Gen. Wesley Clark: Iraq war based on 'misjudgment'

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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From retired Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO supreme commander.

Bush-bitches, do you know more about the military than Retired General Clark? How do your views compare with his?

Gen. Wesley Clark: Iraq war based on 'misjudgment'

"First of all, the idea that this was going to solve the war on terror. The president said this is the centerpiece of the war on terror. Seems to me that the only terrorists we're finding there are the ones who have come back in to attack us since we arrived.

There was a misjudgment about what would happen afterward. The idea that we would go in, be welcomed as liberators. They'd quickly move to the ballot boxes, we'd bring our troops home, out before the heat wave hit.

That didn't happen either. There have been a whole series of issues associated with this campaign, starting from why we went into Iraq, to how we dealt with our allies, to how we prepared for the aftermath, that are very, very troublesome."

 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
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bobdn, please lay off the bush bitches comment, its only to incite a flamewar

but yeah I agree with him, the plan and expectations before the war were unrealistic
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
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The key word is retired. How long has he been retired?

Two, of course hes bashing Bush, hes going to be announcing that his going to run for president. Duh...
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Czar
bobdn, please lay off the bush bitches comment, its only to incite a flamewar

but yeah I agree with him, the plan and expectations before the war were unrealistic

I'll lay off the Bush-bitch comments when UQ lays off his profanity laden attacks.

Why is no one here asking UQ to stop inciting flame wars?

Profanity is just the attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcefully.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
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Interesting... but you seem to be ignoring one faily important piece of information about Gen. Wesley Clark - he retired in May 2000. He has no idea what Bush and the current military leaders know.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: daniel1113
Interesting... but you seem to have forgotten one faily important piece of information about Gen. Wesley Clark - he retired in May 2000. He has no idea what Bush and the current military leaders know.

Do you believe retired generals, former supreme NATO commanders, lose touch with the military establishment?

There are former military people on these forums who claim to have inside knowledge of today's military. Are we to believe Retired General Clark is out of the loop while former enlisted people here are still in it?

Ridiculous.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
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The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
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Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Czar
bobdn, please lay off the bush bitches comment, its only to incite a flamewar

but yeah I agree with him, the plan and expectations before the war were unrealistic

I'll lay off the Bush-bitch comments when UQ lays off his profanity laden attacks.

Why is no one here asking UQ to stop inciting flame wars?

Profanity is just the attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcefully.
then you stop it and make him look like {insert your own word} instead of you both looking like {insert your own word}
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
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Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Interesting... but you seem to have forgotten one faily important piece of information about Gen. Wesley Clark - he retired in May 2000. He has no idea what Bush and the current military leaders know.

Do you believe retired generals, former supreme NATO commanders, lose touch with the military establishment?

There are former military people on these forums who claim to have inside knowledge of today's military. Are we to believe Retired General Clark is out of the loop while former enlisted people here are still in it?

Ridiculous.
They are trying to make a living selling thier previous knowledge by going to massive media outlets. I do beileve what clark is saying is true though. However once your out of the military, your out. BTW lay of the bushes bitchs, it just shows how immature you are and puts up a huge flame war.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Czar
bobdn, please lay off the bush bitches comment, its only to incite a flamewar

but yeah I agree with him, the plan and expectations before the war were unrealistic

I'll lay off the Bush-bitch comments when UQ lays off his profanity laden attacks.

Why is no one here asking UQ to stop inciting flame wars?

Profanity is just the attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcefully.
then you stop it and make him look like {insert your own word} instead of you both looking like {insert your own word}

We should probably be discussing this in private instead of taking up space on the forums but I've already tried stopping.

No one comments when UQ is making his ususal profanity laced attacks. Why am I held to a different standard?

You know what? It's a no-win situation. One set of rules for UQ but if anyone retaliates they are held to a different set of rules. It's all BS.
 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
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He has a political agenda like everyone else, which is why he sat at the 'map board' on CNN night after night bashing every military leader and talking about how "he" would run chit...
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Czar
bobdn, please lay off the bush bitches comment, its only to incite a flamewar

but yeah I agree with him, the plan and expectations before the war were unrealistic

I'll lay off the Bush-bitch comments when UQ lays off his profanity laden attacks.

Why is no one here asking UQ to stop inciting flame wars?

Profanity is just the attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcefully.
then you stop it and make him look like {insert your own word} instead of you both looking like {insert your own word}

We should probably be discussing this in private instead of taking up space on the forums but I've already tried stopping.

No one comments when UQ is making his ususal profanity laced attacks. Why am I held to a different standard?

You know what? It's a no-win situation. One set of rules for UQ but if anyone retaliates they are held to a different set of rules. It's all BS.
UQ shouldn't attack you either, deserving or not.

The difference is, you are trolling everyone, where he attacks you directly. Neither are appropriate. So why don't you keep personal attacks, personal?
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
From retired Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO supreme commander.

Bush-bitches, do you know more about the military than Retired General Clark? How do your views compare with his?

Gen. Wesley Clark: Iraq war based on 'misjudgment'

"First of all, the idea that this was going to solve the war on terror. The president said this is the centerpiece of the war on terror. Seems to me that the only terrorists we're finding there are the ones who have come back in to attack us since we arrived.

There was a misjudgment about what would happen afterward. The idea that we would go in, be welcomed as liberators. They'd quickly move to the ballot boxes, we'd bring our troops home, out before the heat wave hit.

That didn't happen either. There have been a whole series of issues associated with this campaign, starting from why we went into Iraq, to how we dealt with our allies, to how we prepared for the aftermath, that are very, very troublesome."
Nothing you posted nor anything in the article you linked to has anything to do with Gen. Clarks military experience. They are all political issues, not military ones and of course the General now has the benefit of hindsight to declare there have been "misjudgements".
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
He may not be totally out of the loop, but he doesnt have all the information, not even close. And besides, like I and others point out, he HAS a political agenda for bashing Bush and the war in Iraq.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
He may not be out of the loop, but he does not have access to classified military information. I never said that anyone here who tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are is lying. I said that they don't have the inside, classified information that Bush and his military advisors have access to.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
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Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
He may not be totally out of the loop, but he doesnt have all the information, not even close. And besides, like I and others point out, he HAS a political agenda for bashing Bush and the war in Iraq.
Agreed, not sure I exactly what you mean by his political agenda... The goverment or NATO has no reason to keep him in the loop. He doesnt work for them, its not logical to give him information at all.

 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
He may not be totally out of the loop, but he doesnt have all the information, not even close. And besides, like I and others point out, he HAS a political agenda for bashing Bush and the war in Iraq.
Agreed, not sure I exactly what you mean by his political agenda... The goverment or NATO has no reason to keep him in the loop. He doesnt work for them, its not logical to give him information at all.
General Clark is running for president as a democrat... that is why he has a political agenda.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
He may not be totally out of the loop, but he doesnt have all the information, not even close. And besides, like I and others point out, he HAS a political agenda for bashing Bush and the war in Iraq.
Agreed, not sure I exactly what you mean by his political agenda... The goverment or NATO has no reason to keep him in the loop. He doesnt work for them, its not logical to give him information at all.
General Clark is running for president as a democrat... that is why he has a political agenda.
Oh that explains it...
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: daniel1113
The government does not release classified information to retired generals. Anyone who claims to have "inside" information is either misinformed or lying.

What General Clark has said may have been true 4 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

So when anyone here tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are they are lying? I'll keep that in mind.

General Clark (Ret.) was one of the highest ranking military men in the world. Officers in his position are never out of the loop.
He may not be out of the loop, but he does not have access to classified military information. I never said that anyone here who tells us they are more informed about military operations than we are is lying. I said that they don't have the inside, classified information that Bush and his military advisors have access to.
Wasn't Clark also one of the critics of the Gulf War II plan who subsequently had to eat crow over his doomsday predictions?
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
2
0
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: BOBDN
From retired Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO supreme commander.

Bush-bitches, do you know more about the military than Retired General Clark? How do your views compare with his?

Gen. Wesley Clark: Iraq war based on 'misjudgment'

"First of all, the idea that this was going to solve the war on terror. The president said this is the centerpiece of the war on terror. Seems to me that the only terrorists we're finding there are the ones who have come back in to attack us since we arrived.

There was a misjudgment about what would happen afterward. The idea that we would go in, be welcomed as liberators. They'd quickly move to the ballot boxes, we'd bring our troops home, out before the heat wave hit.

That didn't happen either. There have been a whole series of issues associated with this campaign, starting from why we went into Iraq, to how we dealt with our allies, to how we prepared for the aftermath, that are very, very troublesome."
Nothing you posted nor anything in the article you linked to has anything to do with Gen. Clarks military experience. They are all political issues, not military ones and of course the General now has the benefit of hindsight to declare there have been "misjudgements".
I think it's fair to hold our Commander-in-Chief to a slightly higher standard than anyone else in terms of forsight, especially when it comes to a near-trillion-dollar war in which hundreds, nearly thousands of our troops and innumerable Iraqi troops and civilians were killed.

He has the most sophisticated and accurate intelligence in the world, not to mention the most qualified advisors behind him. To simply chalk the blunders that Clark mentions up to "hindsight is 20/20" is idiotic.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: konichiwa
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: BOBDN
From retired Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO supreme commander.

Bush-bitches, do you know more about the military than Retired General Clark? How do your views compare with his?

Gen. Wesley Clark: Iraq war based on 'misjudgment'

"First of all, the idea that this was going to solve the war on terror. The president said this is the centerpiece of the war on terror. Seems to me that the only terrorists we're finding there are the ones who have come back in to attack us since we arrived.

There was a misjudgment about what would happen afterward. The idea that we would go in, be welcomed as liberators. They'd quickly move to the ballot boxes, we'd bring our troops home, out before the heat wave hit.

That didn't happen either. There have been a whole series of issues associated with this campaign, starting from why we went into Iraq, to how we dealt with our allies, to how we prepared for the aftermath, that are very, very troublesome."
Nothing you posted nor anything in the article you linked to has anything to do with Gen. Clarks military experience. They are all political issues, not military ones and of course the General now has the benefit of hindsight to declare there have been "misjudgements".
I think it's fair to hold our Commander-in-Chief to a slightly higher standard than anyone else in terms of forsight, especially when it comes to a near-trillion-dollar war in which hundreds, nearly thousands of our troops and innumerable Iraqi troops and civilians were killed.

He has the most sophisticated and accurate intelligence in the world, not to mention the most qualified advisors behind him. To simply chalk the blunders that Clark mentions up to "hindsight is 20/20" is idiotic.
There's nothing idiotic about it (as long as we disregard your reply). I didn't hear Clark saying before the war what all these problems were going to be and my comment about him having hindsight is dead on. I am in no way "chalking" anything up to his having hindsight except for it now makes it very easy to point out what the "misjudgements" were. What is idiotic is lending credence to someone who is now sitting 8th row-center and doing nothing put pointing at things that have already happened and saying, "That was a misjudgement, so was that, and that, and that one too." Thank you Captain Obvious you've been a big help.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113General Clark is running for president as a democrat... that is why he has a political agenda.
He said he hasn't decided yet:

BROWN: General, what say we make news here? Going to run?

CLARK: I haven't made a decision. It's not time to make a decision yet.
 

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