Getting evangelistic about Trinitron monitors: don't short change your eyes!

[Rigoletto]

This is my boy scout helpful mode:

If you are considering improving your monitor, you must get a trinitron!
Why?
Trinitrons have masks behind the screen like vertical slots. It allows more electron energy to the screen than a shadow mask which is basically a sieve, creating higher contrast. Also, it does not break vertical text lines into dots so much.
Trinitrons command a 33% premium at least over the cheapest shadow masks, butbaseline trinitrons always have better electronics than baseline shadow masks, so the premium for the trinitron works out as being less for that technology alone. Trinitrons tend not to be built down to a price. If you want to offload cheap monitors, you don't start from £150 for 15".
Trinitrons have smaller stripe pitches than dot mask pitches. For example, the commonest stripe pitch is .25mm, the commonest shadow mask pitch is .28mm. So already, a 17" typical trinitron will technically resolve as well as a 19" shadowmask on this alone.

"Ignorance is bliss"
It's easy for people who just think a monitor is a monitor and only think of its size to be completely oblivious to what I am writing. But you owe it to your eyes to actually look at a trinitron for a while to appreciate what it can do for you. I have always lived with shadow masks until this week. I have seen several monitors in PC superstores. Shadow mask is shadow mask is shadow mask. It always has the same problems of inferior contrast, and less crisp focus with text.

"So if this is true why aren't most tubes trinitrons?"
Why aren't most computers Macs?! Because the trinitrons were invented by Sony, who hold the patent. It makes it more expensive for manufacturers to license the technology. Also, there must be a small premium for physically making the monitors (input here would be appreciated). In case you haven't noticed, the PC market is fiercely price competitive. Shadow mask 17" starts from £147 here, and trinitrons £198. PC builders in their ignorance, and in point of view of the ignorance of the general public also, do not bother with the extra expense. "A monitor is a monitor is a monitor". Most PC buyers can't see the monitor before they buy, but they can see all the cute numbers. It's easier to justify a four speaker system and surround sound addition and an improved video card than a higher quality monitor. So what happens?- people aren't keen to upgrade a monitor until they for some reason require a larger picture, because it usually makes their old monitor completely redundant, and because it seems to offer "more of the same." In short the fact that trinitrons are not numerically dominant is more to do with PC psychology than the trinitron technology.

So, well, I tried to help you, but as they say, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink!
I don't consider that I have very specific psychological preferences in my displays. I actually prefer a lower contrast and colour on my television than almost anyone else. I have a photographer's eye because I WAS a photographer.
If anyone is going to respond, please don't embarrass yourself if you have only ever seen a shadow mask monitor...

 

[hans007]

the slot mask lets out more light. Which gives better contrast and color and brightness, but lowers the sharpness. Thats why a really good shadowmask is better. There is anohter one with ellipses that are bigger than a shadowmask's holes and smaller than a slot mask also i forgot what its called. My dad works in the monitor industry, he says a 19" shadow mask with the same specs as a flat screen front costs about $5 more to produce, same with shortneck. All these extra features cost nothing really to add. So sony is screwing us all. Also supposedly the bulk price for a tube ( a 19" ) that does 1600x1200 @ 75hz is about $6-10 less than a 19" 1600x1200@85hz, just manufactureres of complete monitors charge more. The company he works for owns the chung-hwa picture tubes of taiwan , so they know.

 

[PliotronX]

Moral of the story: don't skimp on your monitor purchases!

 

[LXi]

Rigoletto:

We truely appreciate your opinion on this matter, but your 2 cents are 2 cents, and it can't change the fact that Aperture Grilles are apples and Shadow Masks are oranges. What you're merely stating is what you prefer, you can brag all you want about how Aperture Grilles being so superior technically, but after all, there is still a large amount of people either dislike them or can't see the difference. Its great to hear that your eyes like the Aperture Grilles, but it's just your personal preference. And you forgot to mention one of the most important disadvantages of Aperture Grilles, the two damper wires that creates two thin lines across the screen, especially on bright backgrounds. I know you'll say "Oh I dont care" or "I cant see them unless someone mention it", but again, others may not like them. Just because you like AG does not mean that others do. Again all I want to say is opinions are not facts, and people should not listen to opinions about AG vs SM, but rather they should take a look themselves. I remember how foolish I was going around being so incredibly zealous about AGs, but then when the people saw it, it didnt really impress them, thats what I called embarrassment. One more thing I want to mention, the most common dot pitch for SMs today are already lowered to 0.26-0.27, and even smaller ones coming into mainstream, namely the Samsung DynaFlat which is only 0.20mm horizontal(0.23-0.24mm diagonal), so declaring AGs have an advantage in the pitch size is false.

 

[rockhard]

hmmm? just curious:-

why is it that my Diamondtron monitor (iiyama VMPro410) looks better tham my Sony Trinitron (GDM400PST)?
The iiyama is so much a better monitor in all areas that ive got rid of the Sony

I was given the impression by other people in other forums that the Sony's Trinitron is overhyped unless your looking at the top of the range models?

rockhard =)

 

[randomlinh]

has there been a spur of monitor talk lately? I mean, even I started a thread earlier

 

[Mears]

IMHO, everything made by Sony is overpriced. You can get the same performace from other manf. at a much lower price. This is my experience with tvs, cd players, and above all car audio.

 

[Rigoletto]

LXi, the point about enthusing over trinitrons here is that people take the effort to actually investigate the appearance of monitors before they buy them and do their eyes right. I stated that I was unusual in preferring a higher contrast tube, whilst viewing TV at lower contrasts than other people. Thus, I see no reason why the average person would not be happier with a trinitron. Monitor performance is not well conveyed by numbers or reviews, unlike other computer gear. Still, let's privately agree trinitrons are great, if you like.
* thanks to hans007 and Dulanic for the input. There doesn't seem a physical reason why taut wires should be more expensive than an invar mask so it must be because of the patent, like you say. Flat screen is another matter. I think flat screens are a great idea, but mine still looks concave right now...
Putting my cards on the table I should say I own a MAG DXT-15, which they made 3 years ago. It is 15" and I am running it at 1024x768 with perfect comfort. That takes some beating. Further, the top res is 1280x1024. I wonder if imperfect colour consistency across the screen is going to become a nuisance though.

 

[Dulanic]

Actually production costs are alot higher. I used to sell TVs so I know the difference between a flat screen and a normal. #1 A flat screen requires about 25% more glass to make. #2 To get the picture to not look curved etc.... they had to use a totally new electron gun and targeting design. Thats why tubes always where rounded... it was the only way they could get the picture "straight". The price difference between the 2 electron gun designs is about 40% during manufacturing. #3 This again is related to the electron gun... but it also has to do with more. When the gun is focused directly on the edges of a screen it is at a decently high angle. This gave very very poor picture quality around the edges.... shine a flash light at an angle on a wall.... how much bigger is the circle compared if you pointed it straight? So they had to design a totally different refraction/reflection system to get the beam to be more straight against the edges of the screen. All of this adds onto cost. It really is more expensive to manufacter a flat tube.

 

[Razzer]

I have a 17' KDS Avitron and I love it the best monitor I have ever had Trinitron RULES.

 

[Eug]

The few times I've done the investigations myself, I've always preferred higher end shadow mask monitors to similarly spec'd aperture grill. This is not even considering the price premium for aperture grill. However, most of my applications are text based and so far I've based most of my assessments on text quality. Now that I've been using Photoshop more, I will consider aperture grill in the future. However, even though I consider them not a big deal, the two lines do irritate me still, ESPECIALLY for graphics based applications.

<< For example, the commonest stripe pitch is .25mm, the commonest shadow mask pitch is .28mm. So already, a 17&quot; typical trinitron will technically resolve as well as a 19&quot; shadowmask on this alone. >>

This is of course a misleading statement, because for the price one can easily get much lower pitch, with most people with an eye for quality buying 0.26. 0.25 also is very common, and there are others with even smaller dot pitches. If you've been comparing low-end Trinitron to low-end shadow mask monitors then you've missed the point, because low-end shadow mask monitors cost a lot less generally.

 

[Rigoletto]

I'm getting some purely stupid comments about what I wrote. Just go back and read it carefully.

 

[Radboy]

I heard Sony made the best monitors - have read a few reviews, not many, but they're too expensive for me.

The monitor is the primary analog gateway to the didgital world, and is the last place where one should skimp.

I have Iiyama VM Pro 450 - w/ Mits flatty tube.

 

[AL77]

<< I'm getting some purely stupid comments about what I wrote. >>


Rigoletto, why are they &quot;stupid&quot;. I think some of the points are valid. For eg., the two dampening wires (to hold the vertical wires of the aperture grille in place) do annoy some people (although I'm fine with it myself), especially when they are not perpendicular to the side of the screen, i.e. not perfectly horizontal/level.

Also, while I would buy a high-end flat-display aperture grille monitor for myself, I would have to say based on my experiences (note IMO), looking at dozens of monitors, a high-end shadow mask display beats a high-end aperture grille in text definition. It just seems 'tighter'. Call it personal preference. But, the text quality of the new aperture grilles in general seem to be very good, better than what I've noticed in the past, and the colour saturation/intensity/contrast are well known attributes/advantages of the aperture grille display.

 

[LXi]

There are NO stupid comments being made here, an preference is a preference and we have to respect that. As much as I love AG I still take that into account, I never leave out SM monitors when Im making recommendations.

 

[Rigoletto]

You puff about stupid comments, but you have no indication of what stupid comments I am referring to. You are merely ASSUMING. Don't assume because it makes an ASS out of U and ME.
I have a problem with EUG who has not retained what I have written and regurgitates to me what I wrote as if it is part of a refutation. Why is is that I have to teach the English language to people? I wrote that the apparent premium for trinitron monitors includes better electronics in the cheapest trinitrons than the baseline shadowmasks i.e. (can you really not see what I was saying in my original post) you are not paying extra for merely the trinitron technology.

 

[LXi]

What Im saying is, opinions or perferences do not equal stupid comments. You didn't point out who you were speaking to, so we started assuming, my guess was right you were talking to Eug because he dislikes AG, do you respect his personal preference? Or are you gonna *make* him like AGs? Didn't see anything wrong with the stuff he was saying either.

 

[The Wildcard]

YUp, personal opnions are the most important thing of all. That's why i tell anybody who is interested in buying monitors to look at them for themselves cuz everybody has different eyes.

I also agree with pilotron, don't be cheap when it comes to monitors.