Generation Chickenhawk

[ayabe]

Text

"On July 13, 2007, I visited Section 60 of Arlington National Cemetery, where the bodies of American soldiers killed in Iraq were freshly interred. Afterwards, I headed across the street to the Sheraton National Hotel, owned by right-wing Korean cult leader Sun Myung-Moon, to meet some of the war's most fervent supporters at the College Republican National Convention.

In conversations with at least twenty College Republicans about the war in Iraq, I listened as they lip-synched discredited cant about "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Many of the young GOP cadres I met described the so-called "war on terror" as nothing less than the cause of their time.

Yet when I asked these College Repulicans why they were not participating in this historical cause, they immediately went into contortions. Asthma. Bad knees from playing catcher in high school. "Medical reasons." "It's not for me." These were some of the excuses College Republicans offered for why they could not fight them "over there." Like the current Republican leaders who skipped out on Vietnam, the GOP's next generation would rather cheerlead from the sidelines for the war in Iraq while other, less privileged young men and women fight and die.

Along with videographer Thomas Shomaker, I captured a vivid portrait of the hypocritical mentality of the next generation of Republican leaders. See for yourself."

Video might take a while to load but I think this is a pretty funny glimpse into the mindset of the next generation of the Republican party and why they won't join the war they think is great.

Tom Delay makes a cameo insisting that we wouldn't need illegal immigrants if we had those 40 million aborted babies back.

 

[yllus]

Rather flawed argument. There's nothing wrong with supporting a given cause while not being a front-line volunteer to carry it through.

Edit: Frankly, this should simply be locked. This thread serves no purpose but as a gateway to next start bashing people on this forum who support the Iraq invasion.

 

[Deudalus]

You cannot have an opinion on music unless you are a musician.

You cannot have an opinion on movies unless you are an actor, director, producer, or best boy grip whatever that is.

You cannot have an opinion on politics unless you are a politician.

You cannot have an opinion on your health unless you are a doctor or healthcare provider.

You cannot have an opinion on the war on drugs unless you are currently using all said drugs.

You cannot have an opinion on other countries throughout the world unless you live in that country.

 

[kylebisme]

It is flagrantly immoral to talk someone else into taking a bullet for your cause when you aren't willing to stand in front of that bullet yourself.

 

[amddude]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
It is flagrantly immoral to talk someone else into taking a bullet for your cause when you aren't willing to stand in front of that bullet yourself.

Wrong. Volunteer army.

If it was a draft, then this might hold some weight.

 

[Lemon law]

There is a certain validity to the fact that you can understand music without actually being a musician. And advocate a war without being a warrior in that war. But we are taking about likely future GOP leaders here, and when all of them take a pass on front line participating in the Iraq war---there is somehow something wrong with that song and dance.

And maybe it also shows why their elder GOP brethren are all bad actors---it may be all well and fine to have a POSSIBLE moral justification to a war---but to have a troop of actors---or an orchestra playing any song and dance---its all in the implemention that simply can't be delegated away to someone else.---or else you get a bunch of maybe talented but otherwise arrogant prigs that can't get anyone on the same page--and the resulting tune is what we have in Iraq.

 

[nick1985]

Im volunteering and I dont view myself as "less privileged", and I take offense to that. I graduated college with two degrees and have a lot of options I could pursue, I am not joining the military because I am less privileged.


**edit**

after watching the video, I will admit that their responses to his questions were hilarious.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
There is a certain validity to the fact that you can understand music without actually being a musician. And advocate a war without being a warrior in that war. But we are taking about likely future GOP leaders here, and when all of them take a pass on front line participating in the Iraq war---there is somehow something wrong with that song and dance.

Really?

Firstly, they are not future GOP leaders. In a small state college like the one I went to in Louisiana (a very small state) there were about 40 members of the College Republicans.

So that means when we reach some 250,000 Congress members then maybe you could argue that future GOP leaders are present. But even with those numbers there would likely be a very small percentage of future GOP leaders present.

Secondly, Clinton went to war in Kosovo. Clinton had troops in Somalia. Clinton had troops in a variety of places that were attacked.

Are you as a democrat ready to take a bullet?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: amddude

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
It is flagrantly immoral to talk someone else into taking a bullet for your cause when you aren't willing to stand in front of that bullet yourself.

Wrong. Volunteer army.

If it was a draft, then this might hold some weight.

If there was a draft then the chickenhawks would actually have to consider the possibility that they might have to take a bullet. But then the chickenhawks' whole reasoning is based on avioding that, they'd much rather see Iraq turned into a warzone than even face the possibly of having a war on their own homeland; send volunteers to fight "them" over there so we don't have to fight "them" here.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Yet when I asked these College Repulicans why they were not participating in this historical cause, they immediately went into contortions. Bad knees from playing catcher in high school.

Huh....from as tough as these guys like to talk, I would have thought that most of these guys would be pitchers instead.

But at least the excuse would still be valid in our "Don't ask, don't tell military".

 

[Phokus]

what would have been more effective is if they had a bunch of military recruiters tag along and have them do their high pressure sales pitch on those college republicans. You'd think the college republican meetings would be fertile ground for recruiting.

 

[Lemon law]

Well it is early to say that this video contains the GOP of leaders of the future or not----but we do have the 20 20 vision snapshot of present GOP leaders---and of all the chickenhawks beating the war drums---its people like ole 5 deferment Cheney that are more typical than someone like GWB who actually served--even if he had his daddy get him a cush spot in a reserve unit ahead of many who signed up before--and ole George W. hardly even bothered to show up as it was.

In fact thats the challenge of this thread---who is a current or former Republican chickenhawk and actually ever came to a point where they had to worry about bullets being aimed at them? Or even have famdamily members who do in this present war?

But I can sure list Biden and Kerry--but they are democrats.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
You cannot have an opinion on music unless you are a musician.

You cannot have an opinion on movies unless you are an actor, director, producer, or best boy grip whatever that is.

You cannot have an opinion on politics unless you are a politician.

You cannot have an opinion on your health unless you are a doctor or healthcare provider.

You cannot have an opinion on the war on drugs unless you are currently using all said drugs.

You cannot have an opinion on other countries throughout the world unless you live in that country.

By that same argument, who would have more authority in having a valid opinion? Someone who's actually experienced and educated in the topic at hand or someone who just has an opinion? When other people's lives are put in danger for your opinion, you had better have an informed opinion of what warfare is like and the effects it has on others and not just some sheltered opinion developed through many years of suburban hardship.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: yllus
Rather flawed argument. There's nothing wrong with supporting a given cause while not being a front-line volunteer to carry it through.

Edit: Frankly, this should simply be locked. This thread serves no purpose but as a gateway to next start bashing people on this forum who support the Iraq invasion.

The problem isn't that there's nothing wrong in supporting a cause while not being a direct participant. The problem arises when those same supporters no longer support the cause when they have something at risk. Being a fair-weather supporter of something that gets people killed is not just fine.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Deudalus
You cannot have an opinion on music unless you are a musician.

You cannot have an opinion on movies unless you are an actor, director, producer, or best boy grip whatever that is.

You cannot have an opinion on politics unless you are a politician.

You cannot have an opinion on your health unless you are a doctor or healthcare provider.

You cannot have an opinion on the war on drugs unless you are currently using all said drugs.

You cannot have an opinion on other countries throughout the world unless you live in that country.

By that same argument, who would have more authority in having a valid opinion? Someone who's actually experienced and educated in the topic at hand or someone who just has an opinion? When other people's lives are put in danger for your opinion, you had better have an informed opinion of what warfare is like and the effects it has on others and not just some sheltered opinion developed through many years of suburban hardship.

He was being sarcastic

 

[bamacre]

"fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here."

What a disgusting excuse. How is this fair to Iraqi citizens, they had nothing to do with terrorism?

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Secondly, Clinton went to war in Kosovo. Clinton had troops in Somalia. Clinton had troops in a variety of places that were attacked.

Are you as a democrat ready to take a bullet?

Considering we basically had no casualties in Kosovo, I don't know how you could possibly consider that a valid comparison to Iraq.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
You cannot have an opinion on music unless you are a musician.

You cannot have an opinion on movies unless you are an actor, director, producer, or best boy grip whatever that is.

You cannot have an opinion on politics unless you are a politician.

You cannot have an opinion on your health unless you are a doctor or healthcare provider.

You cannot have an opinion on the war on drugs unless you are currently using all said drugs.

You cannot have an opinion on other countries throughout the world unless you live in that country.

None of those are life and death topics, but the war is.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: amddude

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
It is flagrantly immoral to talk someone else into taking a bullet for your cause when you aren't willing to stand in front of that bullet yourself.

Wrong. Volunteer army.

If it was a draft, then this might hold some weight.

They volunteered for the National Guard to protect the home front. They were expecting to do 2 weeks in the summer and one weekend a month unless there was a national emergency.

It's rather telling (to me anyway) that the person asking them for this sacrafice wasn't even willing to take his flight physical after the taxpayers spent over $1 millon training his sorry ass to be a jet fighter.

People can justify anything they percieve as "coming their way".

 

[sandorski]

hehe, love the bumper sticker.

 

[lizardboy]

Great video

 

[Tab]

I don't see how there's anything wrong with supporting a without being directly involved. I am a very enthusiastic supporter of gay rights but I it's not like I am going to change my sexual preference. I also found the filmmakers behavior toward the end of the film to quite inappropriate; I found the short film quite entertaining as is without the theatrics.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Tab
I don't see how there's anything wrong with supporting a without being directly involved. I am a very enthusiastic supporter of gay rights but I it's not like I am going to change my sexual preference.

Does the advancement of gay rights require the change in sexual preference of supporters in the same way that supporting the war requires service from supporters?

 

[palehorse]

Their excuses for not serving sound just as lame, and ready, as those coming from the left.... IMO, it's a generational thing with most young folks today too pussy to work for a damn thing - regardless of party affiliation.

nothing new here...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
You cannot have an opinion on music unless you are a musician.

You cannot have an opinion on movies unless you are an actor, director, producer, or best boy grip whatever that is.

You cannot have an opinion on politics unless you are a politician.

You cannot have an opinion on your health unless you are a doctor or healthcare provider.

You cannot have an opinion on the war on drugs unless you are currently using all said drugs.

You cannot have an opinion on other countries throughout the world unless you live in that country.

I think a more relevant analogy would be that of the football fan who acts like HE'S the one out there scoring the touchdowns. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion as a spectator, but let's be honest, many pro-war folks take it well beyond that. I don't have a problem with someone being pro-war without picking up a rifle himself, I DO have a problem with someone thinking nice cheap words make him a real tough guy and on the same level as those that are actually doing something other than collecting their trust funds.

By the way, I tend to like Republicans and Democrats in pretty much equal proportion (when we're not discussing politics), but I have yet to find a group of people more irritating than the College Republicans. There is something about acting like a crotchety old man when you don't know what the hell you are talking about that just makes you look like a huge knob. Don't get me wrong, not knowing what the hell they are talking about is hardly something only the college Republicans have a problem with...virtually all college students are like that (and I don't exempt myself from that group). It's just that a big part of being a conservative Republican is acting like a guy in his 40s with a lot of "life experience", something that comes off as pretty annoying when you're a dumb college kid.