General Hardware system builds, three budgets

[MarcVenice]

The basic idea is to put together three different systems. These three builds will most likely end up in a stickied thread, so new system builders can use these systems as a guide or reference. I'm going to keep them updated myself the best I can and as time allows. A real budget one, 500-600$, a mid to high-end gaming machine for 1000-1200$, and a real high-end machine for 2000$. I would like some input on the exact figures. Do we add in monitors ? OS's ? How much for the keyboard, mice ? I think that for the budget machine we should go with integrated graphics but I want more input on this. If people want to game on a budget we can always put in a sidenote that adding a videocard and a slightly better CPU will do quite well in a lot of games. More input needed on this !!!

The next step will be to piece together these systems. I will also be taking suggestions on that. Some input here is needed as well though. Most of the AT visitors are from the US, so we will be using parts available in the US, and we will be using US pricing. Do we take into account rebates ? Besides this, the middle to high-end gaming machine could also be a Photoshop/video editing machine, all you really need then is a quadcore and perhaps some extra ram. How do we take this into account?

So if you could be so kind, just post answering the next questions, copy/paste will do:

Budgets:

Budget A: $$$, Budget B: $$$, Budget C: $$$

Monitor: Yes/No

OS: Yes/No

Rebates: Yes/No

How much for a Keyboard/Mice ?

Then you can throw in your own 2 cents. I've been doing some thinking but I think we should just get started and we'll see were we end up. These new systems are ALL about the best bang for buck. We're not here to support Intel/AMD/ATi/Nvidia or whatever brand gets you going. We want to build systems that give the most power to the end-user for the least money, within budget of course. Some rebates btw are really persistent, but I think that if we pick a part with a rebate on it, we should also mention a part without a rebate, that still fits the budget.

Post away !

And P.S. I'll be keeping my eyes on this thread. I'd rather have you post in here then PM-ing me directly.

 

[crimson117]

My $870 rig recommendation ($1000, $870 AR thru 3/31)

Budget A: $500, Budget B: $800-$1000, Budget C: $1000-$1500, Budget D: $1500-$2000
Monitor: Yes - but separate them from the build! Monitors can be carried over quite easily from build to build.
OS: Yes, and include FREE OS option like Linux where appropriate.
Rebates: Yes - definitely. It's financially foolish to ignore rebates, even if they're time-sensitive.
How much for a Keyboard/Mice? Vary the budget. Again, separate it from the rest of the build. Offer basic, gaming, wireless, Media Center options.


Also, call out upgrades like "For video editing, double the RAM and spring for a Q6600" or "To make this budget rig a gamer, just another $100 would upgrade from the HD2400 to a 9600 GT". Or: "Got a little more room in your SOHO budget? Add another $200 for a dual-monitor setup for a proven increase in productivity."

 

[MarcVenice]

Was kinda hoping for some more input

 

[SpeedEng66]

my .02

I would say budget a = as cheap as poss. (cheap pc for internet/office maybe sim's 2 low end games) pretty much what 90% of normal ppl would use a pc for (like me )

budget b 500-1000 mainstream pc/htpc's/gaming

budget c (I wouldent even call it a budget anymore heh) 1000+ dream rig

a rig should not include a monitor (cost) it adds too many variables

os yes but depending on budget build (I cant picture a user with budget A sys buyin vista ult and a budget C user using vista basic)

rebate's I say leave them out (k.i.s.s.)

keyboard and mice nah have some links on some option's for them to choose
a budget b building a htpc doesnt want just a regular wired mice and keyboard
it all come sown to personal taste on kb and mice

.....

I always checked out avsforums on thier stickey link for building a htpc
the amount of time and constant updates due to new technology (wow!!)
it seems like this will be the same (always updatin = alot of time)

 

[Dashel]

Budgets:

Budget A: $600, Budget B: $1000, Budget C: $2000

Monitor: Yes

OS: Yes

Rebates: No

How much for a Keyboard/Mice ? Eh maybe 60 bucks? 100 tops.

Honestly I'd just like to see a reasonable rig at those budgets and then a rig where you say this is the best value rig. By that I mean: what would I put together where I wouldnt be spending 5 grand, but I wouldnt have to say "Well I would like to put in GPU X because it's the best price/performance card, but I cant have that and Monitor Y (also the best price/performance) and still stay in budget, so we'll use Monitor Z instead because it's 80 bucks cheaper.."

 

[seemingly random]

Great idea.

Will give my opinion in the next couple of days.

Systems:
1 htpc
2 matx economy/surfing pc
3 atx mid-range pc
4 atx sli, big hunking psu pc

Instead of giving what I think is best, I'll probably research the threads from the past few months to see what's popular. It seems like one or two percolate to the top.

I suggest not even mentioning exact prices or rebates since they so transient. Prices are something that anybody (read: no technical expertise) can research. We're tech people, not shoppers.

Again, great idea. Seems like this could eliminate 50-80% of the repetition.

---

And after reading your instructions completely... I suggest not assigning a $ value to each category until the contents of each category is known. Cost will of course evolve over time - ie. cpu's and ram probably won't always be this cheap. People don't build there own pc's for cost savings - they do it so they can have a pc that has components exactly as they want - no more, no less (read: no hard or soft crapware). Some do it for the challenge, edification and satisfaction which comes with building something successfully yourself.

monitor: yes, proportional cost for each category. People will be smart enough to choose from the several mentioned - and of course there should be a link to the video forum.

os: yes, but only to give a vague idea of cost. Only once, not for each category. Maybe a reminder for other possibilities (linux, etc.).

kb/mouse: same as os

 

[MarcVenice]

Thanks seemingly random, that's exactly the kind input I've been looking for. More opinions/suggestions are welcome.

 

[chinaman1472]

Budgets:

Budget A: Economy - $500-600
- Possibly recommending a cheap pre-built as it can come with OS, monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers
- Mostly for basic use: surfing the web, word processing, light office work, light gaming

Budget B: Mid-Range - $700-1000
- I put a bigger range here because this is typically the range most people ask for.
- Add several options for most of the components, giving a bigger spread.
- Possible to make this into two categories, a Low Mid-Range and High Mid-Range.[/b]

Budget C: High End - $1500+
- High end gaming vs Workstation

Monitor: No
- Put in a separate section. Lots of people reuse their old monitors, or get monitors when they're on sale, so I think the build should be more focused around the box itself, rather than the full package.

OS: Yes
- And always keep Linux as the free option.

Rebates: Considerable
- Some people like to deal with them, some don't. Making 2 guides, 1 w/ and 1 w/o, is way too much work, especially with how fast rebates can come in and go. I say use the real price, and tag a note saying the price has been as low as $XXX.XX after rebates, and have two final prices, one without rebates and one with the lowest/average rebates.

How much for a Keyboard/Mice - Considerable
- Some people only need a $5 mouse and keyboard. Others want the $50 mouse and keyboard. Some reuse them. I look at these components (along with speakers), the way as the Monitor.

seemingly random has a great point about not attaching price values, but a lot of people end up having $XXX.XX to spend on upgrades and they want the best they can get. If people want certain components in their system, this is the wrong guide for them. If someone is updating this every few weeks/months, I don't see much of a problem having to deal with constant price changes. After all, this is a guide, not the builder's bible. And it's focused around the best bang for the buck.

Add in DVD-RW and PSUs in the mix, and put a section for speakers maybe.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: chinaman1472
Budgets:

Budget A: Economy - $500-600
- Possibly recommending a cheap pre-built as it can come with OS, monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers
- Mostly for basic use: surfing the web, word processing, light office work, light gaming

Budget B: Mid-Range - $700-1000
- I put a bigger range here because this is typically the range most people ask for.
- Add several options for most of the components, giving a bigger spread.
- Possible to make this into two categories, a Low Mid-Range and High Mid-Range.

Budget C: High End - $1500+
- High end gaming vs Workstation

Monitor: No
- Put in a separate section. Lots of people reuse their old monitors, or get monitors when they're on sale, so I think the build should be more focused around the box itself, rather than the full package.

OS: Yes
- And always keep Linux as the free option.

Rebates: Considerable
- Some people like to deal with them, some don't. Making 2 guides, 1 w/ and 1 w/o, is way too much work, especially with how fast rebates can come in and go. I say use the real price, and tag a note saying the price has been as low as $XXX.XX after rebates, and have two final prices, one without rebates and one with the lowest/average rebates.

How much for a Keyboard/Mice - Considerable
- Some people only need a $5 mouse and keyboard. Others want the $50 mouse and keyboard. Some reuse them. I look at these components (along with speakers), the way as the Monitor.

:thumbsup:

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: chinaman1472
seemingly random has a great point about not attaching price values, but a lot of people end up having $XXX.XX to spend on upgrades and they want the best they can get.

There are two processes here:

1. a guide to help people put together a pc
2. putting together this guide.

I was referring to 2. when I suggested delaying assigned a $ value to the categories. ie. decide on the appropriateness of the category, put together a few systems "between ourselves" and see what it adds up to. Then include a representative system + average price in 1.

As an example of trying to not laser focus on price, for a mb for category x that would include mb's from 118.57-143.91, give an average of 130. Mention shipping+tax only as a reminder. I don't believe the intentions here are to open up a store... Several stores can be linked.

If people want certain components in their system, this is the wrong guide for them.

Exactly. This is the point were links to other forums should be provided for individual refinement.

If someone is updating this every few weeks/months, I don't see much of a problem having to deal with constant price changes.

Well, this is very important. How will this guide be updated. It would be nice if the responsibility to update could be shared among 20-30 people but my experience is that this leads to a mess. Probably just one or two people will be updating. Since prices change quite often, this could become a burden. So it needs to be as simple as possible. Components will need to be updated also - so the scope should be kept small initially until maintenance of this guide becomes apparent. One of the saddest things I've seen in the tech world is a great guide that has languished and become out of date.

And it's focused around the best bang for the buck.

Is this really true or should it be "here are some basic configurations that can be refined to the n-th degree"? For some, this guide might be all that is needed to get them started - they'll finish it on their own. Others will need more attention and can be helped individually.

 

[chinaman1472]

Ah, just a misinterpretation on my part, my bad, I skimmed too much on your post.

As said, this is a guide. People should be researching several places and not just one and we might have to put that as a reminder. When people go car shopping, they shop at multiple places and do research at multiple locations; building a computer should be similar.

I thought Marc's initial post said we want systems that give the most value for their money. And as a guide, it should only provide you with information. People will need to do some fine tuning or ask for them.

 

[JackMDS]

There can be many variations on this issue and if all then variations goes in then there is No point for such a thread because all variation in is what we are doing right now in an open discussion.

So I think that we need a "linchpin" thread along the line described in chinaman1472 post and any variation would be open to discussion (that why most of us are here to begin with, ?Disquisition?), otherwise we can be replaced by Robots.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
... ?Disquisition? ...

I didn't even know this was a word - interesting.

Websters defines it as:

a formal or systematic inquiry into or discussion of a subject : an elaborate analytical or explanatory essay or discussion

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: chinaman1472
Ah, just a misinterpretation on my part, my bad, I skimmed too much on your post.

I assumed that I wasn't explicit enough - sometimes the mind goes much faster then the fingers on the keyboard.

As said, this is a guide. People should be researching several places and not just one and we might have to put that as a reminder. When people go car shopping, they shop at multiple places and do research at multiple locations; building a computer should be similar.

Couldn't agree more.

I thought Marc's initial post said we want systems that give the most value for their money. And as a guide, it should only provide you with information. People will need to do some fine tuning or ask for them.

I did too but couldn't find the word 'value' in his post - amazing what tricks the mind can play...

For me the value of a guide such as this is to eliminate the tedium of answering the same initial questions. I haven't visited here for a while since it often seemed repetitive. Of course, it isn't to the person seeking help. As JackMDS states the goal isn't to eliminate interaction, but to get things started.

Just my 2c.

 

[jterrell]

Budgets:

Budget A: 500
This is the grandparents or small kids pc or the basic use box with internet surfing, picture viewing/storing, email reading and cd/mp3 playing as its goals. Could also be used by a seriously budgeted gamer who plays mmorpgs.

Budget B: 800
This is the htpc or gamers box area. Good value pieces that overclock well. All stuff that is well tested and known to work. Great bang for buck.


Budget C: 1500
Power gamer or video encoding box. I would spend over 1500 on a pc because IMHO this should really never be done except for a box that earns you money but alas some folks can see the value in a 3k gaming rig. I think given the additional budget over the 800 you can make some sexier suggestions though at 1500 while not just tossing all latest gen high-end hardware in a list.

Monitor: Yes/No
NO. Monitors and other peripherals are really a separate issue because a 650$ computer user may well decide the monitor is worth 250 on its own while many others would go cheap 19" lcd.
OS: Yes/No
Yes. Each pc needs an OS and most users will be unable to re-use what they have.

Rebates: Yes/No
No. If a budget is based on what you spend this month then rebated sums have to count against that now budget.
Nice to note that rebates can come in to lower overall cost after the fact but generally folks start out building with a budget that they can not go over waiting 10 weeks on a rebate.

How much for a Keyboard/Mice ? Again I would include this in price. If it is truly a budget conscious decision the basic cheap versions work fine, if it is a 2nd or 3rd build the user probably has these items already and a KVM switch may be more the need.

 

[chinaman1472]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Then you can throw in your own 2 cents. I've been doing some thinking but I think we should just get started and we'll see were we end up. These new systems are ALL about the best bang for buck. We're not here to support Intel/AMD/ATi/Nvidia or whatever brand gets you going. We want to build systems that give the most power to the end-user for the least money, within budget of course. Some rebates btw are really persistent, but I think that if we pick a part with a rebate on it, we should also mention a part without a rebate, that still fits the budget.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Just a suggestion, but maybe group the recommendations by purpose. I see a more and more specific build requests for, photoshop, 3d maya, basic surfer for grandma, business machine, etc.. Make the $ ranges larger and give some options to fine tune within the range

Gaming-econo <$600
Gaming-mid $600-1000
Gaming-highend $1000-2000
Basic surfer <$500 and of course add the Dell/HP disclamer here
Basic busness $500-1000
Crunching/Folding box ????-????
Photoshop box ????-???? maybe break down to two, basic and highend?
3d design box ????-???? mid and high?

 

[piasabird]

I recently saw an add for a barebones Laptop by the brand of Compal, wich is not an OEM, but an ODM. Basically they make a lot of Laptop designs for a lot of the brand name products. From what I read they make 50% of the Manufacturers Laptops.

Item was a model IFL90 series. It can be purchased in a configuration with the standard Integrated video or the Nvidia 8600GT video version. Then you can add a T7700 and some RAM and maybe a Optical Drive and/or some other add-ons.

Example:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10006842

Somewhere I saw a banner for this.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Just a suggestion, but maybe group the recommendations by purpose. I see a more and more specific build requests for, photoshop, 3d maya, basic surfer for grandma, business machine, etc.. Make the $ ranges larger and give some options to fine tune within the range

Gaming-econo <$600
Gaming-mid $600-1000
Gaming-highend $1000-2000
Basic surfer <$500 and of course add the Dell/HP disclamer here
Basic busness $500-1000
Crunching/Folding box ????-????
Photoshop box ????-???? maybe break down to two, basic and highend?
3d design box ????-???? mid and high?

Good idea. What it is called for is to give a choice in the Video aspect between Internet Surfing, and Basic Office usage Vs. Gaming, and other Video demanding tasks.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: chinaman1472
We want to build systems that give the most power to the end-user for the least money, within budget of course.

I see now. This is slightly different than what I proposed. I was concentrating much more on the content of each category than price.

---

GuitarDaddy: all of those things ultimately need to be addressed but my head is starting to explode trying to consider the scope.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: chinaman1472
We want to build systems that give the most power to the end-user for the least money, within budget of course.

I see now. This is slightly different than what I proposed. I was concentrating much more on the content of each category than price.

---

GuitarDaddy: all of those things ultimately need to be addressed but my head is starting to explode trying to consider the scope.

That's the great thing about a forum, when you consider the contributions of many the scope of whats attainable is multiplied Maybe it doesn't need to be one thread, maybe break it down to a gaming rig thread, a basic surfer/business recommendations thread, and a photo/3d design/crunching thread. Assign a different person to maintain each one.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
That's the great thing about a forum, when you consider the contributions of many the scope of whats attainable is multiplied

Agreed. If a person has the time (and a good search engine), they could probably find the answer to every question ever asked about computers on ATF (and rice cookers and restaurants and coupons for dogfood and ...).

 

[MarcVenice]

Guitardaddy, keep in mind these builds can be used as jumpstarts, so people have the basic breakdown for a new rig, and they can then ask specific questions in a new thread, to customize a build specific to their needs. We don't want a ton of stickied threads. It's going to be just one most likely, and the 2 stickied threads that are up right now will be reconsidered/merged into it somehow.

 

[DSF]

I think the hardest build is going to be the $500-600 one, especially if you're looking at gaming. It should still be in there though, because that's what some people need. Here's about what I'd do if you have to get the most out of a tiny budget but still be able to play most games reasonably well:

Case: Coolermaster Centurion 5
Unfortunately it's tough to find good cases under about $50. If you can take advantage of the periodic deals on the Antec Solo or Coolermaster RC-690, that's obviously the way to go.
($50)

PSU: Sparkle 350W
If you can get a good rebate deal something like an Antec Earthwatts 430 will occasionally be cheaper, but if not, Sparkle makes pretty good budget PSUs from what I understand.
($35)

CPU: Intel E2200
You could save even a little bit more money here if you're willing to overclock of course. I chose the E2200 only because it has a little bit more juice for those who don't want to bother.
($85)

Motherboard: Gigabyte P35-DS3L or Abit IP35-E
($90)

RAM: 2x1GB DDR2-800
Brand isn't terribly important as long as it's not crap. In this computer you're just going for whatever's on sale.
($33)

Video Card: 8800GS
($110)

Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint 250GB
($65)

DVD Drive: LiteOn SATA DVD Burner
($25)

If I added everything up right that's $493 before you throw in OS, monitor, mouse, keyboard or speakers.

 

[Fardor]

There shouldn't be large spreads if you really want this to reduce the number of "rate my rig" posts substantially.

There should be a $300 category (even if it's recommending the best prebuilt PC's of the time), a $400, a $500, a $600, $700, $800, $900, $1000, $1100, ....

If it isn't specific enough, and it isn't updated regularly (deals change all the time... like, right now, you can get the green Smilodon case w/ 500 PSU for around $50 AR on Newegg, so obviously the buyer who's primarily concerned about bang/buck would want that more than a Sonata for $100, and that deal might change in a few weeks) it won't really be all that useful. People will still be asking for confirmation if there are large spreads, and what's the point if they can find something with the same specs for much cheaper? Then they'll have to make a thread to ask if this case that seems to be just as good for cheaper truly is just as good, and what to do with the 50 bucks they saved, and stuff.

This is just what I think though.