Genetically engineered corn causes low birth weight in mice

[Throckmorton]

You people are so ignorant. No one has ever talked about using GM corn for the food supply. It is primarily used as feed for cattle. Also, fields that are planted with GM corn for this use are required to be a minimum distance from an non GM corn plots. Do you really think that all the corn you see from the highways when driving through the Midwest is grown for human consumption? Its not since you cannot grow human food supply corn that close to a roadway. Food supply corn is still grown under very stringent guidelines.

That website and study are so ridiculously biased I cannot believe you posted that with a straight face.

You do realize that GM corn is no different than corn which could occur naturally. These companies do nothing to the corn that couldn't occur naturally through breeding and a lot of generations. They simply insert the genes rather than waiting forever to either breed them in or go out and find a wild type with the gene of interest.

You anti GM folk are ignorant as fuck. (For the purposes of full disclosure, I have worked at two GM companies and am currently employed at one.)

Are you saying that corn could somehow be bred to produce insecticide??

 

[xBiffx]

Just out of curiosity, *if* the gene showed up in a wild corn strain, would it be a provable statement that it had occurred naturally, as opposed to cross-breeding with a GM strain?

That's hard to say. You might be able to tell. Usually specific markers (sequence of DNA) are used when inserting a gene so sometimes their is an obvious signature as to where the gene came from. This marker is pretty specific and known and unlikely (although not impossible) to be exactly the same if it were wild. I would have to say yes, you could tell if the "wild type" plant was actually natural or a product of a GM plant.

 

[xBiffx]

Are you saying that corn could somehow be bred to produce insecticide??

Corn with a BT gene produces a protein just like the bacterium. So I guess the answer is yes. But this insecticide, I used that term loosely here, is 100% natural in that it occurs in other plants already. Nature already produced it, it didn't take a chemist and a lab to make this particular one. So really we are just arguing semantics at this point.

 

[xBiffx]

wow, Biff actually knows what he's talking about with this subject for once

Somethings you are ignorant as fuck about though Biff, but then again so am I when it comes to some subjects. We all don't know everything.

The problem is when people think they know more than they really do and won't back down in spite of overwhelming self pwnage they keep doing to themselves by showing their ignorance over and over on a subject they have fucking clue about. I'm talking in general and not point that comment at you there Biff. Although there has been a few pots that make me shake my head at your answers, but these posts have been excellent by you Biff.

I'm not a fan of the corporate manhandling and outright bullshit companies like Monsanto do. Some of their research is genius, but their business making decisions make me want to punch them in the face.

I guess I see where you are coming from with other posts I make. The big difference is this is actually a scientific topic and there is a lot of data on it. Usually we talk a lot about politics here and there is nothing "scientific" about it. Just a bunch of opinions and arguments derived from those. No clear way to decider the truth in that type of discussion so ignorance, from either side, tends to be the nature of the beast on those topics. Not disagreeing with anything you said, just my observations here.

 

[halik]

Are you saying that corn could somehow be bred to produce insecticide??

You mean like some plants contain toxins to defend themselves from predators? Ya know, the whole "evolution" thing?

Give me the full genome, supercomputer and mutation distribution function and given their survival is a function of those insects, they will absolutely evolve something similar to that.

 

[JS80]

I bet most of you fearmongers are loliberals

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

First, a correction

Nothing grows if you start inserting genes not specific to a species

The famous (or infamous if you like) "Fish tomato" uses an antifreeze gene from a flounder which doesn't get much further apart on the evolutionary tree. Further, the entire field of molecular genetics depends on moving genes to different critters and often they are from completely different organism.

That said no one has provided the original research to evaluate merits of the OPs claim. Citation fail.

 

[jackschmittusa]

JS80

I don't see anything remotely like fear mongering in having questions about our food supply. I do want reliable information on the safety of the things I eat, either for or against. That's why I questioned there being no links in the article and drew no conclusions.

The biggest fear mongering I see is the Republicans telling everyone to look under their beds for terrorists, lol

xBiffx

Combining DNA from vastly different species has been done many times and does not necessarily kill the resulting organism. You need to read more about that.

 

[Throckmorton]

You mean like some plants contain toxins to defend themselves from predators? Ya know, the whole "evolution" thing?

Give me the full genome, supercomputer and mutation distribution function and given their survival is a function of those insects, they will absolutely evolve something similar to that.

I highly doubt you could breed corn to product insecticides. How long would you spend just waiting for the right mutation? 1000 years? 2000 years? 1000000 years?

 

[CanOWorms]

No link to study, no scientist names, etc. Not only that, but the study is supposedly from the Austrian government? That's like asking Exxon to do a study on climate change.

 

[Ausm]

Who needs testing for products to prove they're safe. Free market FTW eat now sue after something kills you... oh wait..

Republicans don't like it when consumers can sue.

 

[Ninjahedge]

That is why they have already put(or tried to put) limits on the amounts that can be sued for.

Because we all know how important it is to save the Free Market... even though the actual number AND $$ of lawsuits has gone down... but whatever. Facts have nothing to do with the American Way!

 

[Arglebargle]

Why are they just studying this now? Where are the long term studies of the effects of this type of genetic manipulation?

I love Mad Science and genetics as much as the next person, but when you are putting things into food everywhere, you need to look at things a little closer than 'It won't kill you immediately'.

The same businesses that do this also tend to lobby against informed consumers, by excluding the information, or even fighting business that want to promote non-GM products.

Long term studies mean no profits now. We are the long term studies.

 

[xBiffx]

Why are they just studying this now? Where are the long term studies of the effects of this type of genetic manipulation?

I love Mad Science and genetics as much as the next person, but when you are putting things into food everywhere, you need to look at things a little closer than 'It won't kill you immediately'.

The same businesses that do this also tend to lobby against informed consumers, by excluding the information, or even fighting business that want to promote non-GM products.

Long term studies mean no profits now. We are the long term studies.

I am going to say this again for the last time and for clarity. GM crops are not used for the food supply! They are only used for livestock feed and for seed.

 

[FuzzyBee]

That's hard to say. You might be able to tell. Usually specific markers (sequence of DNA) are used when inserting a gene so sometimes their is an obvious signature as to where the gene came from. This marker is pretty specific and known and unlikely (although not impossible) to be exactly the same if it were wild. I would have to say yes, you could tell if the "wild type" plant was actually natural or a product of a GM plant.

RE: the bolded line. Which is more likely - this bolded line, or the mutation (that has been genetically modified) happening naturally?

 

[FuzzyBee]

I am going to say this again for the last time and for clarity. GM crops are not used for the food supply! They are only used for livestock feed and for seed.

I don't know as much about GM crops as I would like to. Are GM crops unable to cross-breed?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Which is more likely,

Mice being under-weight because of GM corn being directly related to corn-meal in cheap baby food or flying cows?

NOT reading the "studies", I just want to know, how will CORN effect the development of CHILDREN when it is not even recommended to fill them full of corn meal? What is the connection between the GM and the smaller size? What is missing? Is this something that only happens when both sets of rodents are given ONLY GM and non GM corn?

Is this something, in a world full of fat-asses, that should be looked at as a flaw or an unexpected dietary boon?

Geez, people get scared over the dumbest crap.

 

[xBiffx]

RE: the bolded line. Which is more likely - this bolded line, or the mutation (that has been genetically modified) happening naturally?

That's kind of like asking "which came first, the chicken or the egg." Anyways, if you look at this from a probability standpoint, the natural mutation has probably already happened its just that we weren't there to witness it. The likelihood that you happen to pick a plant randomly and find exactly what you were looking for is very low, but again not impossible. So probability pretty much points you to this not being a natural phenomenon.

This has pretty much been might point from my first post. The genetic characteristics that scientists are inserting into GM corn have likely already or will eventually exist. The scientist is just speeding up the natural process by inserting it now. Or you can look at it as they are speeding up the process of trying to find the needle in a haystack plant that has this occurring naturally.

 

[thraashman]

I've read enough comic books to know that if I eat enough of the right type of genetically modified foods that I'll gain superpowers. So keep on with the GM foods, I want my superspeed or mind control powers!

Boy I hope comics haven't been lying to me about this though.

 

[Ninjahedge]

I don't know as much about GM crops as I would like to. Are GM crops unable to cross-breed?

Rhetorical question.

As mentioned earlier, the human crops are more isolated and are continuously monitored to try to keep them constant. Cross-breeding can happen, but the crossover is most likely small.

Again, what does it MATTER? If you have a problem, it should be with corn meal and corn syrup going into everything you eat, not skinny mice.

 

[Ninjahedge]

I've read enough comic books to know that if I eat enough of the right type of genetically modified foods that I'll gain superpowers. So keep on with the GM foods, I want my superspeed or mind control powers!

Boy I hope comics haven't been lying to me about this though.

No, that was radioactivity.

 

[xBiffx]

I don't know as much about GM crops as I would like to. Are GM crops unable to cross-breed?

Some are, some aren't. Some companies insert "terminator" genes into some strains to protect their "product" as you will. This gene basically makes the line of plants sterile so that they are not able to reproduce. From a business standpoint this is smart because it prevents people from saving seed from their crop and planting it the following year, thus cutting into your profits. Also, from a safety standpoint since farmers have to buy seed every year you are able to keep control on where your product is going and can better control GM seed from going somewhere it shouldn't (i.e. food supply plots). From a PR standpoint it is a minefield because it makes it look like you are unnaturally sterilizing your plants to just make more money because you force farmers to keep buying seed every year.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Some are, some aren't.

Wouldn't a plant that resulted from a cross-breed of a GM and a natural plant be, in essence, GM?

 

[xBiffx]

Wouldn't a plant that resulted from a cross-breed of a GM and a natural plant be, in essence, GM?

Yes. There are lots of measures put in place to make sure this doesn't happen unless you want it. Even then, it is done under controlled conditions.

 

[Arglebargle]

Yes. There are lots of measures put in place to make sure this doesn't happen unless you want it. Even then, it is done under controlled conditions.

And we know all these controls work, and that they work all around the world. ;(

Can you point me to studies done on the cattle they are feeding this to? Shorter generations, should be easier to test. I mean, that was the point of the original experiment, flawed or legit. There should be reasonable data on it...