Gender Feminism... Can you Identify a Woman/Man/Thing?

[master_shake_]

I'll bite, because that is completely stupid. The term Asian includes Middle Easterners, Indians, Filipinos, some Russians, etc... The term Oriental was extremely useful for describing those Asians who hail from the region known as the Orient. It should be considered no more offensive than the term Southerner or Eastern Euoropean.

fucking logic makes baby jesus cry!

 

[Subyman]

I hope for the rest of your life you are seated next to them on airplanes.

I'll gladly sit next to girls :biggrin:

 

[realibrad]

Next up: whining how you can't call Jackie Chan "one of them there Orientals".

You just gave a great example of the problem. Oriental simply means from the east. It was not until pretty recently that people started associating the word with a negative meaning. It used to be that you could describe people by their appearance. Now, because of how people make everything into a negative, its taboo. Retarded is another word that people have made taboo.

People like you turn words that have clear non-negative meanings and start implying that they are now a pejorative negative thing.

There should be nothing wrong with the word oriental. It simply describes a group of people and their appearance. People from different areas of the world look different.

 

[alcoholbob]

I'll bite, because that is completely stupid. The term Asian includes Middle Easterners, Indians, Filipinos, some Russians, etc... The term Oriental was extremely useful for describing those Asians who hail from the region known as the Orient. It should be considered no more offensive than the term Southerner or Eastern Euoropean.

Oriental is an old Middle Ages term meaning "From the East." It's an extremely antiquated term. The equivalent is calling white people "Occidentals".

 

[Subyman]

Oriental is an old Middle Ages term meaning "From the East." It's an extremely antiquated term. The equivalent is calling white people "Occidentals".

Whoa, "white" is an extremely antiquated term from the 1600's to describe a fair skinned human. That means its bad?

 

[alcoholbob]

Whoa, "white" is an extremely antiquated term from the 1600's to describe a fair skinned human. That means its bad?

It's a term used on the current United States census, so it's common use as of today. Oriental is an antiquated term that isn't used academically or by the government today nor is it in the typical conversational lexicon. It's a fossil.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Whoa, "white" is an extremely antiquated term from the 1600's to describe a fair skinned human. That means its bad?

Every time you say "white", you should be sure to provide ample trigger warnings to albinos who could potentially be offended.

Look, no one is saying that you shouldn't be respectful of people. I'm socially liberal; I'm fully in support of women or gays or transgender people to be treated with respect and called whatever they want. But you can't expect people to abandon all language that deals with labels; putting things into groups is the only way we have to deal with EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE WORLD. It's an inherent part of humanity. If someone calls you by the wrong label, getting offended that labels exist isn't the proper approach to take; that's like solving the problem of homelessness by decreeing that no one is allowed to build houses. You politely correct the person, and if they give you a hard time, fuck them, they're an asshole. But don't assume everyone is an asshole just because they use a female pronoun when you look like a woman.

 

[Subyman]

It's a term used on the current United States census, so it's common use as of today. Oriental is an antiquated term that isn't used academically or by the government today nor is it in the typical conversational lexicon. It's a fossil.

What I'm saying is just because it is old, doesn't mean it is bad or can't be used. If it was requisitioned by hate groups then that changes everything.

 

[Exophase]

How is feminism, a movement aimed at improving society's treatment of women, supposed to address a person who doesn't identify as a woman?

I know, I know, feminism is defined as believing in gender equality. Except almost no one ever uses feminism as a platform for anything other than women's issues (there's a lot of overlap with other movements for other groups but they're still not really part of feminism). It's viewed as a movement for gender equality under the lens that such equality is achieved strictly by aiding women, hence the name.

And even if people do start using feminism as a banner to help people who don't identify as women why would you need feminism to be that over some other movement?

 

[Cozarkian]

Oriental is an old Middle Ages term meaning "From the East." It's an extremely antiquated term. The equivalent is calling white people "Occidentals".

The term was in common use in the '80s. The term remained in use in the 90s, as many people were unaware that it was suddenly considered derogatory. In fact, the 2004 Tony award winning play, Avenue Q, has a person use the term without any clue that it is considered offensive (said person is immediately educated by the Asian character). It also remains in use today to describe items, most commonly Oriental rugs.

The word might have old origins, but it is not antiquated.

For the record, I would not be offended by the term Occidental. It would be a useful word for describing people of Western European origin, although not nearly as many people would understand the meaning.

 

[Cozarkian]

How is feminism, a movement aimed at improving society's treatment of women, supposed to address a person who doesn't identify as a woman?

I know, I know, feminism is defined as believing in gender equality. Except almost no one ever uses feminism as a platform for anything other than women's issues (there's a lot of overlap with other movements for other groups but they're still not really part of feminism). It's viewed as a movement for gender equality under the lens that such equality is achieved strictly by aiding women, hence the name.

And even if people do start using feminism as a banner to help people who don't identify as women why would you need feminism to be that over some other movement?

True, but gender identityism is a mouthful.

 

[irishScott]

Dammit I'm not white, I'm of Irish heritage! Don't lump me in with those people of French heritage!

 

[waggy]

Dammit I'm not white, I'm of Irish heritage! Don't lump me in with those people of French heritage!

Nobody wants to be lumped in with the French.

hairy armpits? barf

 

[OverVolt]

I'm sure the person with lip piercings works at a fortune 500 company.

Some people just make bad choices and try to blame others. Part of the reason they make bad choices to begin with. No personal accountability.

 

[CPA]

Oriental is an old Middle Ages term meaning "From the East." It's an extremely antiquated term. The equivalent is calling white people "Occidentals".

Just because it's antiquated doesn't mean it's wrong or bad.

 

[Exophase]

For the record, I would not be offended by the term Occidental. It would be a useful word for describing people of Western European origin, although not nearly as many people would understand the meaning.

My mother, who was born in Israel, once insisted that that made her oriental. When I prodded her on this she said I was occidental and I thought she was calling me an accident.