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No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
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The sad truth.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
The sad truth.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: SampSon
No we don't have the power. If we did, they would have been changed already.Laws are a group decision, & we have the power to change them.
Society without the ability to hold individuals to an accepted standard is anarchy, if you don't like the laws you have options to change them.
The majority does not rule. The govt. is now ruling your life.
http://www.ballot.org/states/Oregon.pdf
Viper GTS
Maybe you have that in Oregon, but here in Alabama gay marriage was banned by our legislature. No consent by the people. I'm sure they would have banned it anyway though.
NO consent by the people?!?! Well then, how did the legislature become the legislature, exactly? Were a bunch of good ol' boys sittin' around drinkin' late one night out by the scrap yard, and one of 'em says, "I'm bored, Hoss. Let's form a bicameral governing body, and declare ourselves the legislature!!!"
Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Originally posted by: cashman
"I'm very upset that this travesty is taking place in Oregon. It definitely is an insult to the voters and to the people," said Kevin Mannix, chairman of the Oregon Republican Party, who called for the state attorney general to put a halt to the marriages immediately.
I'm beginning to hate my party because of these comments...
Travesty?
I'd say that when any particular part of government completely disregards what the voters say and goes against the laws in place, that is a travesty. As a voter, I'd at least like to have the illusion that I, along with the other voters, have some say in the way my county, state, country, etc. is run.
That being said, it's kind of a sticky issue. I completely believe gays should have the right to get married if they wish. On the other hand I believe that we vote for a reason and the outcomes of those votes should be honored. Eh, pick the lesser of two evils. Either the voters get told to go fvck themselves and what they want doesn't matter or the gays do. No pun intended of course...
Ok? So you can propose laws, big deal. Thousand of laws are proposed every year. From requiring breathalizer tests to start you car, to legalizing crack. It still has to be accepted and passed by the state legislature. That is where 99.9999% of thoes proposals end. Instead of showing my something that says, "citizens can propose new laws or amendments to current laws", show me something that gives figures for how many of thoes proposals actaully got past the petition phase.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: SampSon
No we don't have the power. If we did, they would have been changed already.Laws are a group decision, & we have the power to change them.
Society without the ability to hold individuals to an accepted standard is anarchy, if you don't like the laws you have options to change them.
The majority does not rule. The govt. is now ruling your life.
http://www.ballot.org/states/Oregon.pdf
(LMK if that PDF doesn't work, Acrobat Reader is flaky as hell here on my work machine & I haven't been able to open it - It's probably my problem, but if the PDF is bad I'll find something else for you)
Viper GTS
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Originally posted by: SampSon
Ok? So you can propose laws, big deal. Thousand of laws are proposed every year. From requiring breathalizer tests to start you car, to legalizing crack. It still has to be accepted and passed by the state legislature. That is where 99.9999% of thoes proposals end. Instead of showing my something that says, "citizens can propose new laws or amendments to current laws", show me something that gives figures for how many of thoes proposals actaully got past the petition phase.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: SampSon
No we don't have the power. If we did, they would have been changed already.Laws are a group decision, & we have the power to change them.
Society without the ability to hold individuals to an accepted standard is anarchy, if you don't like the laws you have options to change them.
The majority does not rule. The govt. is now ruling your life.
http://www.ballot.org/states/Oregon.pdf
(LMK if that PDF doesn't work, Acrobat Reader is flaky as hell here on my work machine & I haven't been able to open it - It's probably my problem, but if the PDF is bad I'll find something else for you)
Viper GTS
I can file a request to have my court case heard by the supreme court. I can petition the UN. I can do a lot of things that will come to a very abrupt end when confronted with who is in a seat of power.
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Originally posted by: SampSon
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Since I'm jewish and rich, id say I'm a fan of #1 alex.Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: SampSon
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Whatever. So, are you a fan of the "a Jewish cabal runs the world" theory, or are you a "U.N. and black helicopters" kinda guy?
Then it has to go through the attorney general and the secretary of state. It also states that the attorney general must make a determination of the legality of the proposal, based on current laws. It also says the legislature may freely repeal or amend any initiative in which is passes. It also says the initiatives and amendments must "concern a single subject and be simliar to reforms that could be enacted by the legislature".Do you even know what a ballot initiative is? If enough signatures are collected it goes DIRECTLY on the ballot. Whether it passes or not is up to the voters alone.
Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: SampSon
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Whatever. So, are you a fan of the "a Jewish cabal runs the world" theory, or are you a "U.N. and black helicopters" kinda guy?
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: SampSon
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Whatever. So, are you a fan of the "a Jewish cabal runs the world" theory, or are you a "U.N. and black helicopters" kinda guy?
So because someone doesn't want the goverment to watch them pee everyday it makes them a conspiracy nut? Right...
I just don't like the government regulating every goddamn thing out there simply because of dimwits that can't think or fight for themselves.
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: SampSon
If everyone stopped voting, the govt. would still be in power and would still have people to rule you.Sorry to inform you, but the majority does rule. It just does so very poorly. We've got exactly the gov't an ill-informed, short-sighted, mentally lazy electorate wants.
Whatever. So, are you a fan of the "a Jewish cabal runs the world" theory, or are you a "U.N. and black helicopters" kinda guy?
So because someone doesn't want the goverment to watch them pee everyday it makes them a conspiracy nut? Right...
I just don't like the government regulating every goddamn thing out there simply because of dimwits that can't think or fight for themselves.
Is that even what I said? No. I was merely taking issue with his claim that majority doesn't rule - of course it does. If people wanted change, we'd vote for it. As it is, we don't. BTW, most of your fellow citizens are more than happy to have the gov't regulate every little thing in life. We've already turned over vast portions of our lives to the gov't, and the clear trend is to continue to do so - see the universal healthcare or SS debates if you think otherwise.
hahaha how naive. People are turning control of their lives over to the govt. because they don't know any better. They think it's right.Is that even what I said? No. I was merely taking issue with his claim that majority doesn't rule - of course it does. If people wanted change, we'd vote for it. As it is, we don't. BTW, most of your fellow citizens are more than happy to have the gov't regulate every little thing in life. We've already turned over vast portions of our lives to the gov't, and the clear trend is to continue to do so - see the universal healthcare or SS debates if you think otherwise.
You're damned right, although I don't think that is necesarily a polar opposite to the quote you were refuting. Both of you agree that the people are turning themselves over to the government.Originally posted by: SampSon
hahaha how naive. People are turning control of their lives over to the govt. because they don't know any better. They think it's right.Is that even what I said? No. I was merely taking issue with his claim that majority doesn't rule - of course it does. If people wanted change, we'd vote for it. As it is, we don't. BTW, most of your fellow citizens are more than happy to have the gov't regulate every little thing in life. We've already turned over vast portions of our lives to the gov't, and the clear trend is to continue to do so - see the universal healthcare or SS debates if you think otherwise.
They can't think for themselves, let alone understand a fraction of the maze the govt. has setup to keep them complacent.
The reality of how they are living is accepted because they are too fat, lazy and caught up in THINGS they OWN to care about the state of affairs in america.
The majority is now a flock of mindless hamburger chugging drones.
Originally posted by: SampSon
The majority is now a flock of mindless hamburger chugging drones.
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Their leader hath spoken :evil:Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Oh no, the Sodomites are taking over, hide the children and cover your ass. We are all doomed
I'm glad they're issuing licenses personally
True. Though, viper is implying that the legality takes precedence over the morality of the issue. Which I don't agree with.You're damned right, although I don't think that is necesarily a polar opposite to the quote you were refuting. Both of you agree that the people are turning themselves over to the government.
No way, govt. is WAY more removed from the public now than ever.what do you mean "now"? it has always been that way.
Originally posted by: bozack
big mistake leaving the term marriage in their laws...for everyone not just gays it should be union...oh well.
Next few months/years should be interesting.