Germany versus Republicans

[Nebor]

primarily nato support troops and troops that are deployed to the middle east. no occupying troops. the mashall plan ran out a decade ago and the US had to withdraw all related troops.

You are smoking crack. There are 3 Army combat brigades in Germany. That's around 4,000-5,000 people per brigade. Then there's all the Air Force people there, with strategic bombers, fighters and nuclear weapons squadrons across the country.

 

[BoT]

"NON-Occupying" troops and the marshall plan was very much intact until almost 2000. it's was revised and renamed. it's was still the marshall plan, very much so.
http://histories.cambridge.org/extract?id=chol9780521837194_CHOL9780521837194A009

Few US government programs have had so good a press as the Marshall Plan, which delivered some $12.3 billion in aid to Europe between 1948 and the end of 1951. The fiftieth anniversary of the plan, in 1997, produced a flood of studies and conference reports that all shared the view, as one Marshall Plan official put it in his memoir, “that Marshall Plan dollars did save the world.

there are only 56 bases left of which half has already been scheduled to close. there were lots more, trust me. NATO support, IFOR support

germany was under U.S. protect because of the marshall plan. the marshall plan also restricted germany to have certain weapons and artillery. not the case anymore.

 

[Nebor]

Also, unlike US bases almost everywhere else in the world, the ones in Germany are sovereign US territory. We own the land.

 

[zsdersw]

What about Norway's economy? Germany's economy looks right-wing compared to Norway.

Disclaimer: I'm of Norwegian ancestry

 

[JTsyo]

they've done a good job with unemployment too. Especially if you look back to the mid 2000s and see where they started.

 

[Abwx]

What about Norway's economy? Germany's economy looks right-wing compared to Norway.

Disclaimer: I'm of Norwegian ancestry

With about 120bn$/year of oil production for a mere 5 millions
inhabitants , Norway is somewhat of a special case...

Still , 80% of the people there think that wealth is unequally
distributed.

 

[Abwx]

Also, unlike US bases almost everywhere else in the world, the ones in Germany are sovereign US territory. We own the land.

Excluding France who signed a peace treaty with Germany ,
the US , Russia and UK have not done so and according to
the existing status they can invade this country if they feel
threatened , without any ultimatum...

I guess than neither the US nor the UK are really democratic
countries....

 

[JockoJohnson]

The point of the OP was that the Republicans are saying there is only one way to improve the US economy and that any other way will lead to collapse. Hence the example of Germany to show that there are other ways.

Yes, there are other ways. Can't argue with that. The Republicans most certainly DO NOT have all the answers. But the OP completely ignores a few facts that others have pointed out--pride in their country, homogenous culture, etc.

Wouldn't want to interrupt the circle jerk going on here but the two can't honestly be compared. I do agree with bank regulation, some form of universal healthcare, manufacturing base in one's own country, good unions (not the shitty ones that are in the US), and especially deportation of illegals instead of letting them stay and leeching off the system.

Germany has many good concepts put into place, all of which cannot work here because we are a nation of entitled, whiny little bitches. We can't stand to pay a penny more in taxes. We feel bad for the lazy fucks that refuse to do anything to make their lives better so we compensate by giving them free money--no strings attached.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, there are other ways. Can't argue with that. The Republicans most certainly DO NOT have all the answers. But the OP completely ignores a few facts that others have pointed out--pride in their country, homogenous culture, etc.

Wouldn't want to interrupt the circle jerk going on here but the two can't honestly be compared. I do agree with bank regulation, some form of universal healthcare, manufacturing base in one's own country, good unions (not the shitty ones that are in the US), and especially deportation of illegals instead of letting them stay and leeching off the system.

Germany has many good concepts put into place, all of which cannot work here because we are a nation of entitled, whiny little bitches. We can't stand to pay a penny more in taxes. We feel bad for the lazy fucks that refuse to do anything to make their lives better so we compensate by giving them free money--no strings attached.

Who do you think we give free money to with no strings attached, and what percentage of our budget/economy do you think that free money is?

 

[fskimospy]

they've done a good job with unemployment too. Especially if you look back to the mid 2000s and see where they started.

Germany is currently benefiting from what amounts to little more than currency manipulation. It's also a significant contributing factor to why the Eurozone is melting down.

 

[freegeeks]

Germany is currently benefiting from what amounts to little more than currency manipulation. It's also a significant contributing factor to why the Eurozone is melting down.

LOL, they are one of the biggest exporters to BRIC countries
they make stuff that other countries want and need, simple as that

 

[JockoJohnson]

Who do you think we give free money to with no strings attached, and what percentage of our budget/economy do you think that free money is?

Welfare recipients. No idea what the percentage is, don't like it even if it was 0.001%. Free money to those that cannot work due to disability is one thing, having 10 kids and no baby-daddy present in the house is another. I hate lazy, good-for-nothing fucks. There are no excuses. I came from a shitty background and made it a point to get out of it and make sure my kids never have to go through it. Sure, my story is anecdotal but there are way too many that just sit and take the money.

Sorry for side-tracking the thread but I can't stand welfare in this country as it is now.

I did see something encouraging in USA Today the other day about states restricting what welfare money can be spent on -- tobacco, alcohol. It's a start but this should have been in there since welfare was invented.

 

[rudder]

Germany has strong financial controls on its banks and did not have a housing bubble like we did, yet their banks continued to prosper.

Germany has universal health care that is remarkably efficient, and at least as high a quality as the US. Yet it doesn't bust their budget.

German unions have far more power than in the US. Yet the German unions and the corporations work together to keep jobs in Germany and keep costs down.

German CEO's make far less money than US CEO's yet they still run efficient and productive companies. And still create jobs.

Germany provides a social safety net that puts the US to shame. And yet it has a balanced budget.

Germany has the strictest environmental laws of almost any country, yet they also manage to keep their factories going.

Germany pours money into its educational system and turns out world class engineers by bushel. While having the strongest educational unions in Europe.

I can also ride a bicycle to a market in Germany and not have to lock it with a $50 titanium lock hoping it is still there when I get done shopping. You also do not pass five fast food restaurants on the way to the store.

You can't compare numbers without comparing cultures. The U.S. is not Germany. The Washington DC school system pours money into its school at a rate of $17,000 per student per year... how to DC schools compare to the rest of the nation?

It is neat to post these kinds of threads but basically they are meaningless unless you factor in an untold number of variables.

 

[ShawnD1]

Yes, there are other ways. Can't argue with that. The Republicans most certainly DO NOT have all the answers. But the OP completely ignores a few facts that others have pointed out--pride in their country, homogenous culture, etc.

Republicans say this about every country in the entire world and they're wrong almost every time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany

In 2008 18.4% of Germans of any age group and 30% of German children had at least one parent born abroad.
....
Germany is host to the third-highest number of international migrants worldwide,[8] around 20% of Germany's population do not hold a German passport or are descendents of immigrants.

A little further down on that page

According to organizational reportings based on projections in 2008 about 34.1% Germans have no registered religious denomination. According to a poll by Der Spiegel magazine, 45% believe in God, and just a quarter in Jesus Christ.[48]

I wonder if there's any correlation between A) believing there is no god to magically solve all of your problems and B) actually trying to solve problems

 

[Abwx]

I wonder if there's any correlation between A) believing there is no god to magically solve all of your problems and B) actually trying to solve problems

For them religion is less important than their country ,

Deutschland uber alles.....

 

[amyklai]

I wonder if there's any correlation between A) believing there is no god to magically solve all of your problems and B) actually trying to solve problems

Having a rational approach certainly helps.

But when talking about Germany and religions, you need to keep in mind that Hitler made a pact with the Vatican in 1933 ("Reichskonkordat") which allows the churches to raise a "church tax" which amounts of 8% - 9% of your income tax.

This law was never revoked and still is in effect today, so for a non-believing German it's much more attractive to revoke his / her church membership than for a "inactive believer" who lives in another country, because it may mean saving a few hundred or thousand Euros per year.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Republicans say this about every country in the entire world and they're wrong almost every time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany


A little further down on that page

I wonder if there's any correlation between A) believing there is no god to magically solve all of your problems and B) actually trying to solve problems

Point well taken. Then how is their multiculturalism? Do they have groups of people wanting to keep to their original culture or do they assimilate to the German culture? Not sure I phrased that last question right but hopefully you get the point.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Abwx

As usual , whatever the thread and the subject....

...you don't get it, I know.
How is Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter like this thread? Because it's a mash up with little to no logical basis in reality. The demographic can't be compared, the legal basis for the economy, the culture, a lot of important things which do not lend themselves to this kind of comparison. To do so would result in fantasy fiction.

 

[Abwx]

...you don't get it, I know.
How is Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter like this thread?

It just happen that some people think that we have
the same things in the head , wich is never true....

Because it's a mash up with little to no logical basis in reality. The demographic can't be compared, the legal basis for the economy, the culture, a lot of important things which do not lend themselves to this kind of comparison. To do so would result in fantasy fiction.

Agree on this point , i also pointed , in another thread ,
that the nations s different historical paths did yield very
different mentalities despite some apparent mutual understandings
wich are no more than egoistic interests in disguise.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Point well taken. Then how is their multiculturalism? Do they have groups of people wanting to keep to their original culture or do they assimilate to the German culture?

Why would someone have to abandon their culture to move to another country? Obviously, in most countries you HAVE to learn the language but casting off your entire culture just to live on another piece of dirt is absurd.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Why would someone have to abandon their culture to move to another country? Obviously, in most countries you HAVE to learn the language but casting off your entire culture just to live on another piece of dirt is absurd.

Whoa, never said or intended for people to drop their entire culture. They should be able to make the two work together -- it doesn't need to be one or the other.