General upgrade questions (gaming PC)

[altonu]

Right now, I have an aging system that can still play most of the games I want, but not necessarily at top settings and/or good frame rates, and I'm trying to weigh my options for the most improvement for my investment in upgrades.

The games I play most often are Civ 5 and Everquest 2 which both run well enough in most cases, and both are more CPU intensive than GPU to my understanding (for EQ2, raw single-core clock speed seems to be the single most important factor, but I think my GPU is holding me back for high quality textures, and for Civ, the major downtime is between turns while the AI is thinking), but I also enjoy games like Bioshock, Dishonored, Deus-Ex, Fallout and Skyrim and would like to play those with high quality textures (2 and 4k texture when available) at 1920x1080 (native resolution of my monitor), and if I'm making an upgrade now, I'd like it to handle similar upcoming games at decent frame rates. I don't do the PVP games like COD or Battlefield, so 60+ frame rates are not required, but it would be nice if I could expect most games to not drop below 30fps at high settings most of the time.

Current system.

ASUS P5N-D
CORE 2 DUO E8400
BFG Tech GeForce 9800 GT (1GB DDR3)
4GB KINGSTON KHX6400D2K2/4G
- DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
- Timing 5-5-5-15
- Cas Latency 5
ANTEC SONATA III 500 (case and PSU)
SAMSUNG 750GB HD753LJ SATAII 7200RPM
Windows 7 - 32bit

My initial thought was to upgrade just the video card (was thinking a GTX 650 ti or GTX 660 (I've had bad experience with ATI driver support before so I plan to stick with Nvidia)), but I'm concerned about what kind of GPU my PSU can actually support and also if using a PCIE2 motherboard will be a bottleneck for newer GPUs as well as how much of a bottleneck my CPU would be.

I also just recently switched to Windows 7, but its a student version in its 30 day activation window, and I know I can DL the ISO for 64 bit and use the same code (and I'm in the process of doing that), but once I use the code, it will be locked to whatever motherboard I am using, so I'm thinking I should evaluate upgrading my motherboard, CPU and RAM as well, but that can add quite a bit to the upgrade cost, so that's where I want to know how much better ivybridge and haswell are compared to my Core 2 duo E8400 for single core games to know if its worthwhile or not. If I stick with my existing board and try to get the most out of it, I can go up to 8GB RAM when I switch to a 64 bit OS, but I would still need to get new memory since I'm already using both memory banks. On a similar note, if I upgrade to a new motherboard, will I need new memory right away, or will it just run a bit slower if I don't move up to DDR3 (would make the upgrade costs more manageable if I could do the RAM upgrade later)?

I'd like to keep my upgrade budget in the $400 or less range, but if I would see a substantial boost from spending a bit more, I might be convinced to do that. I usually order from newegg or mwave in the states. Would like to make a decision on parts before my windows 7 validation window ends, so ideally next week or so.



Thanks.

 

[Seba]

Because of Windows 7 activation thing (and on lesser extent, because you say that your two main games/most played games are CPU intensive), I say that you should upgrade MB+CPU+RAM first and add a much better (than the current one) graphics card (and probably another PSU) later.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Because of Windows 7 activation thing (and on lesser extent, because you say that your two main games/most played games are CPU intensive), I say that you should upgrade MB+CPU+RAM first and add a much better (than the current one) graphics card (and probably another PSU) later.

Unfortunately I agree, except that I think you might as well upgrade the gpu now as well. If you upgrade to a new cpu, I think that 9800GT will definitely hold you back, especially if you are gaming at 1080p.

Both those games favor intel, and the E8400 was fast for its time, but you really need to upgrade to a more recent quad such as 3570k, or 4670k, or even one of the lower end IVB or haswell quads if you dont plan to overclock. For the video card, I dont know if supplies have dried up, but prices on 78xx and 79xx AMD cards have been fantastic. Something like a HD7870 or 7950 would be a huge improvement over the 9800GT.

 

[Techhog]

Unfortunately I agree, except that I think you might as well upgrade the gpu now as well. If you upgrade to a new cpu, I think that 9800GT will definitely hold you back, especially if you are gaming at 1080p.

Both those games favor intel, and the E8400 was fast for its time, but you really need to upgrade to a more recent quad such as 3570k, or 4670k, or even one of the lower end IVB or haswell quads if you dont plan to overclock. For the video card, I dont know if supplies have dried up, but prices on 78xx and 79xx AMD cards have been fantastic. Something like a HD7870 or 7950 would be a huge improvement over the 9800GT.

He doesn't want AMD (though based on his system that's probably based on an ancient experience), and he doesn't have the budget for all of those upgrades right now.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

i5 3470 $190 plus 10% off = $.171. free ship
Biostar mobo $50.- plus 15% off = 42. free ship
Crucial 4gb memory for $32.- with free ship (grab another stick at some point when funds allow so you have 2x4gb for dual channel)
Evga GTX 660 for $180. and $160 after rebate free ship

After discounts and rebates I think I went over your budget by $10.-

 

[altonu]

Thanks for the replies,

I do not plan to overclock it, but having the option for when it gets old is always nice. Yes, my bad experiences were with older Radeons (back before the AMD merger/buyout), but the fact that I've had good experiences with my all my previous NVidia cards makes me very reluctant to switch.

The list monkeydelmagico assembled looks very good, but spending a bit more for a 3570k (even if I don't OC it) seems worthwhile, and if I can find a MB with WiFi built in for not too much more that would be another worthwhile step up from my initial budget. Would looking for a motherboard with 4 banks of ram that supports 32GB hurt performance if I only fill 2 banks of it?

 

[mfenn]

Monkey, that's not bad given the price. However, I'd swap the GPU out for a 7870 Myst, also $160 AR. Its performance is close to a 7950, which is much faster than the GTX 660.

EDIT: I don't really see the point in getting a 3570K if you're not going to overclock it. You'd be spending $40 for 200 MHz. That same money would be better spent on more RAM.

As for WiFi, I recommend against spending more for a motherboard that has it integrated. You can get a PCIe card for $10 that you can carry between motherboards. Also, no, filling 2 DIMM slots in a 4 DIMM slot motherboard will not affect performance.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Monkey, that's not bad given the price. However, I'd swap the GPU out for a 7870 Myst, also $160 AR. Its performance is close to a 7950, which is much faster than the GTX 660.

EDIT: I don't really see the point in getting a 3570K if you're not going to overclock it. You'd be spending $40 for 200 MHz. That same money would be better spent on more RAM.

As for WiFi, I recommend against spending more for a motherboard that has it integrated. You can get a PCIe card for $10 that you can carry between motherboards. Also, no, filling 2 DIMM slots in a 4 DIMM slot motherboard will not affect performance.

Yes, if it was my money i would go for a 7870 or 7950 too but OP wants Nvidia. The 660 or a 650ti boost is about the best I can do for him.

Agreed, unless you are sure you are going to overclock then the 3570k is not worth the $$$. You will also need an aftermarket cooler in order to extract the potential from the overclock. Figure another $30.- at least in order to cool the chip during overclock.

Agreed, integrated wifi adds $50.- to the mobo price while a Rosewill pcie aftermarket card is $9.-.

 

[altonu]

Thanks again. If there is that much difference between the 7870 and the GTX 660, then I may think about giving ATI/AMD another try (I do have a strong Nvidia preference, but that does not mean I can't be persuaded if its a huge difference in price/power) Need to do some digging on the EQ2 forums and find out if radeons are less problematic than they used to be - no point in getting the faster card if it is buggy in one of my primary games.

Sounds like the 3470 with a separate wifi card is the way to go for me then.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks again. If there is that much difference between the 7870 and the GTX 660, then I may think about giving ATI/AMD another try (I do have a strong Nvidia preference, but that does not mean I can't be persuaded if its a huge difference in price/power) Need to do some digging on the EQ2 forums and find out if radeons are less problematic than they used to be - no point in getting the faster card if it is buggy in one of my primary games.

Sounds like the 3470 with a separate wifi card is the way to go for me then.

Here's a comparison with the 7950 and the GTX 660 (the 7870 Myst is basically a 7950). As you can see the 7950 wins most games, including Civ 5.

 

[altonu]

Thanks again. I've done a bit more research, and while I am considering the 7870 Myst or possibly a 7950, I'd like to think long term to better enjoy games like Skyrim and Fallout which can exceed 2GB of VRAM use (and presumably any sequels will use even more), so I'm leaning toward the core parts that monkeydelmagico suggested with an additional 4GB RAM, but still having a hard time deciding on the GPU.

I've accepted that my budget was insufficient, and while I don't want to spend a ton on a card, I'm trying to decide if a card with 3 or 4GB would be worth the investment (something I could get 3+ years of gaming as I've done with my 9800GT), or if I'd be better off going with the Myst then upgrading when Fallout 4 comes out (release date unknown, but I'm anticipating it to be in the next year or two), which would mean ~160 for a card now and another ~150-250 for a card a year or two from now, in which case splurging for a 760 or 670 with 3+ GB VRAM might be the better choice (I have seen some around the 300 price point with 4GB).

I'm considering the following cards at the moment

The Myst mentioned above
In addition to apprehension of driver support, I am concerned about it only having 2GB, which would be fine for now, but might not be a year or two from now.


EVGA SuperClocked 03G-P4-2666-KR GeForce GTX 660 3GB - 219.99 AR

Asus GTX660 TI-DC2OC-3GD5 GeForce GTX 660 Ti Graphic Card 3 GB - 229.99 AR

It looks like I missed out on the really good deals on the 7950s, so even if I was more open to them, I'm not sure how good an option those are compared to a 760 or 670 (they do all seem to come with 3GB default which is a strong selling point for me).

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Well, I found a Zotac 670 with 4GB for around $280 after shipping, so I decided to got for it (it also included Batman Arkham Origins which is a game I will actually play and probably would have got myself for Christmas so that was kind a tipping point in its favor (already have the other two batman games)) - I usually spend $175-225 when I get a new GPU, so while I ended up going over my desired budget by a fair amount, I'm very satisfied with the bargains you all helped me find on the CPU/MB/RAM, so I think I'm set on major upgrades for at least the next two years and hopefully 3+.