
Install any required software and create any user/admin accounts
Run it through windows update/download and install patches for everything
Run Sysprep
Boot into Ghost
Make image
Done :thumbsup:
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Get VLA keys (this is a benefit for anyone with more than 5 PCs), this will make your work MUCH easier.

Hey I heard about this thing call VLA that doesn't require activation for this very reason. Did I mention it'll benefit anyone using more than 5 copies of XP since it's cheaper/copy?

Unless you're using OEM for a reason, DON'T!!!
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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I get it - the image would wake up on the new machine with a time reference to the day the image was made? So the 30 day grace period would be already up. Not a problem, since, again, we would be able to do the activation immediately.

and Phoenix86 -
Like I said, we don't do a whole lot of them. I just would like to save the time anyway, and it would be good to have a simple ghosting procedure instead of the long and complicated work instructions I have had to create in case anyone but me has to do it. And since we buy the Dells with the license already paid into the price, I don't think my penny-pinching boss would go for a VLA. But thanks for the thought. It all goes into the learning, as far as I'm concerned
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Interesting - I found a MS technical page that describes the same procedure. Now I'm thinking - does Dell do something like it? They buy a number of licenses, install to one machine as master, run sysprep, and when I take my new Dell out of the box it's in the same state of ready-to-ask-for-settings-and-require-activation as my Ghost image will be, except that mine will now have my software additions and revisions?

So Dell gets to install a "raw" XP, and add its Dell desktop junk and I remove the Dell junk and put on my lovely, useful, meaningful, worthy stuff?
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
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VLA is cheaper, penny pinching boss should like it. ;)

Other than that look into sysprep, as it'll do what you need for OEM installs. Yes, this is basically how OEMs ship machines, they use sysprep. Good luck.

Readme.txt
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Well, it's been a long hard road. I learned about the sysprep stuff and have been learning the hard way, making some mistakes and starting over. The big hurdle has been that I found sysprep somehow ruins the Message Queuing Service if it's been installed in Windows Components. We use Message Queues in our system, so it's gotta be there. I've reproduced it several times.

Install Message Queuing
run sysprep
at reboot Message Queuing is there and Started in Services
at second reboot, Message Queuing is NOT started and will not start

It objects that a dependency is missing. It can only be the Reliable Multicast Protocol driver. I did a lot of searching, and found that RMCast.sys has to be in System32\drivers. It is here, but somehow is no longer visible or available to Messsage Queuing. I found no way to fix it and no way to stop it from happening. Nothing on the web about the issue.

If anyone has any knowledge of that problem I'd love to hear about it.

I ended up starting over and building a new base state the way I wanted, with the idea that hey, I can always leave Message Queuing for AFTER running sysprep on the base state. To be safe, I have ghosted the machine in the precious base state BEFORE sysprep. And to verify the image before going forward, I loaded it on another machine that is slated to go out later. Might as well use it for testing now.

The thing that puzzles me most right now is that when I did load it onto the second machine, I got no objection from Windows, nothing like "Hey, what are you doing? This isn't the machine I was installed on originally!!??". It's an identical Dell Dimension 8300, but its internal machine IDs are different, arent they? Isn't this what we were talking about earlier? The Product Key I took off the side of the Dell is what was given to Windows when I started. The second machine has a different Product Key.

The only thing I can think is that I did not yet Activate the Windows install on the machine I built the base state on.

What is interesting is - might I now be able to do away with the sysprep thing and use this base ghost image for my reloading? I still have to activate each one before I can give it to a customer, and we do have genuine licenses so I'm not afoul of the law here.
 

Felecha

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2000
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Another curious thing - yesterday when I was working on it, the first machine (the one I installed and built the base state on) had a systray icon with a balloon that reminded me "30 days to go . . . ". Today I don't see it and it's not on the second machine that I can find.

Is this the "remind every few days" thing? I won't see it for a day or 2 more?



 

nomadh

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
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If sysprep causes a problem ghost had a utility (maybe sidwalker) that would strip out the sid. I wonder if that would force a reauthenticate without causing the sysprep probs. Also I wonder about forcing a phonecall at 30 days. When my lic expires because of messing with things like this I put in my ms product key and then the system tries to do the automated authentication through the web which is easiest I find. The prob there is if you have a firewall that needs authentication to get out. If I need to do more of this I'm going to have one port connected to a simple firewall just to get out. Good luck. You are close and already way ahead of not using any imaging product like you used to do.
BTW my current image can run on many different hardware platforms without modification or repair. My image can hop between AMD and Intel because of the trick listed below.
http://mostlycreativeworkshop.com/modul...le&thold=-1&mode=flat&order=0&sid=11#1

Its the only place I've seen this info.

BTW my image is getting to be near 2.1 gig on the C: not counting restore pts and pagefile. Anyone know a good desc of deletable files. I used crapcleaner and deleted the SP uninstalls and hotfix uninstalls etc. It maybe the best I can get. I have the novell client a few utilities and a network install of office 97, NAV spysweep and all patches. Anyone know a good thread on all this?
Thanks, Damon