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General VR discussion thread

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
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I predict much like Wii controllers and people taking selfies in stupid places, there are going to be a number of VR related ER visits and broken computers, and/or TV's when users lose track of where they are or get scared/etc in a game and trip/fall/fall into things.
Oh absolutely. I've had people walk into walls with my Gear VR :D
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,975
623
126
I predict much like Wii controllers and people taking selfies in stupid places, there are going to be a number of VR related ER visits and broken computers, and/or TV's when users lose track of where they are or get scared/etc in a game and trip/fall/fall into things.
Vive is supposed to warn you about getting close to your boundaries or any objects in the way. Although, Oculus does not have capabilities for stuff like that.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
I predict much like Wii controllers and people taking selfies in stupid places, there are going to be a number of VR related ER visits and broken computers, and/or TV's when users lose track of where they are or get scared/etc in a game and trip/fall/fall into things.
Probably, I'm always concerned about my 4k monitor when people are using my DK2 and start flailing their arms.

Still...people hardly need VR to do stupid things and end up in the ER, plenty of idiots do that without any help at all :)
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Makes sense and is pretty sweet. Some NASA created virtual content would be very sweet indeed.
I doubt it's something the consumer could use. The intent is a hybrid reality with 3D printed rough environments providing tactile feedback for virtual training worlds. Think of seats you can actually sit in that are placed appropriately for a virtual Orion cockpit.

In other news Palmer is backpedaling and trying to downplay 3D controllers in the current market.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/03/oculus-co-founder-hand-tracking-controllers-were-never-part-of-launch-plan/

As Ars puts it, the most compelling experiences right now use a tracked interface.
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
944
58
91
As Ars puts it, the most compelling experiences right now use a tracked interface.
But even so, none of those "experiences" are going to amount to anything more than a novelty - a cool party trick to show your friends. Everything that's been shown so far with hand-tracking/room-scale/etc. is the equivalent of a Wii Sports mini-game in terms of complexity and replay-ability. That stuff impresses the press but it's not the reason PC gamers have been looking forward to VR for the last couple of years.

The real value in this tech for gamers will be first and foremost in driving/flying/space simulations. Real ones, not cartoony kid shit. I imagine eventually someone will make an MMO designed from the ground up for this space too, probably the Chinese or Koreans. But hand-tracking/room-scale are non factors in either of those genres.

There may, may be a competitive fps genre that utilizes hand tracking but I seriously doubt it's anywhere near precise enough for competitive PC gamers used to pixel-perfect aiming with a mouse.

I agree with Palmer Lucky - motion controls shouldn't be the main focus for this device yet. The Wii sold a lot of units but it didn't really do anything to push the gaming industry forward and ended up being just a neat toy to show your grandma.
 
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Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Everything that's been shown so far with hand-tracking/room-scale/etc. is the equivalent of a Wii Sports mini-game in terms of complexity and replay-ability.
https://youtu.be/QEoAhF2FKE4?t=4m40s <- This alone could be its own game with a great bit of depth to it
https://youtu.be/4Ina-Pl8_yk?t=5m22s
https://youtu.be/ADB2qMZZjKA?t=1m3s <- Multiplayer shooter, resource management, cover usage
https://youtu.be/sX1cum0vyWk?t=1m21s <- Adventure gaming
https://youtu.be/TwtEw2ggPnA?t=5m8s <- Stealth/infiltration gameplay
https://youtu.be/mSLgj6uy-yE?t=27s <- Just funny

Those are just a few. But where the Oculus really falls short is it doesn't currently have any use outside games (due to no 3D input). The Vive with roomscale and 3D interactive tracking has many more possibilities.

Art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYY-DZ14i9E
Design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio
Engineering: https://youtu.be/8izI8U95JJI?t=21s

And more as they end up in the hands of more and more people. Meanwhile, Palmer Luckey is trying to tell people they're not ready for the things they're creating yet. :\

Also, here is someone's impressions of it after 30 days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq5IyQOHFMw
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
If someone finishes the VR part of Alien Isolation, I'll be happy. Seriously, horror games will be amplified by this due to immersion and size.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Giantbomb put up a hands on demo with the devs of Golem. I watched it last night. Although the move controller does mess up a few times, I'm starting to get excited for the motion controllers. I'm imagining what they are doing in the demo applied to an Elder Scrolls game and I can't wait.

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/unfinished-ex-golem-playstation-vr-03172016/2300-11054/

I'm glad I was able to mess around with a DK1 because it lets me have a better understanding of how these games will play. So I can look at the 2D gameplay footage and have a real sense of what the player is experiencing. There was practically nothing available back when I played with the DK1, so seeing these fleshed out games specifically for VR is awesome.

I'm still happy with my choice of the Rift because there are some games that are modding in support that I already own. I'm thinking the mod community will be a huge help for the PC gaming crowd by getting older games compatible in some way.
 
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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
But even so, none of those "experiences" are going to amount to anything more than a novelty - a cool party trick to show your friends. Everything that's been shown so far with hand-tracking/room-scale/etc. is the equivalent of a Wii Sports mini-game in terms of complexity and replay-ability. That stuff impresses the press but it's not the reason PC gamers have been looking forward to VR for the last couple of years.

The real value in this tech for gamers will be first and foremost in driving/flying/space simulations. Real ones, not cartoony kid shit. I imagine eventually someone will make an MMO designed from the ground up for this space too, probably the Chinese or Koreans. But hand-tracking/room-scale are non factors in either of those genres.

There may, may be a competitive fps genre that utilizes hand tracking but I seriously doubt it's anywhere near precise enough for competitive PC gamers used to pixel-perfect aiming with a mouse.

I agree with Palmer Lucky - motion controls shouldn't be the main focus for this device yet. The Wii sold a lot of units but it didn't really do anything to push the gaming industry forward and ended up being just a neat toy to show your grandma.
While I think motion controls have a way to go before devs understand how to fully use them I think you misunderstand VR. What is fun in VR is fundamentally different than traditional 2d games. I lost track of how many times I've heard people say something along the lines of 'That looked dumb in 2d, but was super fun in VR'. Its sort of a transformative experience. Its hard to look at the experiences out there and say if they'll be worth it. For sure there are some gimmie seated experiences you mentioned, but especially for motion controls I think it'll be a whole new paradigm.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
The reason I prefer the Rift:

* I am in a cramped space where my desk is and it would be impossible to "move around", even just 1m from my desk.

* The motion controllers of the Vive seem *great*, but then Oculus Touch controllers will be out as well (soon). Means I can get a Rift cheaper initially and STILL get the Oculus Touch controllers when they're available. Means: The price is likely ultimately the same and the Rift has no significant disadvantage over the Vive.

* Availability of demos
One of the biggest incentive to me for the Rift is that I can go on OR forums and download lots of demos/games etc. people already made for the Rift. Some are said to be fricking amazing! If I get a Vive I wouldn't even know where to go to get demos!

* Both sets use the same panel, resolution etc. anyway

* Rift is said to be lighter and more comfortable to wear

I am NOT saying the Vive is "worse" or the Rift "better", not by a long-shot, but in my case I just think a Rift makes more sense. If you have a dedicated area where you can (and you want to) walk around in VR, a Vive might be "better" for you and of course the fact you get the two controllers already included. I DO see that having actual motion controllers would be awesome for more immersion...but as said Oculus Touch will be out too, so no criterion for me.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
They didn't learn enough though. Had they announced and packaged HL3 with this, they'd be back ordered for a year day one.
Can you even imagine though? "HTC Vive bundled with HL3". Billions. They would have made billions :D
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Nice to see a lot of information regarding all three coming out from GDC. PS VR looks to be shaping up well. I'm not going to jump on that until I see the games. It may be hard for me to use the PSVR because of the lower resolution. I'm sensitive to the screen door effect. Maybe when the newer PS4.5 come out with 4k support the tech will be mature enough to check it out.

As for Vive and Oculus, I'm not going to set up a dedicated room to walk around. I'm sure that it is fun in very specific cases, but that seems more like a theme park experience. I don't know how they make it into a full genre of games. Do you have to return to the center of the room before moving to the next room? No way you can do open world in a relatively small room.

An interesting control scheme that I heard the Golem guys talk about is leaning. Lean slightly forward to go forward, lean to the right to begin moving right, and turn your head to turn your body. All of that should be natural because that is how we actually move.

The smartest thing to do is wait a year for this stuff. I'm really curious to see how HTC and Oculus fight for marketshare.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
The smartest thing to do is wait a year for this stuff. I'm really curious to see how HTC and Oculus fight for marketshare.
I just hope they don't try to segregate the games too much with exclusives. The entry point is way too high to have to buy both'. I can understand there will be games that cater to full motion tracking, but the majority won't at least for a few years. There should be little reason most games can't work on both.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,194
346
126
The reason I prefer the Rift:

* I am in a cramped space where my desk is and it would be impossible to "move around", even just 1m from my desk.

* The motion controllers of the Vive seem *great*, but then Oculus Touch controllers will be out as well (soon). Means I can get a Rift cheaper initially and STILL get the Oculus Touch controllers when they're available. Means: The price is likely ultimately the same and the Rift has no significant disadvantage over the Vive.

* Availability of demos
One of the biggest incentive to me for the Rift is that I can go on OR forums and download lots of demos/games etc. people already made for the Rift. Some are said to be fricking amazing! If I get a Vive I wouldn't even know where to go to get demos!

* Both sets use the same panel, resolution etc. anyway

* Rift is said to be lighter and more comfortable to wear

I am NOT saying the Vive is "worse" or the Rift "better", not by a long-shot, but in my case I just think a Rift makes more sense. If you have a dedicated area where you can (and you want to) walk around in VR, a Vive might be "better" for you and of course the fact you get the two controllers already included. I DO see that having actual motion controllers would be awesome for more immersion...but as said Oculus Touch will be out too, so no criterion for me.
if you do have a cramped space the rift camera is going to be problematic as well. accuracy with the camera is dependent on keeping you in the field of view, the closer the camera is the smaller the range of motion. with the vive lighthouse system there is no issue. even sitting with the rift could be a problem if you cant get good placement of the camera.

rift and touch do have a downside. touch controllers will require a second camera to reduce occlusions(loss of tracking). the additional camera will require additional cpu processing power for each object/controller added. the vive system puts the tracking processor inside the controller so there is no penalty for each item added. valve had 4 devs/hmds all working on separate things at the same time in their office with only the default 2 lighthouse units needed. while the touch controllers will probably have more versatility as inputs go, a generation or 2 will likely make both the touch and vive wands obsolete as they figure out new usages.

while oculus will probably spend more time on general vr experiences vs games, the ability to use steam and play non vr games on the vive as a giant vr 2d screen adds a significant bit of catalog.

while you and most others wont be using roomscale to begin with, the vive chaperone system is a significant feature that reduces the amount of visor lifting.

i get that you arent stumping for any one camp in particular, but there are significant differences in hardware. oculus will likely have to work way harder to make the intangibles more compelling. both camps wont be releasing major upgrades(4k per eye) until gpu are capable of handling the load, so you may be using the same tracking system for a few years. in which case the lighthouse system will be more expandable and less likely to require future spending.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,819
32
91
StarVR will have 210 degrees of FOV. Too bad no one will probably ever make any games for it.

This is us now:



This is us after VR:

 
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flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
if you do have a cramped space the rift camera is going to be problematic as well. accuracy with the camera is dependent on keeping you in the field of view, the closer the camera is the smaller the range of motion. with the vive lighthouse system there is no issue. even sitting with the rift could be a problem if you cant get good placement of the camera.
[...]
Helpful!

By the way, I don't see myself as being in some "extraordinarily unusual" space, I am just a typical PC guy with a monitor and whatever crap on his desk, my PC at the floor, like probably a majority of folks out there.

Where and how does the Rift camera need to be placed?
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,699
138
106
I currently have a rift on preorder, but I am still debating if I should drop it and go with a vive. The extra money is no big deal. So I am looking how well they work and what sort of content each has and what it will support. I also plan to use this with UE4 if that makes any difference.

Any suggestions?
 

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