Georgia & illegals- self ownage

[senseamp]

Maybe Georgia can force Medicare recipients to work in the fields.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Well unemployment is technically your money that you are entitled to since its insurance for you. Is it ok for a car insurance company make you perform manual labor in order for them to process your claim and pay you back for your totaled car? And is it ok to force manual labor for some "free" money but not other "free" money?

That's insurance. Is welfare considered insurance? Are student grants considered insurance? If it's not insurance then do something for it. Medicaid, Medicare, SS, Unemployment--I would consider them insurance. Please don't tell me you are so dense as to not recognize the difference. I know you are playing word games here. Stop with the BS and the slippery slope shit.

What do people need to do to get welfare and student grants? People qualify for student grants because they are too poor to pay for the college of their choosing. Good -- do some labor to at least receive it. If you are injured and cannot physically work, I can understand welfare. If you are just a fucking retard that likes to pop out babies to get on welfare, do some work for it -- stay at home and lick envelopes, I don't care...just do something for the money.

 

[her209]

That's insurance. Is welfare considered insurance? Are student grants considered insurance? If it's not insurance then do something for it. Medicaid, Medicare, SS, Unemployment--I would consider them insurance. Please don't tell me you are so dense as to not recognize the difference. I know you are playing word games here. Stop with the BS and the slippery slope shit.

What do people need to do to get welfare and student grants? People qualify for student grants because they are too poor to pay for the college of their choosing. Good -- do some labor to at least receive it. If you are injured and cannot physically work, I can understand welfare. If you are just a fucking retard that likes to pop out babies to get on welfare, do some work for it -- stay at home and lick envelopes, I don't care...just do something for the money.

So you agree with chucky's idea or you don't? Because it sounded like you agreed with it.

 

[Triumph]

Moralizing and innuendo aside, that won't pick Georgia farmers' crops at all, now will it? But I'm sure you'd like to imagine it will, and apparently have no trouble projected what you'd be doing on unemployment with what other might do...



What's brilliant about screwing yourself, making your farmers less competitive? reducing harvests? Should we segue into some grapes of wrath scenario?

Look for Georgia farmers to do their best to avoid the new statutes, and for law enforcement to do the same, too. Well, if migrants will come back at all- they have enough insecurities w/o having to deal with that.



How would you presume to have the vaguest idea what I want other than by imagination?

Nice to see that you backed silently away from the whole social services rant... wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that, of course... It being a cornerstone of self righteousness & Faith on the part of Righties...

I thought you were for Unions? Why are you trying to exploit illegal immigrants and pay them substandard wages? Shouldn't those jobs be given to members of an American farm crop pickers union, that fights for living wages and benefits for the working class?

 

[First]

To be fair this would happen whether they were illegals or not. You can't outlaw any particular sort of labor that one industry or another depends on without a little short-term pain. However, to suggest that Georgia's agriculture industry will survive long-term with this labor shortage as soon as their local citizens start taking these manual labor jobs.....well that requires a major change in attitude as Americans won't do that sort of backbreaking labor without higher wages, better benefits and that includes worker's comp and health care. Sorry but that's going to raise the price of produce. You can argue Americans will do these jobs at some point...but without evidence it's a baseless statement that is based on nothing but hope. Illegals keep produce and other products low just like outsourced Chinese/Indian labor keeps them low. Clothes, computers, 24/7 credit card or tech support, etc. This has the same impact as illegal labor here in the U.S.

Also, there is still no evidence illegals take more in revenue than they produce. This has been discussed ad nauseam so I can only wonder why this is continually brought up when illegals consistently pay sales taxes (without exception and generally in very high sales tax states like CA and NY) and some combination of property and federal taxes (unknown %'s at this point).

 

[her209]

Also, there is still no evidence illegals take more in revenue than they produce. This has been discussed ad nauseam so I can only wonder why this is continually brought up when illegals consistently pay sales taxes (without exception and generally in very high sales tax states like CA and NY) and some combination of property and federal taxes (unknown %'s at this point).

I don't dispute that illegals pay taxes directly or indirectly, but I could argue that I pay uninsured motorist coverage and its mostly due to illegal immigrants driving around illegally. And when they cause an accident, they hit and run and if its bad enough, flee the country. Those types of costs aren't really included but its a cost to me even if I never utilize it.

 

[JockoJohnson]

So you agree with chucky's idea or you don't? Because it sounded like you agreed with it.

I agree with your idea (I know you said it was a slippery slope), not so much Chucky's. I am sure people are abusing UE but as long as government keeps extending, keep on collecting. Your idea is much better. For those programs that aren't insurance related, make them work for it if they are able-bodied.

And please, correct me if I am wrong about welfare and grants. I just don't see them as insurance. I know part of our tax dollars go towards them but in a different way then us paying for SS or Medicare.

 

[First]

I don't dispute that illegals pay taxes directly or indirectly, but I could argue that I pay uninsured motorist coverage and its mostly due to illegal immigrants driving around illegally.And when they cause an accident, they hit and run and if its bad enough, flee the country. Those types of costs aren't really included but its a cost to me even if I never utilize it.

I'm sure illegals increase car insurance costs...but if I had to bet I'd bet it was extremely small. Certainly not enough to make any dent in the taxes they pay.

 

[dmcowen674]

Americans did it to themselves, with their race to the bottom mentality.

They don't complain that they got 2 weeks vacation, they complain that someone got 3. I don't shit on Americans in general, I shit on stupid rednecks who think their ticket up is to put others, who are just trying to make ends meet, down.

Well, they put illegals down with this new law, great, now step in where they left off and start picking veggies.

Hey, Georgia is controlled by Rich Religious Republicans.

Republicans did this, they are the ones advocating the race to the bottom, not Democrats.

 

[WelshBloke]

If wages rise to attract more legal workers what's to stop producers south of the boarder undercutting American farmers by using all the illegals that have been deported?

 

[senseamp]

If wages rise to attract more legal workers what's to stop producers south of the boarder undercutting American farmers by using all the illegals that have been deported?

Yep, the same party pushing these anti-illegal laws are also for free trade. Good luck with that. Next couple years may be a great time to buy farmland in Georgia with the farmers unable to pick their crops going bankrupt. Of course that assumes Georgia Republicans will eventually come to their senses, and live in the real world.

 

[Generator]

Stupid rednecks, get your lazy butts out in the fields and pick the produce so my groceries stay cheap. You wanted Americans doing these jobs, now get out there and do them.

Unlikely. In the hundreds of years of this country existence I don't think the white southerner has ever show any inclination for hard work. The blacks built the south, made it rich. Now with the Mexicans gone the free market will be unleashed with no mercy.

 

[Fern]

According to many economists and studies, including one from the respected Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce.

See above. Low wages aren't a neccessity for agriculture to be profitable.

The farmers in GA just need to tap into a temporary labor force. In France, students are used for harvesty grapes for the vineyard. There is no reason GA farmers can't do something similar.

Keep in mind that many crops are machine harvested. I don't why see machines cannot be developed for some of these crops that are now hand-harvested. E.g., olives used to be only hand-harvested but not so long ago machines were developed to do it.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Unlikely. In the hundreds of years of this country existence I don't think the white southerner has ever show any inclination for hard work. The blacks built the south, made it rich. Now with the Mexicans gone the free market will be unleashed with no mercy.

You're a complete idot and know nothing of what you speak.

Fern

 

[Jaskalas]

Earth to farmers... pay a decent wage.

 

[Generator]

There is no reason GA farmers can't do something similar.

When these farmers started taking on Mexican labor there was no more room for reason. Surely not all of these farms operated on a slave wage? Why are you worried about winners and losers? Hope that ankle is all right, jumping of the free market wagon can be tricky.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Also, there is still no evidence illegals take more in revenue than they produce. This has been discussed ad nauseam so I can only wonder why this is continually brought up when illegals consistently pay sales taxes (without exception and generally in very high sales tax states like CA and NY) and some combination of property and federal taxes (unknown %'s at this point).

You don't need a PHD to figure out that they take in far more in services then generate from sales taxes and the like.

1. At minimum wage you're looking at something like $16k income per year.

2. It's common knowledge that many of these worker send money back to Mexico or save it for purchasing a home or farm upon their return. Even so, assuming they sepnt every dime on taxable purchases at 8% you're only looking at about $1,300. This of course is far higher than what can be expected to be actually recieved in sale staxes, groceries are often taxed at a far lower rate - in CA they aren't even subject to sales tax from the info I'm looking at.

3. The cost to send one child to public school is about $10K - 20K (depending on whose info you belive) per year.

How many children do these families typically have?

4. Add in Medicaid, welfare, WIC, food stamps etc.

If low wage immigrants brought in more revenue than they consumed the USA would be sitting fat & happy given the huge recent influx, and states like CA etc wouldn't be having such budget problems.

Coomon sense should indicate a base of low income wage earners cannot support top level services. If they could there would be no 3rd world countries.

Fern

 

[senseamp]

You don't need a PHD to figure out that they take in far more in services then generate from sales taxes and the like.

1. At minimum wage you're looking at something like $16k income per year.

2. It's common knowledge that many of these worker send money back to Mexico or save it for purchasing a home or farm upon their return. Even so, assuming they sepnt every dime on taxable purchases at 8% you're only looking at about $1,300. This of course is far higher than what can be expected to be actually recieved in sale staxes, groceries are often taxed at a far lower rate - in CA they aren't even subject to sales tax from the info I'm looking at.

3. The cost to send one child to public school is about $10K - 20K (depending on whose info you belive) per year.

How many children do these families typically have?

4. Add in Medicaid, welfare, WIC, food stamps etc.

If low wage immigrants brought in more revenue than they consumed the USA would be sitting fat & happy given the huge recent influx, and states like CA etc wouldn't be having such budget problems.

Coomon sense should indicate a base of low income wage earners cannot support top level services. If they could there would be no 3rd world countries.

Fern

You are not accounting for the profit made off these workers' labor by the farm owners, food retailers, etc, and the taxes paid from those profits. You are not accounting for the savings in the food prices passed on to consumers, which offset the taxes that pay for the services you mention. Tax savings would mainly go to the top bracket earners, while extra food costs would hit everyone, and low income families especially hard.

 

[Fern]

You are not accounting for the profit made off these workers' labor by the farm owners, food retailers, etc, and the taxes paid from those profits. You are not accounting for the savings in the food prices passed on to consumers, which offset the taxes that pay for the services you mention. Tax savings would mainly go to the top bracket earners, while extra food costs would hit everyone, and low income families especially hard.

Did you miss the part about wages only accounting for about 6% of food/produce costs?

Furthermore, only some crops need manual harvesting. Much of our foodstuff would not be effected.

Fern

 

[WelshBloke]

Did you miss the part about wages only accounting for about 6% of food/produce costs?

Furthermore, only some crops need manual harvesting. Muych of our foodstuff would not be effected.

Fern

Yeah but thats at the pay levels now isnt it?

If they have to pay a lot more, and I'm thinking they will to get legal workers, then wont that %age go up quite a lot?

 

[senseamp]

Did you miss the part about wages only accounting for about 6% of food/produce costs?

Furthermore, only some crops need manual harvesting. Muych of our foodstuff would not be effected.

Fern

6% of total food costs, but not necessarily 6% of specific food costs that require manual labor, like fruits and vegetables. So what you are going to get is poor people being less able to afford healthy food. Did you account for the increased health costs of that? I am guessing not.

 

[spacejamz]

You are not accounting for the profit made off these workers' labor by the farm owners, food retailers, etc, and the taxes paid from those profits. You are not accounting for the savings in the food prices passed on to consumers, which offset the taxes that pay for the services you mention. Tax savings would mainly go to the top bracket earners, while extra food costs would hit everyone, and low income families especially hard.

There is no way in hell these amounts are you talking about will offset the ER and medical costs, incarceration/legal costs and educational (free lunches/bi lingual text books/teachers/etc) they drain off the system...

If you want to play your little game, how much does it cost the US citizen waiting in emergency rooms because they are all tied up treating illegals? In Dallas, ER wait times can be as much as 24 hours now.... What about the price to the quality of education to children of legal citizens who have rightfully paid their property taxes (because they are not cramming 3, 4 or more families into a single home). Money that should have been spent on little Johhny or Jane is now split between Johnny/Jane and Jose/Juanita.

I guess it is just a coincidence to you that budgets for hospitals and schools in border states are so far in the red because of the free services that are given to illegals...

 

[Fern]

Yeah but thats at the pay levels now isnt it?

If they have to pay a lot more, and I'm thinking they will to get legal workers, then wont that %age go up quite a lot?

A head of lettuce costs about $1 where I live.

If the cost of labor is 6%, or $.06 then doubling wages would mean lettuce would go up to $1.06. And that's way too high. It assumes the $1 is what the farmer receives, when in fact they get faaaaar less from the distributer that they sell to than you'll ever pay in the grocery store.

Fern

 

[senseamp]

There is no way in hell these amounts are you talking about will offset the ER and medical costs, incarceration/legal costs and educational (free lunches/bi lingual text books/teachers/etc) they drain off the system...

If you want to play your little game, how much does it cost the US citizen waiting in emergency rooms because they are all tied up treating illegals? In Dallas, ER wait times can be as much as 24 hours now.... What about the price to the quality of education to children of legal citizens who have rightfully paid their property taxes (because they are not cramming 3, 4 or more families into a single home). Money that should have been spent on little Johhny or Jane is now split between Johnny/Jane and Jose/Juanita.

I guess it is just a coincidence to you that budgets for hospitals and schools in border states are so far in the red because of the free services that are given to illegals...

Are these budgets in the black in non-border states?

 

[senseamp]

A head of lettuce costs about $1 where I live.

If the cost of labor is 6%, or $.06 then doubling wages would mean lettuce would go up to $1.06. And that's way too high. It assumes the $1 is what the farmer receives, when in fact they get faaaaar less from the distributer that they sell to than you'll ever pay in the grocery store.

Fern

Cost of labor is 6% AVERAGE for ALL produce, if we believe your number. Noone said it was 6% for lettuce. Also, markup is going to be added to the cost of labor increase, so the price increase passed on to consumer is going to be higher than just the cost of labor increase.