• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

General VR discussion thread

Page 79 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
The opening keynote of the Oculus Connect event is at 1 PM Eastern/10 AM Pacific today. There may be some new product announcements.
Huge step forward:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/26/oculus-quest-santa-cruz-price-release-date/

Oculus Quest:

https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-oculus-quest-our-first-6dof-all-in-one-vr-system-launching-spring-2019/

* Standalone headset, similar in concept to a console (different from the portable Oculus Go unit)
* Uses "inside-out" tracking technology called "Insight", which has 4 ultra-wide sensors plus computer vision algorithms to track user movement & controller motion
* $400 for 64GB model
* Launches Spring of 2019
* 1600x1440 per eye
* Over 50 titles lined up for launch, with even more in the works including Robo Recall, The Climb, and Moss

Dang, this sounds awesome! Time to start saving up :D

I think this will be the boost that VR needs to go mainstream...all-in-one unit, reasonable price (compared to a PS4 or XBOX), and body & controller motion-tracking.
 

Pheran

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2001
5,849
48
91
The Oculus Quest is very interesting, but I'm concerned about how much 3D horsepower they can really fit into a standalone unit that is only $400 - especially one that has a resolution higher than the Rift.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
The Oculus Quest is very interesting, but I'm concerned about how much 3D horsepower they can really fit into a standalone unit that is only $400 - especially one that has a resolution higher than the Rift.
Same. Really, it's the only thing I don't agree with about the system. I hope that they make like a Quest Connect piece that acts like the Vive's wireless adapter to let you tether it to a computer, because then you'd have PC-grade GPU horsepower, but not have to setup a wire tether or a pair of Lighthouses.

I understand what they're doing, however - they want to make it appealing to the masses. 6DOF wireless for $400 is pretty insane, if you think about it. Plus, they may be able to solve the GPU issue by doing a streaming service like Onlive used to do. LiquidSky & a few other companies offer cloud gaming systems now, which are surprisingly good, so they might be able to do a good-quality PC-streaming system for VR at some point.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
Huge step forward:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/26/oculus-quest-santa-cruz-price-release-date/

Oculus Quest:

https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-oculus-quest-our-first-6dof-all-in-one-vr-system-launching-spring-2019/

* Standalone headset, similar in concept to a console (different from the portable Oculus Go unit)
* Uses "inside-out" tracking technology called "Insight", which has 4 ultra-wide sensors plus computer vision algorithms to track user movement & controller motion
* $400 for 64GB model
* Launches Spring of 2019
* 1600x1440 per eye
* Over 50 titles lined up for launch, with even more in the works including Robo Recall, The Climb, and Moss

Dang, this sounds awesome! Time to start saving up :D

I think this will be the boost that VR needs to go mainstream...all-in-one unit, reasonable price (compared to a PS4 or XBOX), and body & controller motion-tracking.
Nope, people will crap all over this. Why? Because they'll never get the power of a full desktop PC high-end graphics card required to have the visuals that people really want. Read through this thread. It's a step in the right direction in terms of what VR needs, but it still won't have the graphic fidelity everyone really wants. It's limited. No different than those that claim to be okay with PSVR vs PC, or the Smartphone ones now. Basically, it's a move away from high fidelity and it will be more of the same to compensate.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
Nope, people will crap all over this. Why? Because they'll never get the power of a full desktop PC high-end graphics card required to have the visuals that people really want. Read through this thread. It's a step in the right direction in terms of what VR needs, but it still won't have the graphic fidelity everyone really wants. It's limited. No different than those that claim to be okay with PSVR vs PC, or the Smartphone ones now. Basically, it's a move away from high fidelity and it will be more of the same to compensate.
I think that will matter to people like us, who care about VR & who care about gaming computers. However, I've run this idea past several non-techie gamer friends & they were all pretty dang excited about the concept, despite the graphical limitations. I do hope they offer a PC link add-on for it, because that'd be awesome!
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Is there going to be a high quality, more comfortable, PC-based VR 2.0 in 2019? Or should I give up and get a rift or vive on black friday?
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,505
357
126
Is there going to be a high quality, more comfortable, PC-based VR 2.0 in 2019? Or should I give up and get a rift or vive on black friday?
There's the odyssey which has increased resolution and lg and Google are supposed to come out with an even higher quality one but not sure when.
 

Pheran

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2001
5,849
48
91
I understand what they're doing, however - they want to make it appealing to the masses. 6DOF wireless for $400 is pretty insane, if you think about it. Plus, they may be able to solve the GPU issue by doing a streaming service like Onlive used to do. LiquidSky & a few other companies offer cloud gaming systems now, which are surprisingly good, so they might be able to do a good-quality PC-streaming system for VR at some point.
Streaming is never going to work for VR, because of the latency requirements for actions like turning your head. Trying to stream that would almost certainly make everyone sick.
 

Pheran

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2001
5,849
48
91
Same. Really, it's the only thing I don't agree with about the system. I hope that they make like a Quest Connect piece that acts like the Vive's wireless adapter to let you tether it to a computer, because then you'd have PC-grade GPU horsepower, but not have to setup a wire tether or a pair of Lighthouses.
This would be awesome - I would definitely buy a Quest if I could use it in tethered mode with full graphics from my 1070, or as a standalone unit with the limited graphics it provides. But I don't think that feature is there today.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
Is there going to be a high quality, more comfortable, PC-based VR 2.0 in 2019? Or should I give up and get a rift or vive on black friday?
They just came out with the Vive Pro, which is aimed at businesses, so I dunno. Pimax is doing a lot of neat things, including an 8K headset, but they have various issues. Supposedly Valve is getting close to a hardware release, along with a few VR games, and I'm very interested to see if they can smash through the current kind of VR stagnation that's been going on for awhile...arrow games, shooting games, etc.

I'd love to see Laser Quest places take the Oculus Quest & make it team-based in a warehouse...I don't have room for more than one person in my "VR room" right now, but it'd be cool to go someplace & play with a bunch of a friends on some team games, even if it was just Rec Room!
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,975
623
126
They just came out with the Vive Pro, which is aimed at businesses, so I dunno. Pimax is doing a lot of neat things, including an 8K headset, but they have various issues. Supposedly Valve is getting close to a hardware release, along with a few VR games, and I'm very interested to see if they can smash through the current kind of VR stagnation that's been going on for awhile...arrow games, shooting games, etc.

I'd love to see Laser Quest places take the Oculus Quest & make it team-based in a warehouse...I don't have room for more than one person in my "VR room" right now, but it'd be cool to go someplace & play with a bunch of a friends on some team games, even if it was just Rec Room!
There has actually been a lot of praise about Pimax lately as they're gearing up to ship units to the Kickstarter backers. The only negative that I've heard about them is that the Pimax 8K is a little underwhelming since it uses upscaling, which seems to noticeably hurt image quality. People are strongly recommending the slightly cheaper Pimax 5K+, which is supposed to be similar to the original Pimax 5K, but with a better panel. You can see a bit more about the controversy here.

Even as a Vive Pro owner, I would consider a Pimax 5K+ as one of the limitations of VR is that it feels like a bit of tunnel vision given you lack any peripheral vision. Current buzz about these units is quite good, but the one limitation that comes to mind is that with the Vive's latest wireless adapter release, the Pimax really needs that to help it fully compete.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,194
346
126
the pcworld review indicates that the Quest experience is improved, but the same quasi-fundamental flaw of the Go persists: hand controllers stop tracking beyond the coverage of the mostly forward facing cameras.

i'm sure for the general public this will be good enough to get them onboard vr in concept. it will be something you can show someone without having to qualify or apologize for beforehand.

for the techheads, it is better likened to the rift dks.
go= dk1 ;proof of concept
quest= dk2 ;good enough to do some interesting things

it will be the next iteration that will be the breakthru or failure.


i do think they may really need to rethink how they track objects, such that everything has an inside out camera system (hmd, controllers, belt buckle, shoes)
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
165
106
Does anyone know if the Quest will run Go software? Or are we getting yet another separate Oculus software store?
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,505
357
126
Does anyone know if the Quest will run Go software? Or are we getting yet another separate Oculus software store?
It should have access to occulus store. But it looks like the quest is just built in VR as you don't need a phone or PC to hook up to. Which puts it out of question for people that want to run certain VR games from their PC in VR. I wonder how this will work.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
165
106
It should have access to occulus store. But it looks like the quest is just built in VR as you don't need a phone or PC to hook up to. Which puts it out of question for people that want to run certain VR games from their PC in VR. I wonder how this will work.
Well that's the question, isn't it? It's a standalone VR headset with an ARM SoC. So does it use the Go's store, or is Oculus going to have to run a third store just for the Quest?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
For Beat Saber: $20 on Steam (basically AudioShield with lightsabers, way more fun!)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/620980/Beat_Saber/

Then download the Mod Manager:

https://github.com/Umbranoxio/BeatSaberModInstaller/releases

Beginner's guide here:

https://wiki.assistant.moe/beginners-guide

FAQ here:

https://wiki.assistant.moe/faq

Mod Manager lets you download aftermarket songs using Beat Saver (as well as other plugins, like the Darth Maul lightsaber). Then Beast Saber curates songs: (i.e. reviews, because not all songs have good box mappings)

https://bsaber.com/

Beatdrop is a more advanced version of a song manager:

https://bsaber.com/beatdrop

There's a Discord server here, if you feel like chatting: (several mods channels available too)

https://discord.gg/beatsabermods
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,637
242
106
Wow, who could have guessed this when Facebook purchased Oculus:

Oculus co-founder is leaving Facebook after cancellation of ‘Rift 2’ headset. Iribe and the Facebook executive team had “fundamentally different views on the future of Oculus that grew deeper over time,” and Iribe wasn’t interested in a “race to the bottom” in terms of performance.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/22/oculus-co-founder-is-leaving-facebook-after-cancellation-of-rift-2-headset/

Facebook has come out to say that they will be releasing future Rift products but didn't deny that the Rift 2 as we knew about it is cancelled (in other words, Iribe is correct, they aren't releasing new high end devices and are pivoting to compete with the low end market).

I mean, seriously anyone who didn't see that Facebook was not going to push VR for a high end experience, pushing the boundaries of technology to increase field of view, motion tracking, frame/refresh rates, and resolution was smoking something awfully mind altering. I can only hope that a couple other companies get into this, HTC is most likely not going to push the technology on their own (they were simply unique in the fact that as a phone manufacturer, they had a lot of the engineering teams familiar with small sized display devices with motion detection and had the manufacturing to bringing a device to market quickly once they saw the crowdfunding for Oculus proving there was indeed a market demand for such a device). As much as I hope HTC proves me wrong, I think there needs to be something driving them to release innovative upgraded hardware. Otherwise we will have what Iribe called a "race to the bottom" with just gimmicky Google Daydream View, or Cardboard like devices...
 
Last edited:

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
Wow, who could have guessed this when Facebook purchased Oculus
I mean, it makes sense in a lot of ways:

1. VR is amazing, but not perfect...yet. They've cracked the code with the Oculus & even moreso with the Vive & the infrared Lighthouses. Another generation or two & the wireless transmission systems will be perfect. Graphics horsepower needs to grow in leaps & bounds to support. They need to get to Retina-level screens so that you can't see the pixels. The upcoming Quest's system of wide-angle radars with no Lighthouses is going to be some amazing first-gen wireless 6DOF technology.

2. But, the market isn't huge. It's expensive right now. The code is cracked, but the resolution & pixelization leave a lot to be desired.

3. 6DOF is where it's at. I have a 3DOF Oculus Go & it's just not nearly as fun as the Vive is.

4. Most people don't really want to wear a headset. Most people access Facebook on their phones. Others use a laptop, and some use a desktop. If they can figure out a slim headset with a long battery life with AR features & fix the resolution problems, then yeah, maybe it will take off, but you also need a whole ecosystem in the same vein as Ready Player One for people to really dive into. If they can combine that with like, the Sims, then that'd be a promising start.

I don't want to see VR fail, but HTC is having a rough go at things financially, Facebook isn't really pushing progress, Pimax is working enhancements as best they can, and only a few developers have really committed to making amazing, wonderful games for VR. I think VR has huge potential for entertainment, for training, and especially for more-fun exercise, but like in the case of Virzoom (VR bike), they only sold like 2,000 of them, ran out of money, and had to go get funding to do gym bike VR systems to keep going.

What VR needs is a huge cash infusion to push the hardware & to get some "killer app" games developed. I know Valve is working on a few games; if they release HL3 in VR, like specifically tuned for VR where you HAVE to get it, then it will explode. But it's the same problem with the Nintendo Wii...a super revolutionary controls system that could still be developed to this day, but after just a handful of amazing games, they up & quit. imo, Nintendo should have fostered a triple-A game release every month for 24 month to keep the interest alive...instead, nobody had anything to look forward to, and the Wii U was even worse off.

The Switch is proving to be successful, but not because of the Wiimote-style controllers, rather because of the portability. Same thing for the Xbox Kinect...I have Just Dance, Shape Up, and that's probably about it. That could have been a huuuuuuge platform if they kept developing it, but it's dead - they quit making the Kinect at all, which is sad because it's a really amazing platform!

So while I think Facebook should really take the lead on VR, especially with how much money they could throw at it, I understand why they're going the route they're going. I just hope VR makes it through the sophomore slump...when you play games like Lone Echo or QuiVR or Jet Island, you can see so much amazing potential in the platform, potentially that is largely being wasted right now.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,940
3,086
126
Ugh. Been waiting a long time for '2.0' and now it's less clear that it's even coming.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are waiting for VR 2.0. Vive did the "Pro" thing, but meh. The wireless isn't quite where I want it to be either, so I'm just sticking with the good 'ole cable setup for now, haha.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,637
242
106
Ugh. Been waiting a long time for '2.0' and now it's less clear that it's even coming.
Its crystal clear... 2.0 isn't coming. Everything shown off at all the recent *CON's is now just another prototype never to see the market. It has been cancelled and the head of the entire project has just quit in protest because he doesn't want to be associated with what they want to push on the public.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,505
357
126
That still leaves the Google and lg headset that was speculated to being worked on. Haven't heard anything new from that in a while.

Looks like Samsung released the Odyssey + which improves on the screen door effect and comfort. Might be something I would want to look into because the one I have isn't that comfy around the nose.
 
Last edited:

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS