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General VR discussion thread

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WhiteNoise

Senior member
Jun 22, 2016
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In the future, I think the majority of the games will catch up on the Rift...no developer wants to miss out on doubling the accessibility of their game. What am I curious about is whether or not the ability to use more cameras will be a big game changer on the Rift...
According to reviews it definitely helps. With the touch controllers you have a second camera and you can buy additional cameras. The Rift supports up to 4 cameras now. I did read one review with the Rift being used with 3 cams and it worked well according to a review but even two cams provide a good room scale experience. The ability to have your hands in game now makes the rift a true VR experience.

Now that Oculus has removed DRM from their games allowing Vive owners to play their games...and make money for Oculus I cannot see Rift being the under dog for long.

The Vive is a great system according to reviews so and the Rift has finally caught up with providing a true VR experience so all in all I hope both platforms do really well. I don't see a point of each system having exclusive titles. If each VRset can play all the games then both companies make money. Time will tell though.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
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Yep, RoomScale is where VR Lives and Thrives. It's the "True" VR experience. Rift and Vive now both being here is exciting.

To me two things still separate the Vive from Rift. Vive and Valve's partnership which provides a seamless and frankly exciting gaming platform for VR. I think this partnership excells Vive beyond the Rift at this point in time.

The second thing is the physical setup for roomscale. Here the Vive wins.

Rift Requires it's Room Scale Sensors (3 are recommended) to be connected to the PC via USB. This is a big deal because it's a PITA to route those cables (especially from the Rear Sensor) to the PC. The benefit for Rift is that it allows additional sensors to be setup (up to 12 IIRC?) which can enhance tracking. Vive's sensors simply plug into a power outlet.

Room Scale becomes amazing when your play space approaches 10'x10'. The Vive can do this well with it's two included sensors. I'm curious how many Rift Sensors are needed for this size to achieve great tracking.

One negative for the Vive is the Headset is not as comfortable as the Rift, a huge deal for extended play sessions.


Beyond all this, which is all very good as the Vive and the Rift create the new standard for "True VR", there is still misconception about VR to those not aware of Room Scale. A lot of folks have no idea what True VR is, it will be great when what we are experiencing with the Rift and Vive RoomScale becomes the standard.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
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Oculus really needs to come up with a different way to track though. 4 cameras in USB is rediculous...most computers USB hubs cannot handle 3 let alone 4. Tracking is twitchy and unreliable.

As for comfort...I keep hearing how comfortable the Rift is compared to the Vive...I think they are about the same. The heat seems to be higher on the Rift as well. I shouldn't be sweating seated as much as I do when running around my room with the Vive.
 

WhiteNoise

Senior member
Jun 22, 2016
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As much as I think room scale is cool, for me sitting and standing are the preferred method. I do not have the space for 15x15 where my rift is installed. Though I do have the option to move it to a larger space if I want.

So far I have had no comfort issues with the rift for extended periods of time and I can wear my glasses comfortably as well. That was my biggest worry but it has proved to be a non issue. My face does not get hot at all either. The Rift is very comfortable and very light.

One thing I have learned in the past couple of days is I love VR and in the next couple of years I will without a doubt upgrade to the next gen units. I'm happy with the VR experience I'm having now but once the image quality improves with newer updated units I will have to upgrade. IMO that is the only thing holding VR back right now from being a truly immersive experience.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
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As for comfort...I keep hearing how comfortable the Rift is compared to the Vive...I think they are about the same. The heat seems to be higher on the Rift as well. I shouldn't be sweating seated as much as I do when running around my room with the Vive.
I agree. I find the HMDs on par. The Touch controllers are pretty cool, but I don't really find them superior to the Vive wands. There will also be some new controllers from Valve that look a step beyond even Touch.

As much as I think room scale is cool, for me sitting and standing are the preferred method. I do not have the space for 15x15 where my rift is installed. Though I do have the option to move it to a larger space if I want.
Most of the time my Vive is in a 2m x 2.5m space and I have no problem with most applications. I have moved it out to my living room for a full 5m x 5m space every now and then, but my theater room works most of the time with the smaller area.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
*** CAUTION Every discussion about "X is better than Y" here cannot be constructive :) ***

There are lots of misconceptions in the post above...seems to me that Attic is still spreading the myth that "Rift cannot do roomscale" which (sorry to say it so bluntly) is nonsense. There are videos out there with guys doing some mini-roomscale WITH ONE SENSOR.

You say "simply plug into a power outlet", yes this is correct, but ever thought about the possibility that not every location in a room might have a power outlet where you need it? Ultimately you MIGHT end up with the same hassles, BOTH need some type of connection.

* Why I choose the Rift?
Since the requirement needing to make a larger space to even set up for VR was a big turnoff for me. I remember researching the manuals before I made my decision, and the first thing I saw when I looked into setting up the Vive was moving around furniture and wall-mounting the sensors? Beg you pardon? I chose the Rift since setting it up fast for getting into VR is super-easy, with one tiny sensor on my desk..AND THIS IS IT...while having the option to expand later. And the option to expand later means also initial lower costs as compared to the Vive.

PLUS: Most importantly, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other. For example, right now I still have a spare room which I WANT to make into a VR/fitness room/office maybe in spring. Right now that room is chilly :) AT THIS POINT however I am extremely limited in space, the Rift is simply better suited *for me personally*.

* You mention the Valve partnership
Sadly, what I see on Steam is at times AWFUL. Unfinished demos, pre-alphas and basically whatever crap some devs release. While Steam is a fantastic platform to get stuff, don't let the quantity cloud judgement. Oculus has really a polished store now, yes there is also SOME crap but we could argue that some of the better/best titles now are actually on Oculus and NOT on steam.

Also: I am playing Vive/Steam stuff on my Rift all the time. Steam just updated recently and there is pretty much 99% support for Rift. I playing Space Pirate Trainer, Google VR and countless demos/apps which never even have been made "for Rift". (Sorry not listingmy entire collection of games now. NOT MANY of them are Oculus exclusives, most are actually from Steam!=

* I got Touch yesterday and it's simply ingenious. They may look awkward..but if you use them....how they're designed and work is just...MIND.BLOWINGLY.GOOD. Obviously as anyone would confirm, it adds a whole new level to Rifting. The Touch controllers ARE really awesome and I personally would not want to carry oversized wands.

* USB troubles? I am obviously only using two sensors now, but I don't have any. I got me passive 2m extension cables from ebay for cheap, works perfectly and connect the sensors at USB3.0. This makes *one* single sensor now having a reach of 2+2.5m = 14.7ft!!!
Means I don't see ANY problem whatsoever in (eventually) setting up "true" Roomscale, like 10x10', in fact I can't see a reason why this wouldn't work. Worst case scenario I would need a 3rd or possibly 4rd sensor. (There is no technical problems for me, rather really having the space for such a setup)

* Also, risking that I may sound like a fanboy. The built-in headphones of the Rift are *awesome*. I already wrote praise about them on the Oculus forum. I am picky when it comes to sound. Not an audiophile, but I like nice, deep bass and not tinny "gamer sound" like you get when you buy a headset or a mp3 player today. The Rift headphones are really delivering a well rounded, powerful but not overdone sound, probably the "best" sound I ever had from headphones.
 
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Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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Ultimately you MIGHT end up with the same hassles, BOTH need some type of connection.
Except that you can run Lighthouses off batteries, which plenty people have done. There is no manner of wireless connection viable for the sensors.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
>>
The Touch controllers are pretty cool, but I don't really find them superior to the Vive wands.
>>

To be honest, the only thing I can NOT do with Touch is "flicking someone off" in VR, and I think this is by design to stay "PC" and they could have given us the option since you can move the fingers and everything :) I have no clue how the Vive wands work...but I have reason to believe that I can do things with Touch that you guys can't. (I am not informed whether the wands even allow individual finger movements, making fists, pointing, or moving the thumbs up/down). If the wands don't allow this, then this is not even a remote comparison.

In VR, this is awesome..you can handle things "like in real life", the feeling of grabbing and "handling" stuff is really very, very good. That's why I said whoever designed them...these things are ingenious. Now just from looking at the wands (and I may be wrong there and the actual feel in VR might be different), they don't even look intuitive to me. They look more like "tools" but not an extension of an actual hand in VR.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
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The whole 'power to lighthouse' thing is bunk. It is much easier to get an extension cord than it is to get USB extensions. I know people are clamoring for anything they can to prove Rift is better than Vive, but it really is a nonsense argument IMO:

Vive lighthouses > Rift Cameras
Rift built in headphones > Vive plug
Vive visuals > Rift godrays
Steam for front end > Oculus Home
Comfort, as I mentioned above...not really a difference except for the headphones. They are so much nicer than the buds, or using 3rd party headphones.

Haven't tried touch so can't comment on that part and I really don't plan to anytime soon.

Games...well...hard to say really. Honestly, not blown away in terms of any great things that one does that the other doesn't. I think it again comes down to preference of game types.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
The whole 'power to lighthouse' thing is bunk. It is much easier to get an extension cord than it is to get USB extensions. I know people are clamoring for anything they can to prove Rift is better than Vive, but it really is a nonsense argument IMO:

Vive lighthouses > Rift Cameras
Rift built in headphones > Vive plug
Vive visuals > Rift godrays
Steam for front end > Oculus Home
Comfort, as I mentioned above...not really a difference except for the headphones. They are so much nicer than the buds, or using 3rd party headphones.

Haven't tried touch so can't comment on that part and I really don't plan to anytime soon.

Games...well...hard to say really. Honestly, not blown away in terms of any great things that one does that the other doesn't. I think it again comes down to preference of game types.
Most of the arguments might be nonsense-arguments since we can debate the differences all day and night, both systems have their pros and cons. It's more one of these "discussions for the sake of entertainment" :)

Look, I got me the cheapest passive 2m USB3.0 extensions I could find on ebay...and they work flawlessly at USB3.0. This is all I can add there. OTOH, you are of course correct, my previous statement with the power outlets was silly since I did in-fact not consider the availbility of simple power extension cables :)

Steam is "subjectively" the better front end, and I actually love the Steam interface in VR, the OH just doesn't provide much functionality BUT "looking nice". But that being said, the amount of junk on Steam is also staggering. But since we can use both (I mean I do every day!) steam and oculus home, it cannot be an argument pro or con Rift. In fact it would speak for the Rift since I can play (MOST) from Steam without needing the Revive hack.

Visuals? Yes, possible. Can't say because I never tried the Vive. Common notion is that it comes out the same, god-rays are traded for SDE etc...so no clear "winner" there I think.

Headphones as I mentioned previously, they are really, really good. And light and comfortable. This is was one of my arguments pro Rift....not that the need for a plug would be a unsolvable problem, it sure ain't...but the quality of the headphones really surprised me. Far exceeds what you'd expect with typical "gamer hardware" in terms of sound quality. As a whole...it's just one more thing which adds to a quick and easy "out of the box experience", where the Vive would need a lot more, including that you'd need headphones.

Rift in general, and also Touch...again was stupidly simple to setup. I am not denying that some/numerous/many (?) people have troubles with setup, USB, tracking whatever. Judging from posts on the O support forum is always a thing that you need to take with a grain of salt. But I am *assuming* that for the average, normal person, getting "into VR" with the Rift might be far easier and more streamlined...which makes it possibly more suited for less technically inclined people. And this is important if a system wants mass-appeal.

**

Edit this just as a side note: I think it was last week where I came across some article from a show where they featured the new/upcoming wireless pack for Vive (which is another "can of worms" topic right there)....with some girl having strapped an entire mini-PC on her back, with the Vive, massive headphones on and controllers etc. She looked like an astronaut getting ready for spacewalk.

As "cool" as this looked because of the "nerd factor"...so totally ridiculous it was. I don't in a million years think that the "average" person will strap a ton of gear on themselves to get into VR...the picture just looked in some way really silly at second glance. I don't think this is the future of VR. Arcades, military training etc...ok...but sure not for "normal" people
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
those were just my opinions. most people in the Rift camp disagree with much of it. It is odd that I found oculus SOO much more of a pain to set up than the Vive though. The thing was so broken in the beginning..and that may be why I think worse of it. It took a number of upgrades before it was stable and not crashing every other minute and it still has too many issues with USB for something that costs as much as it does. They need to start investing some of that FB money in drivers.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,011
3,118
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The thing to keep in mind is that all of this is still bleeding-edge technology. We are all early adopters. I say yay for Oculus getting onboard with Roomscale. From what I've read, adding a third (or fourth) camera solves certain detection problems in Roomscale...I don't have many with my Vive, but there are limitations to what two cameras can do when you're doing certain moves that hide the controllers from either camera.

I really wish there were more Vive wireless kits available from TPcast, that's probably the one big feature I really wish I had, although it's certainly not a dealbreaker. Really the #1 thing I want is full-length games...I'm dying to finish Budget Cuts!
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
For some odd reason I never understand they "recommend" some Innateck USB3.0 card for those people who seem to have problems with USB ports. (I fortunately don't). And the Innateck drivers are the problem, something with their power management, these drivers force the ports to always safe power. It may well be that other boards have flaky USB ports/solutions as well. I can't say anything about it.

Maybe I came to the party "right in time" AFTER (?) many flaws had been fixed, and now also Steam basically fully supporting Oculus/Touch....I found the setup simple and flawless. It was really like..plug Rift in, download software...click here and there and then everything runs. With Touch it was the same. (Ok I am lying, it complained about my rather unconventional sensor setup (wanted me to rotate one sensor)...but at some point I just skipped this part. It works fine here. But then I don't have a typical sensor setup, one sensor is much further away to the side on a shelf..away from cats)

As mentioned previously, since these cables are now ~15ft (w/ the extension) and seem to work without problem at USB3.0, I can't see for the life of me why I would ever have problems with setup, say if I plan to put this in a dedicated room.

Ok, I am lying again..there are some (minor) quirks but these I have figured out:
For example, once in a while (rarely), the Rift might show as USB2.0. Usually rebooting the s/w or the entire PC fixes this.
There is also a (very) rare circumstance where the Rift is not seen when I start up O. Here too, a reboot fixes this. I think this is a general problem with my USB ports because I also (on occasion) have the issue that an USB sound card is displayed with a yellow exclamation mark in device manager...although I didn't even touch or move the card, it's always plugged in. I guess it's some timing problem from initializing the ports. But since these things happen rarely I don't consider these a problem. When I boot my PC and then check Oculus devices and see everything connected fine as USB3.0 (which is the case 9 of 10 times)...it stays like this.
 

WhiteNoise

Senior member
Jun 22, 2016
988
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Ive only had the rift for a few days now but when it came time to set it up I had zero issues. My motherboard has 5+ USB 3 ports built in and it was as simple as plugging in the USB cables and doing the Oculus setup. Within minutes I was experiencing my first VR demo. I also have not had any connection issues. The Rift so far (knock on wood) has worked flawlessly.

@flexy I have to agree about the rift speakers. I am what some would call an audiophile though I myself think I just really love great sounding music and equipment. These built in headphones are shockingly good considering what they are. The sound output is perfect for VR and I totally don't feel like swapping in one of my expensive headphones.
 
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Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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Given how expensive these things are, it's nice to know that I didn't bumpy the obviously wrong device. I'm also glad that those already into the rift feel like they too didn't buy the obviously wrong device.

Looking at it from a distance: I would still suggest the Vive - but I don't think that oculus folks are missing out on something major anymore, and that makes me feel better about saying I prefer the Vive.

I admit, it would be nice to have built in headphones.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
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There definitely is no "wrong" device seeing that *essentially* the both are same and none of them is perfect.The cos and pros exist merely so we nerds/geeks can endlessly debate and compare penis sizes online :)
 
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flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
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Holy crap I just discovered "The Lab" experience by Valve. I am blown away. Hands down the best VR "experience" I have seen to-date. And I have seen many and played many VR games already. I missed this previously simply because it required motion controllers which I didn't have. This really is *brilliant* in so many ways. So points to Attic since he might not be wrong when he praised Valve there. Man I wished more VR titles would be on this level of quality. (If you have a Rift and Touch and a little space [not too much], check this out!!) This makes 90% of current VR titles look pathetic (which I guess they really are), and I am serious.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Holy crap I just discovered "The Lab" experience by Valve. I am blown away. Hands down the best VR "experience" I have seen to-date. And I have seen many and played many VR games already. I missed this previously simply because it required motion controllers which I didn't have. This really is *brilliant* in so many ways. So points to Attic since he might not be wrong when he praised Valve there. Man I wished more VR titles would be on this level of quality. (If you have a Rift and Touch and a little space [not too much], check this out!!) This makes 90% of current VR titles look pathetic (which I guess they really are), and I am serious.
There's a zillion little easter eggs in the Lab too. I'm not kidding. There's probably at least a couple dozen things tucked away other than the obvious stuff in there, including a couple secret rooms.

Also, if you liked the archery game in the Lab, check out QuiVR...very addicting!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,011
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Interesting & possibly VR-friendly audio device:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/03/lg-tone-studio-hands-on/

The LG "Tone Studio"...four speakers; two on the top of the neckband for mids & highs, and two on the bottom for "bass". Kind of a quasi-surround-sound setup. This might be an interesting way to add more dynamic audio to virtual reality spaces:

Most importantly, it actually sounds quite good. Maximum volume is plenty loud for listening to tunes in a crowded press room, and it does a pretty great job of simulating surround sound (thanks to the integrated DTS support). Two demos in particular stuck out: While watching the trailer for Star Wars: The Force Awakens, I could hear TIE Fighters whizzing around my head as though I were in space myself, and gameplay footage of Grand Theft Auto V was full of gunshots and corresponding vibrations whenever the player pulled the trigger.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
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There's a zillion little easter eggs in the Lab too. I'm not kidding. There's probably at least a couple dozen things tucked away other than the obvious stuff in there, including a couple secret rooms.

Also, if you liked the archery game in the Lab, check out QuiVR...very addicting!
Yeah researching a good archery game was actually what brought me to "The Lab" although I heard the name mentioned many times already. I just thought it's "yet another neat but forgettable" VR demo, like most of them are. I didn't expect it that entertaining.

"First contact" (if you mean the Touch tutorial scene with the robot) is "ok", but Dreamdeck sort-of looks like a joke compared to this :)
By the way, the archery in The Lab....I found it..well..not exactly overwhelming. It feels a little weak to my taste, like shooting with a toy bow.

I just got a good laugh out of observing the "flat guys" in the warehouse...everyone is basically doing exactly what is a big no-no in a warehouse. I found it funny since I once worked in a warehouse. I guess there is much more to explore. Ah yeah, I also found this drone...and then that "secret room" store which was also amazingly well done. Had to show the wife :)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,011
3,118
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One of the things where I am not sure whether it's incredibly cool or incredibly silly :)
I bought a Subpac, which is a VR backpack with a bass shaker in it. It was like $350 (ouch). It does have a nice kick, but it's yet another thing to put on & I'd really be more happy with it at like a $69 pricepoint. For stuff like AudioShield & HoloPoint, it does add to the immersion, but it's definitely not something "necessary" to real VR like Roomscale is, so whether or not things like VR boots will take off remains to be seen. Wireless HMD's will be a nice upgrade; Vive already shipped out a small batch (the China order), but definitely not a dealbreaker having a wire...you get used to walking around it pretty quickly.

What I would like is an omni-directional treadmill. But I'm not going to invest in one until they either get more refined or get more games support. Plus it would eat up all of my Roomscale space, so maybe they could invent a fold-apart unit or something.
 

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