George W. Bush Made Retroactive N.S.A. ‘Fix’ After Hospital Room Showdown

[Jimzz]

George W. Bush Made Retroactive N.S.A. ‘Fix’ After Hospital Room Showdown
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/u...sa-fix-after-hospital-room-showdown.html?_r=0

Newly declassified documents show that George W. Bush fought in 2004 for retroactive legal justification of the warrantless wiretapping and bulk metadata collection that he authorized in 2001.

So it was his way or f__k it I'll still do it my way anyway even if my own hand picked people will not support it and give a flaky legal justification for it.

 

[HomerJS]

For those who bitch about Eric Holder being the most corrupt AG ever, read the account of AG Alberto Gonzales going to John Ashcroft's hospital room while he had life threatening illness attempting to badger him in signing off on the spy program

 

[Jaskalas]

Bush never should have had a second term.
What surprised me was when Obama and Democrats effectively gave those policies another two terms after Bush.
Will American liberties ever be a priority for our elected leaders?

 

[trenchfoot]

For those who bitch about Eric Holder being the most corrupt AG ever, read the account of AG Alberto Gonzales going to John Ashcroft's hospital room while he had life threatening illness attempting to badger him in signing off on the spy program

Thanks for the memories.

It brought back to mind a whole lot of other skulduggery and backfiring ploys that the Bush/Cheney admin. perpetrated back in their day.

Bastards will never have to pay for their neocon inspired disasters and that to me is a real injustice unresolved for the nation.

 

[soundforbjt]

And Jeb!'s advisers are made up mostly of the same ones Dubya had.

 

[glenn1]

Bush never should have had a second term.
What surprised me was when Obama and Democrats effectively gave those policies another two terms after Bush.
Will American liberties ever be a priority for our elected leaders?

Both major parties are selective about the civil liberties they like and will actually enforce. It just happens that these were liberties gladly sacrificed by both to grow the power of the state, ostensibly for our own good but also just for the sake of accumulating power. And don't you feel safer with the TSA dog-n-pony show at the airport, having NSA read any email you send, being able to be designated persona non-grata and having a bomb dropped on your head despite being a citizen, etc etc etc?

 

[theeedude]

This is Republican governance for you. Not surprising. These people can't even run one branch of government without causing never ending crises, but running all three is an unmitigated disaster.

 

[JSt0rm]

Both major parties are selective about the civil liberties they like and will actually enforce. It just happens that these were liberties gladly sacrificed by both to grow the power of the state, ostensibly for our own good but also just for the sake of accumulating power. And don't you feel safer with the TSA dog-n-pony show at the airport, having NSA read any email you send, being able to be designated persona non-grata and having a bomb dropped on your head despite being a citizen, etc etc etc?

Both are equally bad parties eh? I love that you guys believe that and keep voting for horrible policies. It's like ur so brainwashed u don't think u have a choice.

 

[glenn1]

Both are equally bad parties eh? I love that you guys believe that and keep voting for horrible policies. It's like ur so brainwashed u don't think u have a choice.

<shrug> Reasonable people can see they both offer some (but not all) policies that appeal to the broad middle. On this particular set of policies both seem to have settled upon very poor ones with little payoff. Unless you like having your civil liberties diminished I don't see how you can cheer on either (D) or (R) here, regardless of what you think of the rest of their platform.

 

[trenchfoot]

This is Republican governance for you. Not surprising. These people can't even run one branch of government without causing never ending crises, but running all three is an unmitigated disaster.

Well, according to some folks, When the Repubs had all three branches of gov't in their control from 2000-2006 really great things happened. And the next president who took over from them in 2009 wasted it all away by not continuing the same economic and foreign relations policies that gave us all of those fantastic results that made our nation the undisputed leader in advanced forward thinking economic policies like the trickle-down theory and deregulating our banking and investment businesses to allow them a free hand in CRASHING OUR ECONOMY while making huge profits from it.

And, let's not forget how the classic use of nation building worked so well in Iraq via the expert implementation of the Republican sponsored Neocon philosophy of using overwhelming military force to win the hearts and minds of a religiously controlled tribal society. Of which, coincidentally, the same folks who made a virtual killing via the economic meltdown also made another huge pile of cash from this glorious (ad)venture in spreading democracy.

 

[chowderhead]

For those who bitch about Eric Holder being the most corrupt AG ever, read the account of AG Alberto Gonzales going to John Ashcroft's hospital room while he had life threatening illness attempting to badger him in signing off on the spy program

highly unfair. Everyone knows you are only supposed to go to the hospital room to ask your wife, suffering from cancer, for a divorce.

 

[Fenixgoon]

For those who bitch about Eric Holder being the most corrupt AG ever, read the account of AG Alberto Gonzales going to John Ashcroft's hospital room while he had life threatening illness attempting to badger him in signing off on the spy program

It was totally unbelievable. Amazing that Ashcroft was basically on his deathbed and still refused to sign off on it.

 

[Brian Stirling]

<shrug> Reasonable people can see they both offer some (but not all) policies that appeal to the broad middle. On this particular set of policies both seem to have settled upon very poor ones with little payoff. Unless you like having your civil liberties diminished I don't see how you can cheer on either (D) or (R) here, regardless of what you think of the rest of their platform.

I don't often agree with you but on this point I do. Very few of the spying programs enacted by President Cheney (sorry, Bush), were turned off by Obama. Of course, had Obama turned off any of these programs before the Boston Bombing there is little doubt that R's would have been demanding Obama be removed from office for it.

Of course the similarity on policy that both parties display isn't limited to spying programs -- trade deals etc are largely the same no matter if it's a D or an R in the White House.


Brian

 

[Darwin333]

Bush never should have had a second term.
What surprised me was when Obama and Democrats effectively gave those policies another two terms after Bush.
Will American liberties ever be a priority for our elected leaders?

Once the government taketh it rarely gives it back. Same thing with the ever expanding powers of the President/executive branch.

 

[Darwin333]

This is Republican governance for you. Not surprising. These people can't even run one branch of government without causing never ending crises, but running all three is an unmitigated disaster.

Have the Democrats ended the egregious violations of our civil liberties that Bush implemented?

 

[Strk]

Bush never should have had a second term.
What surprised me was when Obama and Democrats effectively gave those policies another two terms after Bush.
Will American liberties ever be a priority for our elected leaders?

Depends, but considering the DNC is pushing for Clinton and the GOP, except for Rand Paul (who has no chance) isn't really offering anything other than 'hey, I'm not Obama!,' I'd say currently no.

 

[Jaskalas]

Of course, had Obama turned off any of these programs before the Boston Bombing there is little doubt that R's would have been demanding Obama be removed from office for it.

Not only do they molest innocent people at the airports every day, and trash our Constitution, but when Russia flags its own people as a problem we let them slip by and the Boston Marathon becomes a casualty.

These efforts cannot secure us.
The price of actually achieving that would be the total elimination of our Bill of Rights.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Not only do they molest innocent people at the airports every day, and trash our Constitution, but when Russia flags its own people as a problem we let them slip by and the Boston Marathon becomes a casualty.

These efforts cannot secure us.
The price of actually achieving that would be the total elimination of our Bill of Rights.

I don't have a problem with airport screening and figure a BG would be less inclined to bring a weapon on board because of it. Not 100% but better than nothing. Yeah, minimum wage TSA types aren't much of a deterrence but having flown a lot I'd rather have some security rather than none.

It is a sad fact that the Russians did warn us about the Tsarnaev brothers but apparently that info wasn't good enough so they paid little attention to them. Our intelligence folks are so fixated with spying on everyone that they don't have time to pay attention to actual threats.


Brian

 

[Jhhnn]

Have the Democrats ended the egregious violations of our civil liberties that Bush implemented?

Attempts have been made, this among them-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37480-2004Jul8.html

There's one under way now with some support from HOR Repubs-

http://www.nationaljournal.com/cong...Complete-Patriot-Act-Extension?mrefid=related

Reform must originate from Congress simply because no President will take the political risk of not using all the means at their disposal to combat terrorism or even suggesting that their toolkit be more restricted.

 

[MongGrel]

And Jeb!'s advisers are made up mostly of the same ones Dubya had.

this.

Just another reason I could never go there.

I believe he even said he was talking to Dubya at one point as his foreign adviser.



I think about the first whole thread I've ever agreed with more or less.

So far.

 

[Art&Science]

So, do people still think Snowden is a turncoat and guilty of treason? Without his leaks we would never know about these things.

 

[glenn1]

So, do people still think Snowden is a turncoat and guilty of treason? Without his leaks we would never know about these things.

He probably is by the letter definition of the law, but that doesn't mean the law always serves justice. If I were on his jury I'd never vote to convict him though. His "treason" actually was a great service to the nation.

 

[Linux23]

He probably is by the letter definition of the law, but that doesn't mean the law always serves justice. If I were on his jury I'd never vote to convict him though. His "treason" actually was a great service to the nation.

This.