Getting ready to order... still have a couple questions

[LightField]

Sleepingforest and Ken g6 helped show me a lot of great deals and put together some builds... since then I have kind of revised my thinking waiting for the tax return to arrive. This is my latest build.. I tried to just read the part picker site for RAM info but I am not sure if this is the best RAM I can get for my money.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GKOL
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GKOL/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GKOL/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($149.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Biostar H77MU3 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($113.79 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 1GB Video Card ($99.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($18.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $757.71
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-01 14:40 EST-0500)

Also, I am considering getting the modular version of this power supply to make it easier for me to wire. I read in the reviews that some people had problems getting the rebate back so I figure why not pay the full price - $50 - and get the modular as well.

Here is a link to the modular PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=

But if I am using 3 harddrives (I have another 2 TB that will be backing up the one I am buying here) and an optical drive is it worth it to get the modular PSU since I will be using a lot of wires anyway? I am unfamiliar with wiring so I don't know which way to go there.

I haven't been able to find much info on the modular version. Also, is the 430w power supply meant to be mounted on the bottom of the PC? The fan setup seems kind of strange.

I am going to be trying to build this in a nice HP case I have so I am hoping the PSU and the motherboard will work OK. I only have space for a 9.6" vertical height motherboard and have to mount the power supply on the top. My original MB in that case was 9.6x9.6 so hopefully the slightly narrower one works ok with the standoffs.

One other question... do you think one 80mm case fan will be enough for all this in a prebuilt HP case?

 

[Blain]

I am going to be trying to build this in a nice HP case I have so I am hoping the PSU and the motherboard will work OK.

Does your research indicate the HP case supports a micro-ATX MB form factor?
The HP case didn't house a BTX MB, correct?

 

[Termie]

Can you post a link to the case or the original computer model it was used for.

The dimensions you list suggest it is micro ATX, although few mATX motherboards use the full width, so it should have narrower mounts as well, but being OEM it may not. Either way, I am fairly confident that any mATX motherboard will fit, worst case being that you won't be able to use all of the screw attachment points.

The power supply shouldn't be an issue unless the case doesn't use standard ATX power supplies. The power supply you linked to is quite standard. You'll mount it with the fan facing down.

And just as an aside, unless you are really wedded to the case, I'd suggest considering a new one. Building in OEM cases can lead to unforeseen problems, the first being poor cooling. You're building a low power system so the single fan will be ok, but loud.

 

[Sleepingforest]

You can spend $50 less on that much RAM here. Corsair Vengeance is simply never worthwhile (unless the market catches up in price).

 

[mfenn]

And just as an aside, unless you are really wedded to the case, I'd suggest considering a new one. Building in OEM cases can lead to unforeseen problems, the first being poor cooling. You're building a low power system so the single fan will be ok, but loud.

Agree. Also, OEM cases tend to use custom front panel headers, so cutting splicing may be required to get it to work with a channel mobo.

 

[LightField]

Sorry about taking so long to respond.. I thought no one responded because I was asking dumb or annoying questions.

Here is the HP case I was going to use...

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...foCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=3644702

Here is the motherboard that's in it..

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA/Doc/images/661/c02247079.jpg

I have a bit of metal working experience so if I had to drill a couple holes or something for standoffs It shouldn't be a problem. But if there is a wiring issue I would probably need help with that.

 

[LightField]

You can spend $50 less on that much RAM here. Corsair Vengeance is simply never worthwhile (unless the market catches up in price).

One thing I like is that this Corsair Vengeance I found last night

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=

it's popular and there are a lot of reviews on it so I know it performs well and they have good customer service. Also, I was able to find good info on motherboards that are compatible with Corsair Vengeance RAM so I was thinking of revising and getting this motherboard -

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007RS70YW/?tag=pcpapi-20

It looked like it had the right proportions for my case, too.

 

[Sleepingforest]

:sigh: The RAM I recommended is perfectly fine and should work in any motherboard. There is no reason for you to spend $50 more on RAM and $30 more on the motherboard.

 

[LightField]

:sigh: The RAM I recommended is perfectly fine and should work in any motherboard. There is no reason for you to spend $50 more on RAM and $30 more on the motherboard.

The cheaper motherboard doesn't have the same dimensions as the board in my HP case or the more expensive asrock one... that factored in as well. I also like that the asrock had somekind of enhanced performance and more USB ports and seemed to be higher quality.

But if you say there's not much of a difference I will definitely reconsider. I am just a person that tends to prefer getting quality stuff if possible even if I have to wait to get other components later. I always feel you get what you pay for. Plus I hope to have more money coming in soon so I don't want to skimp on components if I can prevent it.

I could get a cheaper case but I feel the HP case is very well built and likely better than a cheaper case I would be getting. Especially for my needs now.

Here is another build I put together.. there is no SSD but I feel that is a luxury I don't necessarily need right now because of the work I will be doing.... from my understanding the SSD only really helps with loading stuff into RAM. That isn't a concern to me. My concern is working speed - so high performance RAM is the issue for me it seems.

Plus.. I need money for other odds and ends I might need to get..

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GVgY

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($149.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4-M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($98.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($102.89 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($102.89 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 1GB Video Card ($99.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($18.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $688.71
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-02 20:10 EST-0500)

 

[Termie]

Case - the one HP actually looks cool. Worth a try using it. You lose USB3, actual cooling ability, and perhaps use of front ports. But yes, you can try it and if it didn't work, you could just buy a new one.

RAM: I'm of the belief that there is such thing as quality RAM. I'd like never buy RAM that didn't list full specs, and I wouldn't buy 1333 for an Ivy Bridge system. Get some G.Skill DDR3 1600, cas 9 or 10. By the way, you need Windows Pro to run more than 16GB of RAM. Why do you want that much by the way?

 

[LightField]

Case - the one HP actually looks cool. Worth a try using it. You lose USB3, actual cooling ability, and perhaps use of front ports. But yes, you can try it and if it didn't work, you could just buy a new one.

RAM: I'm of the belief that there is such thing as quality RAM. I'd like never buy RAM that didn't list full specs, and I wouldn't buy 1333 for an Ivy Bridge system. Get some G.Skill DDR3 1600, cas 9 or 10. By the way, you need Windows Pro to run more than 16GB of RAM. Why do you want that much by the way?

I am working on a graphic novel/research book..

So I will be using photoshop and a lot of art programs and I will have a huge amount of research I am working with at all times.

Also, I will be drawing the graphic novel digitally with super high res multi layered images... and that requires an immense amount of RAM. So my feeling is that this is where I want to dump the money now and get the best performance I can there.

Plus I feel I will have the money soon to get some large SSDs... and those are a luxury I don't really need now. I would rather get the higher end components I can now and then add to that soon. I am thinking I might get a CPU cooler and a better graphics card in a bit as well and then move this graphics card to an older PC, hopefully they are compatible.

Also, I was thinking of using RAMdisk as the scratch disk for my artwork because RAM is cheap and it would be ideal for the projects I am working on where as something like editing video would require really large drives to move information around. Comics are smaller files than video but very weighty it seems.. if that is the right word.

 

[LightField]

Case - the one HP actually looks cool. Worth a try using it. You lose USB3, actual cooling ability, and perhaps use of front ports. But yes, you can try it and if it didn't work, you could just buy a new one.

Also, that HP case has this little area where you could install a removable external drive in the front. So there is a large opening there.

I was thinking of modifying that and putting a couple or three little fans in there. You could get some great cross flow of air that way. I wanted to make a little filtration system, too, because I have 2 cats and can't stand all the dust.

The harddrives are also set up out of the way inside so they don't block the air flow.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The SSD is less of a luxury than you think. You're pretty much guaranteed to need a scratch partition for Photoshop regardless of how much RAM you have; it's better to go 16GB+SSD than to have to use a hard drive for scratch. It's also a huge pain to copy over your OS and primary programs to the SSD. Most here will tell you that it's best to forgo an HDD's bulk storage for a month or so in favor of an SSD and get it later rather than the other way around for that very reason.

Also, if this is just a Photoshop build, CS6 is maxed out by a GTX 650 and CS5 doesn't use GPUs at all.

For the same amount of money after rebate as your build:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($259.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H77M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Essentials 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($34.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Mushkin Essentials 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($34.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($67.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($92.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 650 1GB Video Card ($95.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $681.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-02 21:26 EST-0500)

You can have a Xeon with multithreading, 16GB RAM, and an SSD. If you think you'll have money for an SSD in the future, you can just put it into RAM instead.

 

[LightField]

The SSD is less of a luxury than you think. You're pretty much guaranteed to need a scratch partition for Photoshop regardless of how much RAM you have; it's better to go 16GB+SSD than to have to use a hard drive for scratch. It's also a huge pain to copy over your OS and primary programs to the SSD. Most here will tell you that it's best to forgo an HDD's bulk storage for a month or so in favor of an SSD and get it later rather than the other way around for that very reason.

Also, if this is just a Photoshop build, CS6 is maxed out by a GTX 650 and CS5 doesn't use GPUs at all.

What about using the Ramdisk for scratch though?

Also, I don't mind re-installing my OS onto a new drive because I have something that allows me to plug in my old drive as an external drive. Plus I just recently had to reformat so I am well prepared to do it again. This is why I need a new PC. My old one is under-powered and seems to be getting unstable.

But even if I do need to get a small flash scratch disk that would be better than having to get a larger one which is almost 200. That is a big chunk of my budget and i could get better components and easily get some new SSDs later.

I mean I think both are good ways of doing it but I just think what I have planned now suits my needs and plans more. I definitely like hearing your POV though because I could be wrong and I could change my mind. I do feel good about the setup I have picked out right now though.

My concerns now are how to setup the fans I want to get and making sure I have all the little odds and ends I need to build it.. and the thermal grease and all that business.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The scratch disk only comes into play if you run out of RAM. Thus a RAMdisk for scratch is 100% redundant. Look at my edited post for a build with everything you need: (GPU, SSD, HDD, and 4 core/8 thread CPU).

Also, pretty much every HSF comes with thermal grease and decent fans.

 

[LightField]

You can have a Xeon with multithreading, 16GB RAM, and an SSD. If you think you'll have money for an SSD in the future, you can just put it into RAM instead.

But that board only maxs at 16GBs of RAM, right?

I was thinking I could use the PC for more than art later as I get more funds... editing video and 3-D art work. But my primary focus right now is art. I probably should have explained that better early on but I didn't want to lose focus on what I was doing because I know most people are more concerned with gaming. That is a distant distant concern for me but wouldn't be a bad thing.

It can be difficult to explain many of the factors that others might not be aware of. That may be why there seems to be a disconnect or me being stubborn.. or maybe I am wrong and don't know it.. haha

 

[LightField]

The scratch disk only comes into play if you run out of RAM. Thus a RAMdisk for scratch is 100% redundant. Look at my edited post for a build with everything you need: (GPU, SSD, HDD, and 4 core/8 thread CPU).

Also, pretty much every HSF comes with thermal grease and decent fans.

I thought it was recommended not to use the thermal grease that comes stock.. I think it's preinstalled? maybe I am wrong on that.

Also, I thought a RAMdisk was superior as a scratch disk compared to SSDs.. this is why I felt that especially in my situation it would be the better way to go. Because of the type of work I am doing I thought it would be perfect for this setup.

And if you have a lot of RAM without a RAMdisk your art programs won't utilize all of it for some reason.. they always use a scratch disk. I heard the solution was to use a RAMdisk for the scratch disk and it is much better performance than even the SSDs for scratch disks.. but I guess I was misinformed.

 

[LightField]

I think I know how to explain it... you are using the RAMdisk AS an SSD... And the RAM is far superior to a SSD in performance...

And I think this would be ideal for what I am doing because like I said.. I am not working with huge files here. But the files I am using are very weighty.. where as video files are using many small files and can handle swapping them to different drives without being noticed in and out of RAM.

The files I use are all being used at once.. this is why i think I will get the best performance this way with the type of work I am doing right now. But this is just my theory...

 

[LightField]

Here is a article about using a RAMdisk for a scratch disk though...

http://photos4clix.com/?p=1601

 

[LightField]

Quote from a search I did -

"On Windows I used to use a ramdisk as my scratch disk in Photoshop (since it insists on using one even if you have way more memory than it needs)."

 

[Sleepingforest]

Right, but that person probably had 64GB+ of RAM. In normal usage scenarios, you WILL run out of RAM and have to use a scratch disk. It's just too expensive to justify when the same money could bump you up to 8 threads.

 

[LightField]

I had heard with Photoshop work the processor wasn't that important though... RAM was. Many people who use photoshop heavily use 32GBs of RAM I have seen.

I am not saying you are wrong.. you very well might be right. That was just the info I was working under.. and it made sense to me. But maybe those people with 32GB of RAM have really powerful processors and I wasn't aware of it.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Photoshop definitely benefits from upgrading from 4 cores to 4 cores/8 threads, far more than going 32GB. Plus, upgrading the RAM later when you get more cash is much easier than upgrading the CPU and getting an SSD.

 

[LightField]

Photoshop definitely benefits from upgrading from 4 cores to 4 cores/8 threads, far more than going 32GB. Plus, upgrading the RAM later when you get more cash is much easier than upgrading the CPU and getting an SSD.

Wouldn't it depend what you are doing in Photoshop though? For example if you are using Photoshop to batch render effects over a large number of images then I could see the processor being the issue.

In my situation I am dealing with super high resolution multi layered images... and then you have to factor in "undos" for these super large files.. this is RAM intensive not processor intensive. And it's working memory.. something that doesn't seem to do well swapping in and out even with an SSD.. a RAMdisk would seem to be superior.

And I could keep all my info for each project I am doing at that time in my RAM... basically I see it as a small super computer.... specifically for my project size. The type of project I am doing is unique though... this might be why it doesn't seem logical to others. Orrrr maybe I am really misguided. haha

 

[Sleepingforest]

I don't know enough to tell you definitely what would be better in that specific case then. You'd have to wait for someone more knowledgeable, like mfenn or lehtv.