Georgia & illegals- self ownage

[Jhhnn]

If you add up all the illegal pay, plus all the social services they suck up, plus all the additional kids they pop out, who all will have more kids, and so on, thereby further exacerbating our growing population related problems, I'm sure employing our own native americans (the ones that are of course native at this time, and not the ones that we wiped out 150-200 years ago) would be far better.

So, uhh, what kind of social services do you think migrant farm workers actually suck up, anyway, other than going to the emergency room if badly injured or desperately ill?

They're completely off the grid- they don't exist in any official sort of way at all.

Georgia Repubs, in their eagerness to pander to sentiment such as your own, have now damaged a major sector of their own economy. And, for sure, it's unlikely that their sister states like Florida, Alabama & so forth will follow their example any time RSN. Why should they? They see the wonderful things it's doing for Georgia, and they get the bonus of having more migrants to work for them, even cheaper than before.

And, uhh, how are unemployed people supposed to look for work when they're picking rutabagas out in the middle of nowhere, anyway?

 

[chucky2]

They'll only be working 4 hours a day or so, the other time they can be "looking for work", which we both/all know means, sitting at home or at the bar doing nothing.

I hope a.) Georgia does exactly what I suggested, b.) other states see the brilliancy of it, c.) other states do the same thing, just better coordinated, and d.) we go through the "growing" pains of getting un-illegally invaded in the least costly way as possible.

For sure the status quo, which is I'm sure what you want (or even better, grant as many can show up here citizenship, amirite yet again???), is not tenable. While this wasn't coordinated well at all, the sentiment is spot on. Rather have this than what you want, that's for d@mn sure...

Chuck

 

[Infohawk]

Stupid rednecks, get your lazy butts out in the fields and pick the produce so my groceries stay cheap. You wanted Americans doing these jobs, now get out there and do them.

Why do you like illegals more than Americans? Or is that not the case? Because I always see you bending over backwards to defend illegals and here you're shitting on "stupid rednecks." Is it because illegals are poor? Because they break the law? Because you think they vote Democrat? What is it?

 

[crownjules]

Maybe this will demonstrate to DC why they need to enact similar measures on a national level. One can hope...

 

[Infohawk]

So, uhh, what kind of social services do you think migrant farm workers actually suck up, anyway, other than going to the emergency room if badly injured or desperately ill?

You know they have kids right? I met a daughter of a migrant farm worker with six siblings. They all went to school. They all got medical care. EVERYONE uses infrastructure, but some people don't generate enough taxes to pay for that infrastructure.

 

[chucky2]

Why do you like illegals more than Americans? Or is that not the case? Because I always see you bending over backwards to defend illegals and here you're shitting on "stupid rednecks." Is it because illegals are poor? Because they break the law? Because you think they vote Democrat? What is it?

10c extra for lettuce is too much to bear you know? Plus, you can't have an able bodied person sweating a little for 4 hours a day, they need to stay at home/in the bar, on their 85th week of UE. We need those illegal invaders!

 

[Jhhnn]

They'll only be working 4 hours a day or so, the other time they can be "looking for work", which we both/all know means, sitting at home or at the bar doing nothing.

Moralizing and innuendo aside, that won't pick Georgia farmers' crops at all, now will it? But I'm sure you'd like to imagine it will, and apparently have no trouble projected what you'd be doing on unemployment with what other might do...

I hope a.) Georgia does exactly what I suggested, b.) other states see the brilliancy of it, c.) other states do the same thing, just better coordinated, and d.) we go through the "growing" pains of getting un-illegally invaded in the least costly way as possible.

What's brilliant about screwing yourself, making your farmers less competitive? reducing harvests? Should we segue into some grapes of wrath scenario?

Look for Georgia farmers to do their best to avoid the new statutes, and for law enforcement to do the same, too. Well, if migrants will come back at all- they have enough insecurities w/o having to deal with that.

For sure the status quo, which is I'm sure what you want (or even better, grant as many can show up here citizenship, amirite yet again???), is not tenable. While this wasn't coordinated well at all, the sentiment is spot on. Rather have this than what you want, that's for d@mn sure...

Chuck

How would you presume to have the vaguest idea what I want other than by imagination?

Nice to see that you backed silently away from the whole social services rant... wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that, of course... It being a cornerstone of self righteousness & Faith on the part of Righties...

 

[Bitek]

You know they have kids right? I met a daughter of a migrant farm worker with six siblings. They all went to school. They all got medical care. EVERYONE uses infrastructure, but some people don't generate enough taxes to pay for that infrastructure.

Really? Illegals don't buy gas? They don't pay sales taxes, and even property taxes through their rent payments (assuming they don't own and pay directly.)

Yeah, farmers could raise wages even more. From what money? From their already meager profits and endanger their own debt payments? Or raise prices and make themselves uncompetitive?

Either way you like to slice it, a low wage labor pool makes American farming and other industries more globally competitive. R's can't explain how you can just take that away and not suffer neg effects. They didn't listen, and they got burned.

 

[Infohawk]

Really? Illegals don't buy gas? They don't pay sales taxes, and even property taxes through their rent payments (assuming they don't own and pay directly.)

Honestly how much do you think all their tax payments add up to? Mexicans in Mexico also make low wages. Have you noticed that the Mexican government can't afford first-world services? It isn't fucking rocket science. Third world wages cannot pay for first world infrastructure and social services.

Yeah, farmers could raise wages even more. From what money? From their already meager profits and endanger their own debt payments? Or raise prices and make themselves uncompetitive?

This has already been discussed in this thread. Consumers would pay more. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Either way you like to slice it, a low wage labor pool makes American farming and other industries more globally competitive.

There's no doubt that America can become more competitive if it reduces itself to the level of a third-world country. Most people are sane enough not to want that.

They didn't listen, and they got burned.

If anybody is to blame its the government for being so inconsistent about illegals. If farmers know what the situation is they'll adapt. The market needs a little time to adapt. It's worth it.

 

[senseamp]

Why do you like illegals more than Americans? Or is that not the case? Because I always see you bending over backwards to defend illegals and here you're shitting on "stupid rednecks." Is it because illegals are poor? Because they break the law? Because you think they vote Democrat? What is it?

Because they work hard.

 

[Infohawk]

Because they work hard.

And Americans don't? America's famous for the crazy amount of vacation its workers DO NOT get and are some of the world's most productive (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml). And most of them don't break the law while they do it. So I'm not buying your explanation for why you shit on Americans compared to illegals. What's really going on to you? Are you just so partisan that you wish your political opponents ill-will?

 

[senseamp]

And Americans don't? America's famous for the crazy amount of vacation its workers DO NOT get and are some of the world's most productive (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml). And most of them don't break the law while they do it. So I'm not buying your explanation for why you shit on Americans compared to illegals. What's really going on to you? Are you just so partisan that you wish your political opponents ill-will?

Americans did it to themselves, with their race to the bottom mentality. They don't complain that they got 2 weeks vacation, they complain that someone got 3. I don't shit on Americans in general, I shit on stupid rednecks who think their ticket up is to put others, who are just trying to make ends meet, down. Well, they put illegals down with this new law, great, now step in where they left off and start picking veggies.

 

[Infohawk]

Americans did it to themselves, with their race to the bottom mentality. They don't complain that they got 2 weeks vacation, they complain that someone got 3. I don't shit on Americans in general, I shit on stupid rednecks who think their ticket up is to put others, who are just trying to make ends meet, down. Well, they put illegals down with this new law, great, now step in where they left off and start picking veggies.

Race to the bottom? Aren't you the one that is happy with an endless supply of illegal third-wolrders who will work for next to nothing? Anyway, that's what I thought. It's not about hard work. It's about being so full of hate for your political opponents (how dare they have different ideas than you!) that you want them to fail and be miserable.

 

[senseamp]

Race to the bottom? Aren't you the one that is happy with an endless supply of illegal third-wolrders who will work for next to nothing? Anyway, that's what I thought. It's not about hard work. It's about being so full of hate for your political opponents (how dare they have different ideas than you!) that you want them to fail and be miserable.

If they failed, they wouldn't be miserable. They have succeeded at making themselves miserable.

 

[Macamus Prime]

I guess "them thar brown fellers" are needed after all.

Of course now, since they will have to hire legal workers, their costs will go up. So, the prices will go up as well. Or, they will expect the government to pay them, to make up for the loses.

I don't want illegals around, but I need the labor, but I don't want to lose money by the costs driving up,... since I got rid of the illegals.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Stupid rednecks, get your lazy butts out in the fields and pick the produce so my groceries stay cheap. You wanted Americans doing these jobs, now get out there and do them.

Were you not the one stating that illegals were OK so you could have your cheap lettuce.

Is the only difference in which state the impact is in?

 

[werepossum]

We should get rid of the federal guest worker program also... if the farmers were forced to pay more for farm labor or lose thousands of dollars in crops, they'd choose to accept a smaller bottom line. But won't the cost of fruits and vegetable go up? Sure. But that's because the true cost of producing the fruit and vegetables was never priced in, i.e., cost to society by illegal immigrants.

This.

And

if such rules were enforced nationwide this wouldn't even be an issue

This. I picked tomatoes as a teenager, alongside Mexicans; I was glad to have the work, and even more glad when my education and skills progressed to the point of leaving it behind.

There are no jobs Americans won't do; there are only jobs Americans won't do at the offered wage. Market wage should be what one person offers and another accepts, but if we allow importation of cheap labor willing to settle for poverty wages, that skews our whole system lower and more Americans must work fro poverty wages to compete. A system that maximizes people in poverty, even though it works well for resource owners, is not a good system.

 

[sactoking]

Just as there are "LOLrepublican" stories like this about legislation backfiring, there are "LOLiberal" stories about legislation backfiring. To whit, I present http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/nevada-s-minimum-wage-a-problem-124409029.html.

Yes, it's an op-ed piece. Yes, it focuses on teen unemployment, which I would agree is a lesser concern in times like this. But the germane portion is this:

In 2006 the NV minimum wage law was amended to set state minimum wage at $1/hr above the Federal rate. In 4 years the minimum wage has gone from $5.15 to $8.25, a 60% increase. NV leads the nation in unemployment.

Correlation is not causation, but it's at least possible that the skyrocketing minimum wage, a "progressive" ideal, has greatly contributed to lagging employment.

 

[1prophet]

Why pay more, just get rid of the minimum wage then Americans will line up for miles

Anyway just repeating what I read on these forums of how the minimum wage is hurting the ability of employers to attract quality help especially for manual labor jobs.:whiste:

And if you honestly believe any of that I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, cheap, even comes with toll booths:sneaky:

 

[HeXen]

is the working age for kids still 13yrs.?..it was when i was 13 and i detassled corn in the summer. Don't see why not hire teens? they would have to hire more to shuffle cause they can't work the long hours but still, most teens are happy with min wage. plus its a job to put on resume's for other job potentials.

 

[senseamp]

Were you not the one stating that illegals were OK so you could have your cheap lettuce.

Is the only difference in which state the impact is in?

Georgia needs illegals to pick veggies just like California. The difference is that they voted to kick them out, well now it's time for Georgians to go into the fields and pick produce.

 

[her209]

And that's exactly what they should do. Everyone collecting UE in those locales that have farms that need workers can be drawn lottery style, report to the local collection point, have their attendence recorded, and then be bussed to the local farm where they can work for their UE. They don't want to do that? Super. Drop them from the UE program. Keep cycling through people until all farm slots are filled.

Where do I sign those on UE up?

Your solution to the farm labor shortage is to force people to work there?

Slippery slope: If you receive unemployment, you are subject to the government's whims including manual labor. Now let's apply this logic to any form of governmental assistance, e.g., welfare, government subsidies, subsidized student loans, etc.

 

[Munky]

Farmers whine because their illegal workforce is gone? Who cares, let em whine, and then hire legal workers. Next up, Bernie Madoff rants about how much the feds really hurt his business.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Your solution to the farm labor shortage is to force people to work there?

Slippery slope: If you receive unemployment, you are subject to the government's whims including manual labor. Now let's apply this logic to any form of governmental assistance, e.g., welfare, government subsidies, subsidized student loans, etc.

They are awesome ideas. I wish someone would implement them. Why is it ok to hand out free money? And I know it isn't technically free - it is another person's money paid through taxes going to someone who "needs" it more.

 

[her209]

They are awesome ideas. I wish someone would implement them. Why is it ok to hand out free money? And I know it isn't technically free - it is another person's money paid through taxes going to someone who "needs" it more.

Well unemployment is technically your money that you are entitled to since its insurance for you. Is it ok for a car insurance company make you perform manual labor in order for them to process your claim and pay you back for your totaled car? And is it ok to force manual labor for some "free" money but not other "free" money?