Getting engaged, but need advice on a ring

[Wreckem]

Not entirely true...David Atlas has had some charts up a long time that were pretty accurate. The charts are down but replaced with a calculator:

http://datlas.com/AGA_NAJA_Cut_Class_grader/index.php

That stone got an overall 4A rating which is below average.

1A-1B are American Ideal Cuts
2A-2B are International Fine Trade Cut
3A-3B are US Domestic Average Cut
4A-4B are Below Average Cut

There is A LOT of good information on that site.

That doesn't have a drop down for cushion cut. Again, some might rely on number to determine a degree of cut quality, however outside rounds and a much lesser extent princess cuts, it is next to impossible to judge a diamonds performance(light return, scintillation, etc) based solely on numbers.

 

[alkemyst]

That doesn't have a drop down for cushion cut. Again, some might rely on number to determine a degree of cut quality, however outside rounds and a much lesser extent princess cuts, it is next to impossible to judge a diamonds performance(light return, scintillation, etc).

Good sites provide idealscope images and the AGA/DAtlas site shows you what they are supposed to look like.

 

[Wreckem]

Good sites provide idealscope images and the AGA/DAtlas site shows you what they are supposed to look like.

Exactly. You need pictures, not numbers. Numbers can tell you if its a contender, but it can't tell you if its a winner. Its also better to have ASETs if you know what you are doing/looking at.

But that can be complicated for some. Thats why I said he should work with a company that specializes in cushions. GoodOldGold isn't going to steer him wrong, they'll even compare multiple diamonds and shoot a video of them if you ask.

I also asked if he knew for sure if she wanted a cushion and why she wanted it. Cushions come in two very different looks. Some look like crushed ice and some look very chunky. Different people prefer one look over the other.

 

[Lithium381]

Another thing to do is go to the mall stores and see what these different grades look like. I would start with this.

When I was shopping I was appalled at what mall stores were selling as "premium" or "high end". When I can see inclusions with a naked eye, its crap IMHO. Color is a bit tougher since mall stores have lighting that makes yellow stones appear less yellow. Take it out of the store lighting and it will look bad, generally speaking.

Also, size matters. For example, a 1.4 carat stone will be noticeably cheaper than 1.56 carat stone yet visibly they will be nearly identical. There is definitely some money to be saved here. I think the stone I bought my wife is 1.34 carat or somewhere thereabouts.

Yep, you can get a huge discount for just a small reduction in carat.... also, white gold/yellow gold can have an effect on how yellow the stone looks.

another note, choose the stone individually, i got one with two inclusions, but they're right on top of eachother and right in the middle, so they're pretty hard to see with the naked eye, it's hard for me to see them anymore.... the location has a lot to do with it.

 

[sunzt]

See my posts from last year about my ring purchase. I used Jamesallen.com because you can actually see the diamond you are getting so you can examine how bad a flaw would look. Plus, you can get extra %/points cash back using credit card rewards sites

 

[Elbryn]

i cheaped out on the setting and spent almost all the budget on the stone itself.

get a GIA or AGS certified diamond to make sure you really get what you're paying for.

similar tactic i took. i bought the stone and a cheap setting, then let her pick a new setting for the stone based on her individual taste.

 

[Wreckem]

Yep, you can get a huge discount for just a small reduction in carat.... also, white gold/yellow gold can have an effect on how yellow the stone looks.

another note, choose the stone individually, i got one with two inclusions, but they're right on top of eachother and right in the middle, so they're pretty hard to see with the naked eye, it's hard for me to see them anymore.... the location has a lot to do with it.

I have an SI1 that is not only eye clean but extremely difficult to spot under 10x. An eye clean SI1 can save a ton of money.

 

[NutBucket]

As around a $30k+ stone it should.

Hint, I didn't pay nearly that much. Thank you blue nile!

 

[OlafSicky]

Don't get anyting below $15000 you will just look cheap and she will not accept.

 

[alkemyst]

Hint, I didn't pay nearly that much. Thank you blue nile!

That value has nothing to do with BlueNile, but when did you buy the diamond....the market fluctuates and without seeing the cert; color, size and clarity are meaningless.

 

[alkemyst]

I have an SI1 that is not only eye clean but extremely difficult to spot under 10x. An eye clean SI1 can save a ton of money.

If it's extremely difficult to spot under 10x and loose then it's not a SI1.

 

[alkemyst]

similar tactic i took. i bought the stone and a cheap setting, then let her pick a new setting for the stone based on her individual taste.

Except with gold pricing right now, there aren't really 'cheap' settings.

 

[alkemyst]

Another thing with diamond sizing is that the perfect sizes esp 1.0 carat carry a premium over say a .99 or a 1.1 diamond.

 

[NutBucket]

That value has nothing to do with BlueNile, but when did you buy the diamond....the market fluctuates and without seeing the cert; color, size and clarity are meaningless.

GIA cert, verified by a GIA certified appraiser. I bought it in Feb '09.

 

[Gibson486]

That value has nothing to do with BlueNile, but when did you buy the diamond....the market fluctuates and without seeing the cert; color, size and clarity are meaningless.

Yeah, it also does not help that BlueNile is one of the more expensive online vendors. Everything is about market fluctuation. I bought a H&A .91 ct RB diamond for 4.7K It now costs near $8k.

 

[Gibson486]

If it's extremely difficult to spot under 10x and loose then it's not a SI1.

Very True. SI1 should be fairly easy to catch with 10X. That said, sometimes it depends on what the mark is. Also, GIA is graded by humans. Everything has to be text book with them. If the person believes it's VS2, but the GIA book says it should be SI1, then it will be SI1. So, yeah, their can be error. It happens both ways, under graded and over graded. GIA rarely over grades, though.

 

[Wreckem]

If it's extremely difficult to spot under 10x and loose then it's not a SI1.

The AGS Cert says SI1.

The only inclusion is a grade making cloud. It has a giant cloud that isn't dense and doesn't effect performance. It is hard to spot under 10x. Clouds are based on how spread out and how dense they are , not how visible they are.

A cloud can be VS1(maybe vvs2) down to SI2 depending on how big or how dense the cloud is.

A VS2 grade making crystal that is made of black carbon will still be VS2 but will be easily spotted by the naked eye.

Clarity isn't as hard and fast as the grading appears. There is still some wiggle room. Is my diamond common? No. but they are easy to find if you use a higher end diamond seller who individually inspects all the diamonds he sells.

That said there is a possibility my diamond was mis-graded.

 

[Wreckem]

Hint, I didn't pay nearly that much. Thank you blue nile!

When did you buy it? What lab graded it? What are the cut/polish/symmetry grades? If its a round there are other things to consider? There are A LOT of different factors when determining the price of a diamond. Another thing to consider is the price of diamonds has skyrocketed by about 30% or more since last year because of a huge growing demand in India and China.

A E IF 1.3ct non H&A GIA excellent cut round goes goes for about $25k online right now, that would easily go for $40k at a retail store if you could find it. An E IF 1.3ct H&A AGS Triple 0 would be well over $30k online won't likely find it at retail unless at a independently owned highend/upscale boutique jewelry store. I base that on a 1ct F IF H&A is going for 22k and a 1ct D IF H&A is going for $36k. For shits and giggles a 2ct D IF H&A is going for $134k right now, a 3ct G VS1 is going for a $110k. I'd prefer the later.

Knock off about 30-35% and that would be what the same stones would have cost in late last year. If you bought a diamond late last year, or at the very beginning of this I would go get it appraised as your insurance policy probably doesn't cover it fully anymore.

Back to the OP. Some advice.

1. Cut is king, not size. My fiancee gets far more comments on her diamond than people she's knows with diamonds that are quite a bit larger but of lesser quality. Hers is a sparkly fireball in almost all lighting, theirs are lifeless in in comparison. There is a lot of stuff to learn. I'd say learn it.

2. Look at retail if you need to, but never buy retail. Buy online and go with a place like GoodOldGold(someone that specializes in cushions) if you are going with a cushion cut. If you were going with round. Hands down I'd go with Whiteflash.com or BrianGavinDiamonds.com. Winkjones.com is another good one, but I have never bought from them. None of these vendors will steer you wrong.

 

[edro]

I suggest you go shop together, assuming you have already talked about getting married.
If you are springing this question out of the blue, you should probably talk about marriage first.

When you shop, she will show you what she likes and hates.
At least you will get a shape/color she likes.

 

[alkemyst]

Keep in mine just being GIA or AGS certified means nothing but it was appraised by them.

The details are what's critical.

 

[alkemyst]

The AGS Cert says SI1.

The only inclusion is a grade making cloud. It has a giant cloud that isn't dense and doesn't effect performance. It is hard to spot under 10x. Clouds are based on how spread out and how dense they are , not how visible they are.

A cloud can be VS1(maybe vvs2) down to SI2 depending on how big or how dense the cloud is.

A VS2 grade making crystal that is made of black carbon will still be VS2 but will be easily spotted by the naked eye.

Clarity isn't as hard and fast as the grading appears. There is still some wiggle room. Is my diamond common? No. but they are easy to find if you use a higher end diamond seller who individually inspects all the diamonds he sells.

That said there is a possibility my diamond was mis-graded.

AGS is pretty accurate. If you can find the cloud easily as a layman it's more than likely SI...

While possible it may be borderline VS2, there is no way they are two full grades off. EGL I'd say much more possible...GIA and AGS not so much.

Also if the jeweler had any doubts they can contest the appraisal, it's in their best interest to do so if they feel it was misgraded.

 

[NutBucket]

When did you buy it? What lab graded it? What are the cut/polish/symmetry grades? If its a round there are other things to consider? There are A LOT of different factors when determining the price of a diamond. Another thing to consider is the price of diamonds has skyrocketed by about 30% or more since last year because of a huge growing demand in India and China.

A E IF 1.3ct non H&A GIA excellent cut round goes goes for about $25k online right now, that would easily go for $40k at a retail store if you could find it. An E IF 1.3ct H&A AGS Triple 0 would be well over $30k online won't likely find it at retail unless at a independently owned highend/upscale boutique jewelry store. I base that on a 1ct F IF H&A is going for 22k and a 1ct D IF H&A is going for $36k. For shits and giggles a 2ct D IF H&A is going for $134k right now, a 3ct G VS1 is going for a $110k. I'd prefer the later.

Knock off about 30-35% and that would be what the same stones would have cost in late last year. If you bought a diamond late last year, or at the very beginning of this I would go get it appraised as your insurance policy probably doesn't cover it fully anymore.

Not to derail the thread but this is very interesting. As stated earlier, I bought this stone in Feb '09. I have a GIA cert plus an in-person appraisal from a GIA certified appraiser.

It is a round stone. IIRC cut/polish/symmetry grades were excellent.

I'll have to look into getting it re-appraised. I think the current appraised value is in the $24k range.

 

[Wreckem]

AGS is pretty accurate. If you can find the cloud easily as a layman it's more than likely SI...

While possible it may be borderline VS2, there is no way they are two full grades off. EGL I'd say much more possible...GIA and AGS not so much.

Also if the jeweler had any doubts they can contest the appraisal, it's in their best interest to do so if they feel it was misgraded.

Nowhere have I said its two full grades off. It its off, its off by one. VS2 to SI1 gets murky, as I said before, inclusions are based off size and type of inclusion, not color or visibility(naked eye or loupe). Its common for it to be explained as such(easy to spot under 10x loupe, difficult, etc,) but thats not how its actually graded. If it was, then VS2s would never have eye visible inclusions, but that just is not the case.

My SI1 is a lot cleaner than a lot of VS2's I've seen, but I am not going to argue anymore. Theres no point, it has no bearing on this thread.

I will say again though, because it has bearing on the thread, you can find some really nice SI1s, and find some terrible VS2s and leave it at that. A great SI1 can save a lot of money, how much depends on ct weight.

 

[ichy]

My budget is $8k for the ring and band, though I wouldn't mind if it was closer to $6k.

Christ...

Get a $200 ring, save the money for a down payment on a house instead.

 

[Wreckem]

Not to derail the thread but this is very interesting. As stated earlier, I bought this stone in Feb '09. I have a GIA cert plus an in-person appraisal from a GIA certified appraiser.

It is a round stone. IIRC cut/polish/symmetry grades were excellent.

I'll have to look into getting it re-appraised. I think the current appraised value is in the $24k range.

I am assuming it is not one of their Signature stones. To replace your stone online would likely cost $28k in the current market. The retail replacement value used for insurance purposes would be several grand higher. If it is one of their signature stones replacing online would definitely be over $30k. So yeah, I would spend money to have it apprised and update your insurance policy.

Diamonds were at their lowest in 2005 and prices have more than doubled since then. While currently not at the highest prices ever(that would be in the 1980s), diamonds are spiking and are going to continue to go up because of growing demand in China and India coupled with no new/very few new mines with some older mines wrapping up operations.