GF2 MX TwinView: Diamond deal in the rough?

[SUOrangeman]

I started this thread over in the video area looking for US distributors for real TwinView cards. Well, loner came through on Gainward's offering, which is reviewed here. KD Computers in Wisconsin has this card on their video page for $139. Shipping to VA is $5.40.

I must admit, I am very tempted, but will hold off for the moment. For anyone else looking for such a card, jump on this one with three feet!

-SUO

Oops!

 

[virtuamike]

Interesting review. 5.5 ns RAM, GPU HEATSINK, AND DUAL VGA OUTPUTS? Wow. I don't have much of a choice, I think I'll have to buy it.

 

[RobsTV]

I went round and round trying to decide which card to get.
But after a lot of research, I gave up on TwinView for a couple reasons.
Almost zero gaming support for multi-monitor. The best you can do in some situations is a 3d game on one monitor, and Windows 2d desktop on the other. You can do that anyway with newer versions of Windows and almost any combination of video cards.

You can get a Full Blown GeForce2 GTS card for only $10 more.
I am using a Visiontek GeForce2 GTS card that cost me $144 at ubid.com, along with an old $15 S3 Virge card for second monitor.

Before jumping on the non-existant Multi-Monitor bandwagon, check out this site:
Multi-Monitor Resources

Also check out the forum at the above site. Seems as though this Gainward card may have some issues.

 

[IITravel]

I just ordered the Gainward CardEXpert MX 2 twin view. Looks like most of the problems are with Windows 2k but, look like the 7.x drivers have fixed this. Should get my card today but will be running it in Win 98SE and ME. Wish me luck.

 

[virtuamike]

Actually most of the problems were fixed with DirectX 8.0 for W2K. Running the 7 drivers on my MX, works great. Had AGP issues before, for some reason it was corrupting textures and causing games to crash. Everything smooth now. True, most games don't support dual monitors. More for working than anything else. Just think of it: Anandtech forum in one monitor, PS2 scan in the other. Or DOTD in one, Amazon PS2 bundles in the other. The possibilities are endless.

 

[YoungPoodah]

can the card handle two monitors with different resolutions in windows 2000. I know that the matrox series of cards are unable to do this. Thanks

 

[virtuamike]

Review says it can't, might have changed though since SP1, DirectX 8, and 7.x drivers are out now.

 

[dcdomain]

I don't think it's the cards fault. I think Win2k natively does not support two monitors with differet res...

How does this compare with the G400max or G450? I need a dual display card, and this is an awesome price. But I've heard negative reviews of the Twinhead...

 

[ETLA]

can anyone please tell me which one is better since I been arguing with my coworkers for so long.

Matrox G450 V.S. G400

we need dual monitor setup for the BEST quality cuz we are all graphic designers.....he said G400 I said G450 32ddr Ram he said G400 ddr 32mb is better than the new G450...anyone?

 

[awrmplace]

win2k can do 2+ monitiors at different resolutions

 

[ETLA]

yah, but we need like really good output and having multiple softwares open..3dmax, bryce, lightwave, photoshop, Illustrators, flash...etc..

 

[dcdomain]

I have heard, from many sources that the G400max is indeed better than the G450. However, I'm not sure if the performance gained in the G400max is worth the extra $50 or so...

So anyone know about the Twinhead? I need a dual display card... and paying $200 for an "old" card like the G400max is ridiculous... I mean I'm a Matrox fan and all, but since the G800 isn't likely to be released until next summer, I need a dual display card now...

 

[ETLA]

yah, please help me too..I want the BEST dualhead output there is

 

[SUOrangeman]

Since I started this, I guess I'll chime in.

I have been using two-video-card configs for a few months now with Win2K, Win98 (and later), and Linux. With two-card systems, you can run any color depth-resolution-refresh rate scenario you want. Matrox's DualHead came along and attempted to eliminate the need for a second card as it had a second RAMDAC on-board (may have been embedded in the Gxxx chip, I'm not sure). It *appeared* that earlier DH drivers required both monitors run at the same levels (color, resolution, refresh). Why? Because (this is my own guessing, not ever having tried a DH system) the DH drivers tricked Windows into seeing a single adapter that can handle a double-wide resolution (1280x480, 1600x600, 2048x786, etc.) This lets some spiffy apps, like those involving DVD movie play, TV tuners, and DirectX (read "games&quot to work on the second monitor (in two-card systems, those apps are confined to the primary display). As the drivers matured, some have claimed that the same levels for each monitor was no longer required *except for Win2K*. As far as I know, this stance holds true today, with Matrox claiming that Microsoft implementation in Win2K prevents them from going further.

From what I have read of TwinView, nVidia has let Windows handle the two displays from the door. To my knowledge, there has never been the requirement for running the same color depth-resolution-refresh rate on both displays. However, the limitation of confining DirectX and other apps to the primary display exists for TV configs. For this reason, most folks will knock TwinView and favor DH. Of course, who is to say that the next release of Detonators will eliminate this primary-display-only-stuff limitation. TV clearly makes up for this in the gamers world because of the GeForce chip. Matrox may still have a stranglehold on the 2D world (is nVidia that far behind), but 3D with some TV capabilities belongs to nVidia. As an added advantage TW is not limited to two monitors. TV-out, DVI, and multiple configs with those are available. You can disable one of the displays when needed. Oh yeah, with Win2K, you can change primary displays on the fly.

Having lived in the two-card world, I think TV is better *for me* than DH.

Make a little bit of sense?

-SUO

 

[IITravel]

Where can I download the newest drivers, just got my card today.

 

[WetWilly]

Both the G450 and G400Max have a 360Mhz primary RAMDAC; the G400 has a 300MHz RAMDAC, so there may be some difference at very high resolutions. The Matrox TVO chip for the secondary display has been integrated onto the G450 chip and is external on the G400Max. Display quality for both should be identical or near identical.

You can't really do an even performance comparison between the G400Max and G450 without considering overclocking, and I don't believe there are any overclocking utilities out for the G450 yet. Most G400s could be overclocked to G400Max levels.

If display quality is your primary consideration over 3D speed, the Matrox G450 DualHead is a no-brainer choice over nVidia TwinView. You also get good quality TV out with the TVO chip; supposedly much better than nVidias. If you can get by with 16MB DDR memory, the G450 DualHeads are around $100; the 32MB DDR is $140-150. If all you're doing is 2D, a 16MB SDR G450 Dual Head can be had for $80-85.

 

[dcdomain]

Sweet.. the TwinView sounds pretty nice. So from what you are saying, they have dual monitor support and tv support? So I can output to two monitors, or a TV and a monitor? If that's the case, it might be good when I play DVD's. However I already have two monitors, so I won't have to worry about the primary display thing. I mean I'll have to have one, but both monitors could be switched to primary.

[update] Just read up on the specs... yeah, TV out is through an adapter... hmmm. Still around the same price as a G450...

[update] whoops my bust... didn't get enough sleep... damn studio.

 

[WetWilly]

SUOrangeman,

but 3D with some TV capabilities belongs to nVidia
Not sure about that. You're back to the quality vs. speed debate that tends to dog nVidia considerations. Every comparison review of TV-out I've seen favors Matrox over the Rockwell/Brooktree/Conexant chip that nVidia cards tend to use.

As an added advantage TW is not limited to two monitors. TV-out, DVI, and multiple configs with those are available
That's also true with Matrox DualHead. The Matrox G450 has integrated both a TMDS digital flat panel transmitter and Matrox's own TVO chip which supports both monitors and TV-out. All you need is an adapter that plugs into the VGA connector for TV-out.

 

[Siamskunk]

IITravel
Try this

 

[WetWilly]

dcdomain,

TwinHead ... not quite - it's nVidia TwinView and Matrox DualHead.

Matrox's TV adapter is just an cable adapter that connects to the second VGA connector on the G4xx. If DVD viewing is a factor, Matrox has a DualHead DVDMax mode which allows full screen output to the TV-out/secondary while keeping your Win desktop separate.

Check here for a list of Matrox's DualHead modes.

 

[SUOrangeman]

WW-

Thanks for the Matrox corrections. I was trying to separate 3D capabilites of nVidia (versus DH) and the TV capabilities of TV (vs. DH), not the 3D capabilites that shown on TV-out. Besides, I really haven't followed Matrox's latest offerings. Looks like there are no direct TV-out options, if an adapter is required (VGA-to-TV). nVidia-based cards seem to have S-Video/RCA/Coax or some other NTSC/PAL/SECAM output for their TV musings.

-SUO

 

[IITravel]

Siam...
The link is dead, can't get through.

 

[Siamskunk]

That worked fine to me.
check your browser.

http://www.reactorcritical.com/

 

[IITravel]

Odd, still won't work for me??? Even if I type in the IP.

 

[Siamskunk]

don't know why you couldn't get to that page.
anyway......here's the best I can do:

7.17 driver direct link (2.18mb)

edit: seems like it bounces back to the download page, if you can get to the page.....then scroll down till you see 7.17 for geforce.