German Critics SLAM new US Embassy in Berlin!

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
You have to keep in mind that in the wake of German unification, Berlin has become somewhat of an architectural playground where the best designers from around the world come to play. As such Berlin is becoming a unique city that "looks different around every corner". Germans are also somewhat proud that government buildings, both new and old, have been constructed or renovated using lots of glass. Take Norman Foster's "new" Reichstag building as an example. The glass dome was added to allow ordinary people to literally be "on top of" government. It has since become one of the most popular tourist attractions in Europe. The dome also symbolizes transparency in government as visitors can look down into the plenary chamber, even when in session. (Given their history you can understand why they emphasize these themes.) And finally, in keeping with their status as THE world leader in environmental protection and "green" technologies, the dome also allows fresh light and air to enter the chamber.

In short, Berliners have become pretty religious about their architecture. So they are of course a little pissed that the USA just built Fort Knox next to the Brandenburg Gate. It would be like the Germans building something almost resembling a prison next to the Lincoln Memorial.

To quote the article:

In its Monday edition, the Berlin newspaper Tagesspiegel describes the building as a "triumph of banality" and a "barely disguised castle pretending to be a contemporary building."

"The US Embassy will be the opposite of what American embassies, consulates and cultural centers once stood for," the newspaper writes. "The foreign representations of the US are no longer marked by inviting openness, but instead by rejection and control. ... The fact that this situation is given concrete form -- in Berlin of all places, the city that owes its current freedom and reunification in a large part to the decades-long commitment of the US -- is a bitter fact that the stage-managed jocularity of the coming opening celebrations cannot conceal."

 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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lol, interesting, and ironic. A little over half a century after we vanquish the Nazis, we build a structure that would make them proud.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
If I could have Obama's ear, it would be to suggest to him that his first foreign policy act as President be to demolish the building and rebuild it in the spirit of openness, transparency, and change! :)

It would be a HUGE step!
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
7
81
This seems like an extremely silly thing to complain about. The U.S. is bad because they torture people? No. Because they engage in unjustifiable wars? No. Well, why then?

Because they built a building that looks like a fort.

*Face palm*. It's people bickering about stuff like this that distracts from the real problems with this country. Oh well, people need silly stuff to argue about, I suppose. Then again...seriously??? The looks of a building??? *shakes head to make sure I'm really awake*
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
17,020
5,083
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Originally posted by: extra
This seems like an extremely silly thing to complain about. The U.S. is bad because they torture people? No. Because they engage in unjustifiable wars? No. Well, why then?

Because they built a building that looks like a fort.

*Face palm*. It's people bickering about stuff like this that distracts from the real problems with this country. Oh well, people need silly stuff to argue about, I suppose. Then again...seriously??? The looks of a building??? *shakes head to make sure I'm really awake*

Did you even read the article?

Have you ever been to Berlin?

Have you ever seen the Brandenburg gate?


Berliners have every right to express their displeasure at this architectural wart.



I guess your point is "don't complain about the insensitivity of the U.S. in matters smaller than our use of torture or starting pre-emptive wars?"

Sorry, small thing matter, too.
 

mxyzptlk

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2008
1,888
0
0
Originally posted by: feralkid

Sorry, small thing matter, too.

Not sure who said it first but I live my life by two simple rules:

1. Don't sweat the small shit.
2. It's all small shit.

Ze Germans have a right to complain about the design of a building in their country. We Americans have just as much of a right to tell them to fuck off, we've got more important shit going on right now.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
If I could have Obama's ear, it would be to suggest to him that his first foreign policy act as President be to demolish the building and rebuild it in the spirit of openness, transparency, and change! :)

It would be a HUGE step!

You want the first thing a new President does to be to order a $130 million overseas embassy torn down so a prettier one can be built in its place?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
The embassy design is a direct reaction to the Africa embassy bombings.

Robert Stern submitted a design during the competition and it too was built very much like a fortress. Thick walls, bomb proof glass etc.

The people who designed and built it are worried about practical security matters. The people who are complaining about it are worried that it isn't pretty enough...
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
17,020
5,083
136
Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Originally posted by: feralkid

Sorry, small thing matter, too.

Not sure who said it first but I live my life by two simple rules:

1. Don't sweat the small shit.
2. It's all small shit.

Ze Germans have a right to complain about the design of a building in their country. We Americans have just as much of a right to tell them to fuck off, we've got more important shit going on right now.

Kind of like, "sorry to piss you off, friend; but go to hell; we're too busy pissing off the rest of the world to care?"
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The embassy design is a direct reaction to the Africa embassy bombings.

Robert Stern submitted a design during the competition and it too was built very much like a fortress. Thick walls, bomb proof glass etc.

The people who designed and built it are worried about practical security matters. The people who are complaining about it are worried that it isn't pretty enough...

Buildings can be designed to be both secure AND aesthetically non-conflicting with their surroundings.

It's called good architecture.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,779
48,467
136
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The embassy design is a direct reaction to the Africa embassy bombings.

Robert Stern submitted a design during the competition and it too was built very much like a fortress. Thick walls, bomb proof glass etc.

The people who designed and built it are worried about practical security matters. The people who are complaining about it are worried that it isn't pretty enough...

Buildings can be designed to be both secure AND aesthetically non-conflicting with their surroundings.

It's called good architecture.

By secure they mean resistant to RPGs, truck bombs, and artillery shells.

Ideally you have a perimeter to keep things like that away from the building itself (defense in depth), but being in the middle of Berlin that wasn't possible. The only alternative is to beef up the building at the cost of aesthetics.
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
7
81
Originally posted by: feralkid
I guess your point is "don't complain about the insensitivity of the U.S. in matters smaller than our use of torture or starting pre-emptive wars?"

You know good and well that isn't even remotely close to what my comment was intended to mean. :) I am simply saying that it is silly to complain about a building being "ugly"...Sure, they have every right to complain about it, but it is not productive:

Stuff like this bothers me because it gets eaten up by the crazy right wingers as "see, everyone just wants to bash America, screw them foreigners!" fodder. This reminds me of "freedom toast" instead of french toast, lol. Anyway~ I will exit the thread~

From the article:

"The American Embassy does not reflect the image of a country that was once a melting pot for immigrants from around the world, a place for new beginnings and reinventing oneself. The embassy represents a country which has been traumatized by 9/11 and the consequences of globalization -- a nation which is now so protected by armor that it can no longer see the world."

Or maybe the Embassy was just built that way out of necessity, code, and compromises--and it doesn't reflect anything other than that.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
17,020
5,083
136
Originally posted by: extra


You know good and well that isn't even remotely close to what my comment was intended to mean. :) I am simply saying that it is silly to complain about a building being "ugly"...Sure, they have every right to complain about it, but it is not productive:

Stuff like this bothers me because it gets eaten up by the crazy right wingers as "see, everyone just wants to bash America, screw them foreigners!" fodder. This reminds me of "freedom toast" instead of french toast, lol. Anyway~ I will exit the thread~



O.K., so the Germans have a right to complain that this building's design sucks noodles; but please don't, because you may give fodder to our crazy right wingers?

Is that right?
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
The Germans should replace the German Embassy in the US with a concentration camp. That'd show 'em.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Events since one bright summer day in
Beirut have mandated such changes, feel free to discuss this design with those groups.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
After 9/11, everything changed. America will become like imperial China, and regress inside.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
17,020
5,083
136
Originally posted by: lupi
Events since one bright summer day in
Beirut have mandated such changes, feel free to discuss this design with those groups.

Actually, this tragedy occurred in the Spring, not Summer.

Dates ARE important to those concerned.

:(
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: extra
This seems like an extremely silly thing to complain about. The U.S. is bad because they torture people? No. Because they engage in unjustifiable wars? No. Well, why then?

Because they built a building that looks like a fort.

*Face palm*. It's people bickering about stuff like this that distracts from the real problems with this country. Oh well, people need silly stuff to argue about, I suppose. Then again...seriously??? The looks of a building??? *shakes head to make sure I'm really awake*

Did you even read the article?

Have you ever been to Berlin?

Have you ever seen the Brandenburg gate?


Berliners have every right to express their displeasure at this architectural wart.



I guess your point is "don't complain about the insensitivity of the U.S. in matters smaller than our use of torture or starting pre-emptive wars?"

Sorry, small thing matter, too.

Yes they have the right to express their displeasure but not at the US!

They should be mad at the German Goverment officials that approved the building plans in the first place.

 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Berliners have every right to express their displeasure at this architectural wart. I guess your point is "don't complain about the insensitivity of the U.S. in matters smaller than our use of torture or starting pre-emptive wars?"

You need to turn down the outrage meter down from 11.

The Reichstag building looks like someone landed a Disney attraction on top of a historic building...I understand the symbolic theme they are going for, but come on. I have been to Berlin, Frankfurt and a number of other German cities that have seen a boom of development in recent years...and guess what...they really like their glass and exposed beams.

In most of these cities, there are also quite a few rather boring and not particularly inspired "boxes" that were built just after WW2. The new American embassy looks like much of the buildings we built in Germany during the 1950s.

I think people are reading into this too much...we built an ugly building in a city that now prides itself as architecturally ambitious.

Sometimes though, a building is just a building.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
17,020
5,083
136
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Berliners have every right to express their displeasure at this architectural wart. I guess your point is "don't complain about the insensitivity of the U.S. in matters smaller than our use of torture or starting pre-emptive wars?"

You need to turn down the outrage meter down from 11.

The Reichstag building looks like someone landed a Disney attraction on top of a historic building...I understand the symbolic theme they are going for, but come on. I have been to Berlin, Frankfurt and a number of other German cities that have seen a boom of development in recent years...and guess what...they really like their glass and exposed beams.

In most of these cities, there are also quite a few rather boring and not particularly inspired "boxes" that were built just after WW2. The new American embassy looks like much of the buildings we built in Germany during the 1950s.

I think people are reading into this too much...we built an ugly building in a city that now prides itself as architecturally ambitious.

Sometimes though, a building is just a building.

I'm not "outraged." I was responding to Extra's lame post about how the Germans shouldn't criticize the U.S. because the neocons will become upset.

He's the one equivocating torture, etc. (pathetic, I know).

It's an ugly building...people will bitch, that's their right, end of story.

 

mxyzptlk

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2008
1,888
0
0
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Originally posted by: feralkid

Sorry, small thing matter, too.

Not sure who said it first but I live my life by two simple rules:

1. Don't sweat the small shit.
2. It's all small shit.

Ze Germans have a right to complain about the design of a building in their country. We Americans have just as much of a right to tell them to fuck off, we've got more important shit going on right now.

Kind of like, "sorry to piss you off, friend; but go to hell; we're too busy pissing off the rest of the world to care?"

Well I meant it more like, "sorry, we're too busy putting out this fire to help you move your couch.. Lets hang out next weekend for drinks on me?"



edit: to further clarify: Public opinion of our global politics could be better served by getting rid of gitmo for example than by sprucing up an embassy in Berlin.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
We learned how skewed the german's priorities were after Munich. That they should be upset an embassy building has the temerity to protect its staff at the cost of "pretty glass" isn't surprising.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
17,020
5,083
136
Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Originally posted by: feralkid

Sorry, small thing matter, too.

Not sure who said it first but I live my life by two simple rules:

1. Don't sweat the small shit.
2. It's all small shit.

Ze Germans have a right to complain about the design of a building in their country. We Americans have just as much of a right to tell them to fuck off, we've got more important shit going on right now.

Kind of like, "sorry to piss you off, friend; but go to hell; we're too busy pissing off the rest of the world to care?"

Well I meant it more like, "sorry, we're too busy putting out this fire to help you move your couch.. Lets hang out next weekend for drinks on me?"

Fair enough.
;)