General VR discussion thread

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Yea, you may not see then screen door, but can you read fine text?
I think that's going to require 8K screens, tbh. I know 4K is coming next & that will help, but you can see how bad the quality is right now even with the 12K-total 360 VR videos. I don't really mind right now as my system is primarily a gaming system & it's okay that everything looks like a video game, but eventually, it would be super-awesome to have a true monitor replacement.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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I think that perhaps many people don't realize this yet and they still see VR as some nerd looking silly with a headset on. (And of course they have a point, but this also will be solved in time). In the same way as people looked "weird" at the people back in the 80s who got "home computers".
Pretty much 100% of the people that I've shown VR to have been blown away. However:

1. The cost is the main factor that throws people off. A PSVR setup from scratch is $900. A Vive is more or less $2,000 if you really want a decent setup. Even the GearVR requires a special, expensive phone, plus the headset & optionally a wireless gamepad.

2. The complexity throws people off as well. The Vive requires mounted lighthouses, a long wire, a large playspace for roomscale, and is still occasionally buggy. The GearVR has the right idea, but a better one will be a standalone unit that you can just buy for like $199 that has the screen & an SoC built-in (iirc, Samsung plans on releasing a unit like that). If they could sell it for like two hundred bucks with a gamepad, I think that would do pretty well because then hey, you can get a nice little VR system for cheaper than a Nintendo Wii setup.

3. Overall, the quality just isn't there yet. PSVR has tracking issues. Vive has SDE. Screens need to be 2.5k, 4k, and really 8k to start having more readable text & eventually be used as television & computer monitor replacements.

We are at the beginning right now. Given how the PSVR is still out of stock everywhere, I'd say the public response to VR is pretty dang good. I am curious to see how AR performs over time as well...
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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One killer, must have, experience and it will sell hardware like Myst sold CD Rom drives, FF sold PS, and Halo sold XBox
 

WhiteNoise

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2016
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I have to agree flexy. Until I actually tried VR I was always in the "it's a fad camp" and I really had no idea how good it really is until I put on my rift for the first time. It truly is mind blowing and I can't see how this could not possibly be the future. Currently cost is what will deter people the most from even trying VR but I think in time costs will come down and that is all it will take to get so many people on the band wagon. It is truly an amazing experience. I look forward to watching this tech evolve.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
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Porn, not games will drive VR to the future. Porn always plays a major role in shaping future tech. (at least video tech). It is cheap to make, and makes billions.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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One killer, must have, experience and it will sell hardware like Myst sold CD Rom drives, FF sold PS, and Halo sold XBox
All they have to do is release HL3 as VR-only & it will skyrocket. Couple that with a Valve package that contains like a Zotac EN1070 & Vive & they'll sell plenty!
 

WhiteNoise

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2016
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Porn, not games will drive VR to the future. Porn always plays a major role in shaping future tech. (at least video tech). It is cheap to make, and makes billions.
For me it has to be great games but I admit...adult VR will most likely push it big time. The downside is those cheap VR headsets are all you need along with your cell phone. But I think picture quality will force those that are serious about their adult VR to eventually buy one of the big VR headsets such as the PSVR, Oculus or Vive which offer much better quality.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
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Porn, yes of course, but I'd really bet a lot of money on "social", since VR allows interactivity and face-to-face communication/meeting at a level that wasn't possible before. Skype, facebook, chat etc. don't compare. This is REALLY "being there" with other people, shaking their hands etc.

People who want to buy a car (just ONE example) can actually *BE* in the car and can even test-drive it in VR. How does this compare to a lowly image of a car? Right: It DOESN'T

People can buy a house and really see and walk in the house before they buy/rent it. (I remember the experience we had renting an appt here which in reality looked absolutely different from the pictures on the site). You can design your dream house in VR etc.

People can book hotels or vacations and can choose them "in VR" with the actual view from their balcony etc...

Art, design, architecture: ENDLESS opportunities right there.

It will have an immense impact and I think the magnitude of it hasn't sunk in to mainstream entirely yet, although many (companies) are already starting to use VR for various purposes.

How about visiting a museum/gallery in VR? How about attending a comedy club in VR? Etc..etc... It's just endless. I think that "real life" meaningful (whatever this is supposed to be) purposes will actually outweigh "gaming"...in terms of what VR can do.

The ol' idea that it VR is an "isolating" experience of course is also total hoagwash. People who say that VR is "isolating" must live under a rock or they don't have a clue/fantasy.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
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I don't think I was clear, while "we" here are looking for other things, in the background, porn will push the direction and form the technology takes because there is a huge demand for lifelike visuals (and interactions). This isn't the same as game creation which is computer animations. In the process it will also make the technology cheaper. Granted, there's a strong possibility it will tilt more towards mobile (phone) VR, than full blown desktop VR.

In the long run it will benefit it all and I agree, there are many other uses for this than just porn and gaming which in the long run will also benefit the technology.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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People can buy a house and really see and walk in the house before they buy/rent it. (I remember the experience we had renting an appt here which in reality looked absolutely different from the pictures on the site). You can design your dream house in VR etc.
That's actually one of the big reasons I bought my Vive, to design my house. The tools are pretty alpha right now tho :(
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
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One of the weirdest things I have experienced so far in VR are "reruns".

This is odd since a movie for example is also basically a "rerun", and games are at times also coming across as scripted, but there I never had this perception of weirdness.

A recorded "rerun" of a conference or some performance...is just really, really odd.
You are basically attending an event with people (respective their avatars) like you are really there, and there is all the notion of that you could interact with these people, they are right in front of you, talk, gestures etc....but the entire event is a "recording". A strange feeling that doesn't happen when you watch a rerun "on a screen in front of your"...but really weird if you're actually part (ie. "inside") this event like in VR :)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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oculus zenimax lawsuit verdict
http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14474198/oculus-lawsuit-verdict

hmm is palmer still nimblerichguy or just nimble guy?

im sure there will be appeals but i wonder how this will affect oculus going forward.
There's a big thread on it in OT. Notes:

1. Palmer is worth $700 mil
2. Iribe is worth $2 bil
3. Facebook paid $2 bil for Oculus; I'm sure they anticipated a lawsuit due to Carmack working for another company during development, among other things - their share probably came out of a slush fund setup well before the 2014 purchase. I would imagine Palmer & Luckey will get some back-end stock deals or something to cover their share. That's business! Just pretend like Facebook paid $2.5 billion...$2 up front, half a billion later :D
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
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FB's long term goals for VR have not yet been put into play. At some point, integration, eye tracking, targeted ads, commercials, etc will all be part of their vision of VR. Since they weren't given an injunction, they can move forward, although I'm not sure if they actually have a plan or not, they didn't just buy Oculus for no reason.
 

WhiteNoise

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Jun 22, 2016
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Yeah I think i have some device that came with my oculus to attach to the guitar. Back in the day me and the wife played all of these rock star and guitar hero games but Ive been burnt out for years. Not sure I'd want to dive back in but the concept is cool. The down side is no band though. Just guitar and maybe vocals?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Yeah I think i have some device that came with my oculus to attach to the guitar. Back in the day me and the wife played all of these rock star and guitar hero games but Ive been burnt out for years. Not sure I'd want to dive back in but the concept is cool. The down side is no band though. Just guitar and maybe vocals?
Apparently the vocal part has improved over time, I can only imagine how cool it will be in the future when they can do like a live Auto-tune & rate you on inflection, emotion, etc.

Drumming was my favorite part though!
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
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Since I have VR I also checked out several "social VR" apps, including of course AltSpace, HighFidelity and now VRChat.
(I have been on VRChat a few times previously but it was always empty, but on Feb 1st they went live on Steam...and ever since there is tons of people on there)

VRChat (for me) blows ALL VR apps including many games out of the water, it is so amazing and I have seen/experienced so many things there it borders the hideous. It is not only extremely well-done from a technical point of view, but provides tons of things to actually do, including games like CTF, bowling etc. There are hundreds of worlds since everyone can build words and avatars using their SDK and upload them. And uh, it's FREE.

So after an amazing week hanging out in VRChat where I have seen extremely cool stuff (check out that MMD stage with the dancing anime, it's amazing even if anime is not my thing at all!), let me just recap a typical day today:

* One of the hosts/mods there, Gunter has a weekly talk show. I have seen Gunter a few times on VRChat, he is very cool. He has a custom avatar like I have, except that I am a hot girl :) :) and his avatar is actually how he looks in real life. He is this "pony tail dude with tatoos" sort of person.

I LOVE about his avatar the way he moves in VR, his gestures etc. When he talks, etc..it looks very real how he points and moves his arms/hands..unlike some of us who are sitting on a chair when we are in VR. I mean I can also move my arms etc....but it just comes across as very real when he does it. Very "animated" in the most-real sense.

So..I haven't attended this talk show yet and this was the first show after VRCHat went on Steam, also sort-of like a test run for them.

The space for the show is very well designed, with video screens on the wall, audience seating and then of course in the middle Gunter the host and there was two guys, VR game developers. This first "test" talkshow was about the latest and upcoming VR games, topic was "ok", more like casual chitchat. Saw some trailers for upcoming games like Robo Recall etc.. As said it was only just some type of test-run for this show.

Because VRChat has seen explosive growth since they're on Steam.....there had been a recent influx of trolls and of course they disrupted the talk show for a few minutes. One of them made racist comments...and someone else somehow managed to mute everyone. So they had to reset the room and everyone had to manually un-mute people, each and every one. Well,stuff happens. Anyway, VERY good impression from this talkshow alone, eg. compared to AltSpaceVR. There was about 30 or so people there.

After some break many folks went to "The Pug" which is a bar in VR, sort-of like a favorite hangout where you can also often meet devs and other folks from VRChat. I see that McMuze is there. (McMuze is a live-performer who plays guitar in VR and I have also seen him on HiFi previously. I had a short chat with him the day before about VRChat and how amazing I think it is. I told him it's great to see him there since what VRChat needs is more events/live performances to make it really perfect).

So I went to "The Pug" and there is about 25 people or so, and McMuze performing his live music. There were also most devs and also Gunter from earlier. (Gunter sort-of reminds me of Kramer from Seinfeld ...this time he had a differently clothed avatar and was smoking a fat cigar while dancing on the floor, lol). And of course there was lots of guys with hideous avatars from robots to giant marshmallow men and the usual skeletons etc, always lots of fun seeing what custom avatars people have)

What I love about The Pug is how the people in there are "totally going with it" you REALLY feel you *are* in an actual bar, somewhere. For example, the bar tender asks what you want and gives you drinks (or food, or whatever). There are chairs and tables, etc..and people actually sitting there and talking well..like in real life.

Some anime toon girl (I am starting to like these avatars) was going around and serving shots and putting food on the tables. Virtual burgers and whatnot. Somehow, someone came up with the idea to reward the performer with the virtual food, so they piled up all kinds of plates and drinks around the stage for him :)

There is also a portable camera in VRchat, currently just one (I think devs have it) but they plan to give everyone one. So people went around and took pictures and selfies etc. The pictures then come out of the camera like from a Polaroid, you can pick them up, even pin them at the wall in VR...or tweet them etc.

I had a good laugh seeing the bartender in VR actually bothering to take virtual bottles and glasses and put them back into the storage thing behind the bar so that everything is neatly in its place.

Not to mention the games they have in VRCHat like CTF or the Sheriff/Bandit game.

The coolest thing is that the guys there are extremely motivated, friendly and helpful. I am on their Slack dev channel just to learn about Unity, Blender, making custom avatars etc. Everyone is working on something, building and adding stuff....they also have guides on Youtube etc. about working with Unity and how to design worlds or games.

It's simply VERY good and if you have a Rift or Vive, check it out. One of the best VR experiences by far.
 
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jimrawr

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Mar 4, 2003
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Is it worth buying either the Rift or the Vive for sit down gaming? I dont really have the desire to get a second PC to put in a room where I can do VR, so sitting is the only option for me at the moment. Are there any GREAT games that you can play sitting with a controller?
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
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We have a spare room which I *definitely* want to make into a "fitness" (for wife) and VR room. Because sooner or later, I am telling you, you WANT more space! I am still sitting in a very constraint space ATM behind a desk, and yes it's worth it! Not all games demand larger play spaces.

As for your Q..since I am incredibly restricted moving about here...I *only* play those things where I can sit. Except when it gets hectic in *some* games which are not necessarily made for sitting, like CTF kinds of games, or The Unspoken or whatever...I always risk smashing my monitor. (It already has a slight scratch from me bumping into it with Touch :) That being said there are plenty of games which you can play comfortably sitting. Probably more on the Rift than on Vive.

Also..if you don't ever plan to expand playing in a larger area (like 6ft x 6ft) and you use the classic, "recommended" setup for the Rift with two sensors front facing, you'll LIKELY not run into any problems some people report with 3+ sensor "experimental" room scale setups on the Rift.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
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Is it worth buying either the Rift or the Vive for sit down gaming? I dont really have the desire to get a second PC to put in a room where I can do VR, so sitting is the only option for me at the moment. Are there any GREAT games that you can play sitting with a controller?
I wouldn't say there are any GREAT games, more like great experiences. There are some really fun games, and many of them are standing in one spot or sitting, so that wouldn't be an issue, however 99% of them are very short, and more like arcade games. The Rift's catalog at the moment would be better suited for that.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Rec Room added a multi-player Quest Mode, awesome!

 

WhiteNoise

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2016
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Is it worth buying either the Rift or the Vive for sit down gaming? I dont really have the desire to get a second PC to put in a room where I can do VR, so sitting is the only option for me at the moment. Are there any GREAT games that you can play sitting with a controller?
If You plan to mainly sit down then the Oculus might be the better choice. In either case sitting or standing is doable. I have a small space for VR so I mainly just stand. I do have roomscale setup with my Oculus using 3 sensors but my space is limited. 3.5 feet wide by 6 feet long. I can play most games without issue but one game is pretty much impossible and any game like it would be tuff. SuperHot is a really cool game but you have to move around so much, ducking, walking, swinging your arms all over the place. This game is so hard to play in a tight space. It cannot be played sitting down.

Many games that require motion controllers and room scale will be tuff to play and these seem to be the games that keep releasing. Many of the Oculus games are sit down due to Oculus not having motion controllers until recently. They had always focused on the sit down experience but once the motion controllers released I have found that I have to stand for many games. A non issue most of the time unless it is a game like Superhot or a boxing game. The boxing game I have is fun and a great work out but I have punched things around the room. lol The boxing game has me standing in the room, turning around, taking quick steps left and right, dodging, ducking, throwing jabs, round houses etc...I had to stop playing this for fear of breaking something.

So yeah you can do it sit down but not all games support that mode. Many are at least standing but some require roomscale. I can't even setup roomscale with steamVR because my area is not large enough and Steam won't let me activate it. :(

Anyways good luck!
 

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