General investing and Roth IRA questions

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
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If I'm understanding correctly:
-Unemployed in July. Subsequently picked up a Kaiser plan (via ACA marketplace?) since you likely lost your employer plan
-Will become employed in October - and presumably drop your current Kaiser plan and get a new one from the employer.

You sure they even have an HSA to offer? While a high-deductible plan is required in order to be eligible for an HSA, an employer (or health care provider) is under no obligation to actually provide an HSA (to my knowledge at least). Hence why you can freely open an HSA with any provider at anytime as long as you have a qualified high deductible plan.

But yes, if you have a qualified high-deductible plan - you should have no problem opening one and contributing to it on a basis of how long you have had the high-deductible plan. That is, if you sign-up for a high-deductible plan mid-year instead of at the beginning of the year, then I believe you are supposed to limit your contributions based on how many months you have had the qualifying plan. (e.g. If you obtain a high-deductible plan in April and keep it through the year, you had a HD plan for 9 out of 12 months. Make sure that you don't contribute more than (9/12) = 75% * Maximum HSA contribution.

While you are able to withdraw your money for healthcare expenses at ANYTIME after the account is created - you are only eligible to make contributions when you have a qualified high-deductible plan. Hope that makes sense.

But when you say "I will have actual healthcare starting in October" - what do you mean by that? As in, you will get new health insurance through your new employer? In all likelihood, your employer should have a high-deductible plan as well if you want to continue with HSA contributions. Personally, I find with how much cheaper high-deductible plans are, I'm better off with high-deductible plans.

ah OK. SO I can't contribute to it if I have (yes, what I call) actual health care: meaning, zero deductible, low premium, balls to the wall awesome. ...I mean, that's my only experience with healthcare.

So, while I can open it and keep it for life now, I actually won't be able to contribute to it during the months/years when I have a real healthcare plan. I mean, that makes sense and certainly seems honest. It's why I kept asking the CSRs because it wouldn't make sense to be able to, but you know...

Yes, Kaiser has one. I had Kaiser with my previous employer, and saw that they offered a shitty plan with HSA, so I thought I would go with that for these couple of months because if anything, it's cheaper than COBRA and does give HSA access, and I can keep my current medical records/history in one place with less hassle (I have now found a separate site that sets up the HSA account separately--surprise surprise, you will never find it through Kaiser, by talking to anyone at Kaiser...you just have to use Google to find it from Kaiser. fucking hell).

Granted, my options could be different in October b/c it is the first time I will be out of Academia (Federal contractor, technically, and after 4 or 5 months, I still haven't received any information regarding the benefits), and maybe not as great as Academia options (typically ~$60 premium for full health/eyes, $0 deductible, $10 copay, etc. Dental the typical at $10/month).

....hmm, so maybe I should cancel this and get on Medicaid for the next 2 months? Apparently, a colleague, also leaving at the same time, says she is paying $0 during the gap. That sounds better than the absurd $260 that I am paying....and now for an HSA that really seems to just be a dream? le sigh...
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ah OK. SO I can't contribute to it if I have (yes, what I call) actual health care: meaning, zero deductible, low premium, balls to the wall awesome. ...I mean, that's my only experience with healthcare.


ZERO deductible? The fuck employers you work for that gives that?!

I've seen low deductible PPO plans, where the deductible is $300 to 500... Never $0 though. And ultimately, I stopped looking at those types of plans because I realized I was just paying for it with substantially higher bi-weekly payments from my paycheck.

Regardless, after I took a look at how much I use with healthcare, I came to the realization that the low cost of a high-deductible plan + the advantages of an HSA investment far outweighed having to pay more for deductibles.

Most employers now-a-days (I've had a total of 4 professional big-name employers in my working career thus far) offer a range of high-deductible to PPO plans with low deductibles.


Yes, Kaiser has one. I had Kaiser with my previous employer, and saw that they offered a shitty plan with HSA, so I thought I would go with that for these couple of months because if anything, it's cheaper than COBRA and does give HSA access, and I can keep my current medical records/history in one place with less hassle (I have now found a separate site that sets up the HSA account separately--surprise surprise, you will never find it through Kaiser, by talking to anyone at Kaiser...you just have to use Google to find it from Kaiser. fucking hell).

Granted, my options could be different in October b/c it is the first time I will be out of Academia (Federal contractor, technically, and after 4 or 5 months, I still haven't received any information regarding the benefits), and maybe not as great as Academia options (typically ~$60 premium for full health/eyes, $0 deductible, $10 copay, etc. Dental the typical at $10/month).

....hmm, so maybe I should cancel this and get on Medicaid for the next 2 months? Apparently, a colleague, also leaving at the same time, says she is paying $0 during the gap. That sounds better than the absurd $260 that I am paying....and now for an HSA that really seems to just be a dream? le sigh...

It's definitely cheaper than COBRA

Medicaid: Have fun applying, going to the office, interviews or whatever they do... by the time they approve you and everything it will likely already be October. I had to do that shit for my pre-mature born daughter - she was in the NICU at the hospital for 3-months and they made me aware that I could sign her up for Social-security disability + qualify for medicaid. Pain in the butt, but it was free money.

Which on that note: I highlighted this above, if you DO decide to go with a high-deductible and an HSA - contributions from your direct deposit are FICA tax exempt in addition to income. That's already a savings of 7.65% (6.2% for Social Security and 1.45% for Medicare).




So, while I can open it and keep it for life now, I actually won't be able to contribute to it during the months/years when I have a real healthcare plan. I mean, that makes sense and certainly seems honest. It's why I kept asking the CSRs because it wouldn't make sense to be able to, but you know...

Yeap. Correct. Contributions only when you have a high-deductible plan. I mean, I guess you still could (since the HSA provider doesn't have a clue of what your healthcare plan is) but you can be audited anytime.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,552
725
136
FWIW, your so-called targeted date funds have somewhat higher expenses (~0.12% to 0.15%) than some other Vanguard offerings. I am under the impression that all they really do is shift more from equities to bonds as the target date approaches, and at least right now bonds seem like a bad investment to me anyway.

If your 401k options include all Vanguard funds, you might want to look at some of the "Admiral" funds which have expenses in the 0.05% to 0.08% range.

Every little bit helps.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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FWIW, your so-called targeted date funds have somewhat higher expenses (~0.12% to 0.15%) than some other Vanguard offerings. I am under the impression that all they really do is shift more from equities to bonds as the target date approaches, and at least right now bonds seem like a bad investment to me anyway.

If your 401k options include all Vanguard funds, you might want to look at some of the "Admiral" funds which have expenses in the 0.05% to 0.08% range.

Every little bit helps.
Correct.

However most sensible folks recommend a 3 pronged approach:


1 part for domestic stock diversification
1 part for international stock diversification
1 part for bonds diversification.

Ultimately, yes, it's a slightly higher expense ratio. alternatively, you can manage those 3 or so index funds yourself with rebalancing and adjustments.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,552
725
136
Correct.

However most sensible folks recommend a 3 pronged approach:


1 part for domestic stock diversification
1 part for international stock diversification
1 part for bonds diversification.

Ultimately, yes, it's a slightly higher expense ratio. alternatively, you can manage those 3 or so index funds yourself with rebalancing and adjustments.

Yes, the traditional wisdom is that retirement savings should gradually shift to ever larger portions of bonds as one approaches retirement age. I believe the old addage is the your percentage in equities should be 100 minus your age. Given the increases in longevity and the putrid current interest rates, 65% in bonds at 65 seems way too high to me. Obviously another reason I dislike target date funds. YMMV.

Vanguard does have "Admiral" funds that fit each of your prongs:

Domestic stocks: VFIAX, VDADX, VCLAX and others (0.04-0.08%)
International stocks: VTMGX, VFWAX, VIAXX and others (0.07-0.20%)
Bonds: VBILX, VBLAX, VBIRX, and others (0.07%)

Taking a little time on a regular basis to review your 401k performance and do any rebalancing and/or investment changes is IMHO a good idea.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,372
3,451
126
One potential consideration in the Roth discussion is when are you thinking about retiring? If it's before 59.5 then a Roth provides a more convenient vehicle to bridge the gap between your retirement age and 59.5 (which is when you can start accessing 401k, 401a, 403b, tIRA funds without penalty) because you can withdraw your contributions (not gains) to the Roth before that age as long as they have been in the Roth for at least 5 years. Not to say you can't access other funds but it gets a bit more complicated. If that is a potential concern the applicable rule for penalty free withdrawals from tIRA and 4XXy plans is 72(t)

As for what you invest in ideally you should maintain your portfolio objective\design across all your retirement accounts although that doesn't necessarily mean you invest in the same thing across all accounts as you may need to adjust for retirement age, tax efficiency and investment options. That said since you are doing a target date already in another account that would be a very solid choice again. Yes you can replicate a "Do it Yourself" target date fund with Vanguards own shares (they essentially tell you how under the Portfolio tab under "Allocations to underlying funds) when you adjust for fund weighting its not that far off. For example the Target 5050 fund has an ER of 0.15%. The fund contains 55% of a stock fund with an ER of 0.05% and 30% is a fund with an ER of 0.17%. I'm not the greatest with weightings but my quick napkin math means the ER of a DIY is in the 0.08% range. Using FINRA's Fund Analyzer the difference in cost of $100,000 over 20 years is $5,000 vs $2700. So you're paying Vanguard $115/year to manage your fund for you, rebalance and follow general guidelines for when to make your account less risky given your retirement date. That's not the worst cost in the world. I looked at Edward Jones' options (Holy shitballs what a gross mix of Front End Loads, 12b-1 and redemption fees in addition to the high expense ratios....). I picked one of their more "reasonable" funds with an ER of 1.16%. (some are over 3%!) Over the same period mentioned above you'd pay Edward Jones $22,747 on a 1.16% ER fund compared to paying Vanguard $4995. So are they providing that much more value in their returns? Given that 70-90% of actively managed funds fail meet the returns provided by an index fund every year it is very unlikely.

If you ever want to compare fund costs to better understand the impact of the Expense Ratio on your investments the tool is currently available here: https://tools.finra.org/fund_analyzer/
(Although they keep changing the damn URL breaking my bookmarks)

Ok I couldn't help myself. I picked one of their 3+% funds (CPCRX). Costs $75,745 over 20 years on a $100,000 investment...That better be one hell of a golden egg investment fund to make up for that cost

You definitely need another good credit card (that Amazon one--VISA right? is good). I'm not sure if it gives Ultimate Rewards points or not, but if it does, it's better than I thought.

I'd suggest the Chase Sapphire Preferred. One usually, historically, would recommend the Reserved (hell, there's a very long thread here, pretty much specifically about that one, lol), but the fee has become absurd and the offer bonuses aren't as great as it used to be (hence: history). Used to be 100k points. 50k is a downer....BUT, the annual fee for the Preferred is very tolerable considering that the Ultimate Points accrual is very similar. Now, if you do travel constantly, and actually use Lyft and Doordash all the time, then the Reserve might still be worth it to you (they added the Doordash/Lyft stuff when they bumped up the annual fee to $550). ...you still get $300 annual credits for "travel expenses" (this includes things like parking costs, on top of you know, rentals, airline tickets, etc), so the fee is actually $250 if you are good with that every year. ...still, I'd probably go with the Preferred because the current sign-on point bonus is greater? That's weird....

Yep that is a great card. It's the only one I've kept since I started churning back in 2012. I've had great experiences with their travel insurance protections and they are one of the few cards that provide that coverage for a points and miles trip. All you have to do is pay for the taxes and fees with the card and you get the same insurance coverage as if you paid the full fare.

That said, travel rewards is a bit of a tough slog atm and a lot of point\mile offers are down this year so I wouldn't necessarily discount the ones with $500 statement credits like the Bank of America Premium Rewards. Either route you go - keep track of what you applied for, when and when you close it. And if you do any Business Credit Cards make sure those are called out. Credit card companies keep coming out with rules for when you're eligible for signup bonuses and it can be somewhat of a complicated mix of changing rules. But if you have a record you can always go back and check yourself to see what you are eligible for (and can argue with the CC company when they say an Authorized User counts and get that decision reversed)


ZERO deductible? The fuck employers you work for that gives that?!

TBH in the past 9 years and 3 employers I've only had 1 year where I was eligible for an HSA and 7 of those years were on a zero deductible plan. Sure my one now is currently a HMO but for my two image assisted back injections with sedation I paid a total of $75 out of pocket ($25 office visit for referral and $30 for specialist eval, Xrays, MRI + injection and then another $30 for the next injection)
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
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I should offer the "Ponyo Option", where you invest a huge amount in TSLA and retire early at 45. :)

Honestly, putting 5% of your retirement fund in high growth stocks like that might not be a bad idea that next time the market corrects itself. My return on that investment was amazing.

I could use some advice on mutual funds to invest in, though. Except for FSCSX (which is awesome) and JATTX, most of my mutual funds are underperforming the S&P 500.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,372
3,451
126
I should offer the "Ponyo Option", where you invest a huge amount in TSLA and retire early at 45. :)

Honestly, putting 5% of your retirement fund in high growth stocks like that might not be a bad idea that next time the market corrects itself. My return on that investment was amazing.

I could use some advice on mutual funds to invest in, though. Except for FSCSX (which is awesome) and JATTX, most of my mutual funds are underperforming the S&P 500.

IMO if you want to do something like that with 5% then I'd do individual stocks. Mutual funds will lump in the good with the bad in a sector and that can dilute the returns on what is already a small portion of your investments. Just wait for the next correction or individual company irrational reaction and then give it time to recover. I'll admit some bias though as that is what I do.

I'll also admit that I am growing increasingly concerned by the market and how well it's doing given all this shit going on in 2020. I mean people are playing hot potato with Hertz stock which should basically be worthless but keeps spiking. Not that I have any good alternatives with interest rates where they are. The best I've come up with is maybe increasing my cash percentage a little to have some more on hand in case things come tumbling down. Haven't made any changes yet though
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,075
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Yes, Max out the HSA - your limit is ~$7,100 for you as a family. Don't go over that amount either, by contributing to one for you and one for your wife so I would just have it all deducted from your wife's paychecks. Unlike 401ks/IRAs where the limit is PER PERSON, HSA is a limit for the family.
I thought that contribution limit applies to one account only if the person holding the account has a family HDHP coverage; and furthermore, if you both have individual HDHPs, you can only contribute the individual maximum to your own HSA.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Which HSA providers do you guys use?
If you don't have one through an employer, I like Old National Bank.

Some of the things I like:
  • No fee if you have the checking-only account
  • Investment options available after $1000 is deposited - and you don't have to keep the $1000 in checking
  • Investment account only costs $36/year, which was pretty cheap compared to some other individual HSA providers
  • Decent selection of funds, including a few good Vanguard ones
 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,237
5,634
136
I'll also admit that I am growing increasingly concerned by the market and how well it's doing given all this shit going on in 2020. I mean people are playing hot potato with Hertz stock which should basically be worthless but keeps spiking. Not that I have any good alternatives with interest rates where they are. The best I've come up with is maybe increasing my cash percentage a little to have some more on hand in case things come tumbling down. Haven't made any changes yet though

same, it seems pretty crazy

but with %25 bonds, i've got a little bit of cash for a drop

and with %30 international, i at least have some holdings that haven't skyrocketed over the past few years

and with some small value tilts, i have some US stocks that have a PE of 15 instead of 25

of course i would be a lot richer right now if i had just put everything into SP500... or just TSLA
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,237
5,634
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Read this - and never ever touch anything with the names "Edward Jones" on it:

i tried to dissuade my grandparents from doing this, but it was no use because "all the rich people in town use them"

they only had 200 though at the start of their retirement so i figured they'd use it up one way or another

and if the ed jones guy makes them happy then whatever. he can handle their concerns when the news freaks them out.

they probably should've just used vanguard PAS though for a fraction of the AUM rate
 
Nov 8, 2012
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I thought that contribution limit applies to one account only if the person holding the account has a family HDHP coverage; and furthermore, if you both have individual HDHPs, you can only contribute the individual maximum to your own HSA.

Hmmm... I had a year where I contributed ~$300 to an HSA in the start of the year with my employer - then I quit that job shortly into the year and switched over to benefits from my wife. I then made contributions of ~$6700 under my wife - making sure to stay below the overall family limit.


But I think I see what you mean now - and it looks like you're right... If you and your spouse are under different high deductible plans, THEN it limits you. Personally, I've only ever had family coverage (or wife+spouse when we didn't have kids). I know that a lot of employers are being pieces of shit these days where they have rules for you to pay extra for your healthcare plan if your spouse also has an employer with coverage.

.


For spouses covered by separate self-only HDHP plans, each can contribute up to the maximum, self-only limit to their respective HSAs, but they can’t make up for any contribution shortfalls of the other spouse.

Sometimes, one spouse might have self-only HDHP coverage and the other an “employee-and-children” family HDHP (which does not offer coverage for the employee’s spouse). This can be cost-effective for couples with children, as family HDHPs sometime provide for “employee and children” coverage that is less expensive than family plans that include both spouses. In this situation, the spouse with self-only coverage is limited to the self-only HSA contribution amount, and the spouse with family coverage can contribute up to the family limit. But while the total between spouses cannot exceed the family limit, the spouse with the family plan can make up for any contribution shortfall of the spouse with self-only coverage.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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i tried to dissuade my grandparents from doing this, but it was no use because "all the rich people in town use them"

they only had 200 though at the start of their retirement so i figured they'd use it up one way or another

and if the ed jones guy makes them happy then whatever. he can handle their concerns when the news freaks them out.

they probably should've just used vanguard PAS though for a fraction of the AUM rate

They should literally use ANYTHING but Edward Jones. I'm talking Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, Voya... ANYTHING. It's literally door-to-door salesmen for investments. GREAT IDEA! Let's trust millions of retirement to some cheese-ball who knocks on doors to find customers.

The blog I linked at the top also goes into detail where these "investors" really have no qualifications at all. Could just be random bums off the street. They have no certifications or qualifications, and they most assuredly aren't a fiduciary.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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same, it seems pretty crazy

but with %25 bonds, i've got a little bit of cash for a drop

and with %30 international, i at least have some holdings that haven't skyrocketed over the past few years

and with some small value tilts, i have some US stocks that have a PE of 15 instead of 25

The more we go on - as much as I stand by diversifying with international... Overall it seems a bit pointless...

Just look at the last recession - a problem that occurred in the US literally punched every economy globally in the dick.

Regardless - it definitely doesn't hurt to put your money in different buckets.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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IMO if you want to do something like that with 5% then I'd do individual stocks. Mutual funds will lump in the good with the bad in a sector and that can dilute the returns on what is already a small portion of your investments. Just wait for the next correction or individual company irrational reaction and then give it time to recover. I'll admit some bias though as that is what I do.

I'll also admit that I am growing increasingly concerned by the market and how well it's doing given all this shit going on in 2020. I mean people are playing hot potato with Hertz stock which should basically be worthless but keeps spiking. Not that I have any good alternatives with interest rates where they are. The best I've come up with is maybe increasing my cash percentage a little to have some more on hand in case things come tumbling down. Haven't made any changes yet though

When it comes to individual stocks, I personally like to look for things where people are irrationally scared.

Royal Caribbean and Carnival come to mind - I don't care what happens, after this pandemic is all said and done, the same old people and party douches will be back on cruises just like before it.

I made tons of bank on Chipotle after the whole "OMG e-coli in the lettuce/produce!"



In all honestly, as much as a certain someone won't like me saying this - I think TSLA is in for a world of hurt at some point. I think they are still very much niche fad. Eventually, the people who wanted a Tesla will have a Tesla (*cough* California cities *cough*) - and I just don't think the overall country wants one.

As seen with every other car brand - what is selling isn't cars. It's SUVs for every family. It's pick-up trucks as well. Standard cars - electric or otherwise, just are falling by the wayside... And the majority of the country still isn't prepped for electric car charging. Admittedly, I wish I was a part of the TSLA fun though.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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I looked at Edward Jones' options (Holy shitballs what a gross mix of Front End Loads, 12b-1 and redemption fees in addition to the high expense ratios....). I picked one of their more "reasonable" funds with an ER of 1.16%. (some are over 3%!) Over the same period mentioned above you'd pay Edward Jones $22,747 on a 1.16% ER fund compared to paying Vanguard $4995. So are they providing that much more value in their returns? Given that 70-90% of actively managed funds fail meet the returns provided by an index fund every year it is very unlikely.

Like I said, read that blog on my first reply (Post #2). It is both entertaining and cringe-worthy that people fall for that shit.... And like in the OPs case - someone else RECOMMENDED IT to them.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,237
5,634
136
I think they are still very much niche fad. Eventually, the people who wanted a Tesla will have a Tesla (*cough* California cities *cough*) - and I just don't think the overall country wants one.

maybe not in texas, but lots of people in the midwest talking about them, at least in cities/suburbs. though texas might be more keen on tesla if elon builds a factory out there!

so far a few people i know have gotten one, and if they dropped 10$k i know a few more who would too

combo gas/battery vehicles are also popular, i know a few people with priuses or other hybrids and they have worked well - and i'd definitely prefer toyota over tesla for quality

my big thing is getting fully automated driving that's approved in lieu of a license. whoever has that first, i'll show up with cash in hand to buy one. it probably won't be legal until like 2040 though.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
29,221
146
When it comes to individual stocks, I personally like to look for things where people are irrationally scared.

Royal Caribbean and Carnival come to mind - I don't care what happens, after this pandemic is all said and done, the same old people and party douches will be back on cruises just like before it.

I made tons of bank on Chipotle after the whole "OMG e-coli in the lettuce/produce!"



In all honestly, as much as a certain someone won't like me saying this - I think TSLA is in for a world of hurt at some point. I think they are still very much niche fad. Eventually, the people who wanted a Tesla will have a Tesla (*cough* California cities *cough*) - and I just don't think the overall country wants one.

As seen with every other car brand - what is selling isn't cars. It's SUVs for every family. It's pick-up trucks as well. Standard cars - electric or otherwise, just are falling by the wayside... And the majority of the country still isn't prepped for electric car charging. Admittedly, I wish I was a part of the TSLA fun though.

OT, but Tesla is far, far more than a car company. They have been for a long time. The longer you continue to believe that, the more you will miss out.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,507
8,102
136
When I was 15 or so my parents got me a consultation with a supposedly very expensive investment counselor. He recommended I put money in a particular conservative mutual fund.
It tanked in a few years later and I lost about 99 percent of my money.
Something to consider: If those guys ACTUALLY knew how to make money, they wouldn't tell you. The reason they charge ridiculous fees to tell you how to invest is they dont actually know how to make money investing.
Or if they did, they would lie to you, take your money, and invest in things that actually pay out for themselves. Either way, they don't serve a function to middle class families who don't already know how the game works.
It's said that most investment counselors can't beat the broader market, and for me, the broader market means the Standard and Poors 500, which I believe is essentially (or actually) the 500 largest publicly traded companies in the USA. You can invest directly in all those stocks by buying shares of the SPY exchange traded fund, or the SPY ETF, as it's called, SPY for short. There's essentially no fee on this ETF. Warren Buffet has said that most investors would do well to ignore all the complexities and simply buy the SPY and hold on! On average it goes up around 10% a year. He recommends just holding on and continuing to buy shares on a regular basis if you're in a position to do so (i.e. working).

Now, the S&P500 (and of course its surrogate SPY ETF) can and will have wild swings. One year it might go up 30% or even 50%. Other years it may actually go down, or even "tank." On average, it's gone up around 10%/year. Sure beats Ally, Marcus, Synchrony online savings, which right now are under 1% return, although FDIC insured.
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
IMO if you want to do something like that with 5% then I'd do individual stocks. Mutual funds will lump in the good with the bad in a sector and that can dilute the returns on what is already a small portion of your investments. Just wait for the next correction or individual company irrational reaction and then give it time to recover. I'll admit some bias though as that is what I do.

I'll also admit that I am growing increasingly concerned by the market and how well it's doing given all this shit going on in 2020. I mean people are playing hot potato with Hertz stock which should basically be worthless but keeps spiking. Not that I have any good alternatives with interest rates where they are. The best I've come up with is maybe increasing my cash percentage a little to have some more on hand in case things come tumbling down. Haven't made any changes yet though

Yeah, I think that I'll buy some GOOG, APPL, MSFT, and AMZN the next time the market dips. Those four companies are so big and diversified that combined they almost act like a high return technology fund on their own.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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Yeah, I think that I'll buy some GOOG, APPL, MSFT, and AMZN the next time the market dips. Those four companies are so big and diversified that combined they almost act like a high return technology fund on their own.

Well - here is the thing... if you're buying something like S&P Index fund... you're already buying a shit ton of GOOG, APPL, MSFT, and AMZN and other FAANG stocks..... They make up approx 15-20% of the S&P as far as market share. So when you buy an Index-share of S&P, effectively a large percentage of that is going to those already.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Well - here is the thing... if you're buying something like S&P Index fund... you're already buying a shit ton of GOOG, APPL, MSFT, and AMZN and other FAANG stocks..... They make up approx 15-20% of the S&P as far as market share. So when you buy an Index-share of S&P, effectively a large percentage of that is going to those already.

It is higher than 20% now because all of the gains from those FAANG stocks lately and it could go up even higher if those stocks keep the same pace.

Just five stocks - Microsoft Corp, Apple Inc , Amazon.com Inc, Google parent Alphabet Inc and Facebook Inc - account for more than 22% of the market cap of the entire S&P 500 index.

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
29,221
146
Well - here is the thing... if you're buying something like S&P Index fund... you're already buying a shit ton of GOOG, APPL, MSFT, and AMZN and other FAANG stocks..... They make up approx 15-20% of the S&P as far as market share. So when you buy an Index-share of S&P, effectively a large percentage of that is going to those already.

Yep, but that isn't exactly true right now. As SVNLA suggested above, buying into the S&P Index right now is actually bad, if you think you are getting an equal share of the big techs. Those 5, especially, and we should include NVDIA right now, maybe, aren't properly represented in those index funds wrg to their gains this year.

A lot of those funds have been relatively flat, weighed down by "the rest of the garbage," while those companies are up 40-300+% over the same time. It feels like a bubble of a situation, or at least something very temporary even if it doesn't burst.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,507
8,102
136
Yep, but that isn't exactly true right now. As SVNLA suggested above, buying into the S&P Index right now is actually bad, if you think you are getting an equal share of the big techs. Those 5, especially, and we should include NVDIA right now, maybe, aren't properly represented in those index funds wrg to their gains this year.

A lot of those funds have been relatively flat, weighed down by "the rest of the garbage," while those companies are up 40-300+% over the same time. It feels like a bubble of a situation, or at least something very temporary even if it doesn't burst.
But if those big tech high fliers burst, the S&P will do better than the Nasdaq and those 5 or so high fliers in particular.