Gay Man Accuses Sen. Cory Booker Of Sexual Assault In Restroom

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
So what are we supposed to do with this info?

Do we treat it like the president does and yell fake news?

Do we treat it like the Republicans do and scream that it's a political stunt and should be ignored?

Or do we treat it like the Democrats do and claim anyone willing to come forward, under oath, with historical corroboration, is telling the truth?

Hmm...
The answer is easy. He takes a lie detector test and goes to the FBI. When that happens we deal with it.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,937
9,220
136
I'm actually pretty neutral on this. Certainly not going to believe it 100%, but there could be enough details here that may or may not be verified over time. The only thing I'd say smells fishy is his choice of lawyer (sorry, but hiring an RNC operative screams political hit job.) Also, call me old fashioned but I only believe the victim after I know who the victim is... They will need to come forward publicly at some point. The victim says that Booker called him a "hero" and visited his workplace...but says he's a "nobody". Is he police/firefighter/military?

Things that need verification:

- Will Ronan Farrow come forward and share anything? Was he contacted? Has he been able to vet any details?

- Will date/time of alleged encounter line up with Booker's schedule? Are there any other witnesses who saw Booker at this workplace?

- Did the victim tell anyone about the encounter contemporaneously? Will anyone be able to testify that they were told about this?

- I don't know anything about Booker's sexuality but I thought he was straight--does he have a history of "on the DL" sexual encounters with men? Or anything else that would establish a pattern of behavior?

Unlike Kavanaugh, Booker is entirely accountable to the court of public opinion. If this alleged incident becomes more credible, no way he is elected president, and re-election to the Senate might even be in question.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
ThIs is a win-win for Booker. If this is another in the long line of bullshit conspiracy theories like birtherism his ending position will be stronger.

If he "grabbed em' by the dick" he gets elected President.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,040
136
This is easy. If the accusation is true, he should be thrown the *** out of the Senate, and any/all criminal charges should be brought against him.

If it's true?

Just how in the hell are third parties supposed to judge a private exchange between two people?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
If it's true?

Just how in the hell are third parties supposed to judge a private exchange between two people?

The same way we always do, by evaluating the relative credibility of the two sources. In the case of Kavanaugh the accuser was highly credible and Kavanaugh lied repeatedly under oath.

Here there’s nothing more than an anonymous accusation so that’s not credible.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Ford signed her name and sent it to her congressional representative. She identified herself.
She also asked for confidentiality. She got shoved into the firing line.

If this guy comes forward like the many accusers of rapist Judge Kavnaugh then more power to him. If not then it will obvious the plan was to concern troll all along.
What we need is for Ronan Farrow to publish an article in the New Yorker that cites as a reference someone who spoke to someone else who knew the roommate of someone who heard that Booker was playing Spartacus in the men’s room.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
This is a particularly pathetic attempt at concern trolling.

Anyone who has an accusation of sexual assault should come forward and people should be ready to believe them if their accusation is credible as we all know the accusations against Kavanaugh were. In this case we have an anonymous accusation from a conservative website so that is clearly not credible. If more information comes up I would be glad to re-evaluate.

This is a great example of conservatives swallowing their own bullshit though. Because they had to talk themselves into supporting Kavanaugh they lied about what Democrats were saying and decided that Democrats were arguing for ALL accusations to be accepted as true regardless of their credibility. Because this is what they thought the standard was they think attacks like this are witty when in reality it just shows how deeply dishonest their position was from the beginning.
Underlined sentence is the critical piece of information here. What it means is every accusation that involves only two people is judged on personal opinion. In the political arena it will always break on party lines. In practical terms that's a good thing, otherwise sexual misconduct accusations become the ultimate political weapon. Guilt or innocence becomes a popularity contest, it will all boil down to who can put on the better show of emotion, or who is liked the most.
You stated that the accusations against Kavanaugh were credible, half the senate decided they weren't. Your response will be that they're all crooked republicans, and we end up back in a never ending loop.
Credible accusation has to mean actual evidence or we'll never get off the treadmill.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
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Underlined sentence is the critical piece of information here. What it means is every accusation that involves only two people is judged on personal opinion. In the political arena it will always break on party lines. In practical terms that's a good thing, otherwise sexual misconduct accusations become the ultimate political weapon. Guilt or innocence becomes a popularity contest, it will all boil down to who can put on the better show of emotion, or who is liked the most.

This is projection. I have no doubt that conservatives will do that because, well, we see conservatives routinely dismiss evidence if it conflicts with their political beliefs. Liberals may do this to some extent but overall it’s not even remotely the same. For example do you think Kavanaugh would have been withdrawn if he were a democratic nominee? Of course he would have been.

It’s very important not to assume that the two parties are mirror images of each other because they’re not.

You stated that the accusations against Kavanaugh were credible, half the senate decided they weren't. Your response will be that they're all crooked republicans, and we end up back in a never ending loop.
Credible accusation has to mean actual evidence or we'll never get off the treadmill.

There is actual evidence in a sworn statement. This is considered evidence in every court on the planet. There is also evidence that the accused deliberately attempted to mislead the Senate about issues directly related to the accusation. A reasonable person would look at one person clearly lying and decide they are less credible. By your standard of evidence you are basically immunizing all people who commit sexual assault so long as it isn’t in front of witnesses, which it almost never is.

As for the Republicans of course they were doing it out of political convenience. We all know that. Their reasons for ‘believing’ him didn’t even make internal logical sense.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Lol. What a laughable story. Booker goes to take a peek, runs into a guy in bathroom and tries to overpower and rape him in the middle of the day. Got it. About as credible as the pizza parlor sex slave ring story.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
This is projection. I have no doubt that conservatives will do that because, well, we see conservatives routinely dismiss evidence if it conflicts with their political beliefs. Liberals may do this to some extent but overall it’s not even remotely the same. For example do you think Kavanaugh would have been withdrawn if he were a democratic nominee? Of course he would have been.

It’s very important not to assume that the two parties are mirror images of each other because they’re not.



There is actual evidence in a sworn statement. This is considered evidence in every court on the planet. There is also evidence that the accused deliberately attempted to mislead the Senate about issues directly related to the accusation. A reasonable person would look at one person clearly lying and decide they are less credible. By your standard of evidence you are basically immunizing all people who commit sexual assault so long as it isn’t in front of witnesses, which it almost never is.

As for the Republicans of course they were doing it out of political convenience. We all know that. Their reasons for ‘believing’ him didn’t even make internal logical sense.
We're still dealing with opinion. I do agree that my approach gives predators an edge, but the other side of that gives tremendous power to the alleged victim. That absolutely will be weaponized, it will be used and abused until sexual misconduct becomes a standard accusation against every politician. Look at what you've said right here, it's all the evil republicans, you've already convicted every republican that will ever be accused.
I absolutely refuse to accept guilt based on politics.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
We're still dealing with opinion. I do agree that my approach gives predators an edge, but the other side of that gives tremendous power to the alleged victim. That absolutely will be weaponized, it will be used and abused until sexual misconduct becomes a standard accusation against every politician.

This is not a new standard and what you’re describing has not happened. So I would say history pretty conclusively shows that’s wrong. Your approach doesn’t just give predators an edge, it basically immunizes them for life so long as they only assault people in private. As a nation we can never stand for that level of endorsed criminal activity.

Instead we should continue to evaluate accusations the way we always have.

Look at what you've said right here, it's all the evil republicans, you've already convicted every republican that will ever be accused.
I absolutely refuse to accept guilt based on politics.

That’s a ridiculous straw man, I said the Republicans acted unethically here because...well... it’s obvious that they did.

I also absolutely refuse to accept guilt based on politics which is why we should stick with my standard. To go with yours is to say because political considerations exist for some people we should just ignore sex crimes. And yes, that’s exactly what your approach would do.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
Keith Ellison is full steam ahead. Show me a Democrat that stands behind his accuser.

If you read about Keith Ellison outside of conservative media you might see a big reason why, haha. His accuser says she has video of the incident, which if true would absolutely sink him. She has been asked repeatedly to release the evidence she claims she has and at this point still refuses to, which makes it appear she lied about that. I assume you agree this punches a large hole in her credibility?

This was a big reason why objective people sided with Ford over Kavanaugh, by the way. When Kavanaugh started dissembling about facts related to the case a reasonable person thinks he’s lying about other things too.

Thank you for so clearly showing the difference between Democrats and Republicans though, haha.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
I'm actually pretty neutral on this. Certainly not going to believe it 100%, but there could be enough details here that may or may not be verified over time. The only thing I'd say smells fishy is his choice of lawyer (sorry, but hiring an RNC operative screams political hit job.) Also, call me old fashioned but I only believe the victim after I know who the victim is... They will need to come forward publicly at some point. The victim says that Booker called him a "hero" and visited his workplace...but says he's a "nobody". Is he police/firefighter/military?

Things that need verification:

- Will Ronan Farrow come forward and share anything? Was he contacted? Has he been able to vet any details?

- Will date/time of alleged encounter line up with Booker's schedule? Are there any other witnesses who saw Booker at this workplace?

- Did the victim tell anyone about the encounter contemporaneously? Will anyone be able to testify that they were told about this?

- I don't know anything about Booker's sexuality but I thought he was straight--does he have a history of "on the DL" sexual encounters with men? Or anything else that would establish a pattern of behavior?

Unlike Kavanaugh, Booker is entirely accountable to the court of public opinion. If this alleged incident becomes more credible, no way he is elected president, and re-election to the Senate might even be in question.

Well, since you went there, so were Dr. Ford's attorneys. I believe those attorneys were referred to her by Feinstein. Both instances reek of political hit attempts.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
He also called for a full investigation and Democrats have sent it to the local authorities.

If multiple people came out and said Ellison had lied about significant aspects of his alibi he would be gone in no time.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
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Dr Ford's credibility seems to be in question as well despite ones deeply partisan desire to believe otherwise.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/409651-dr-fords-credibility-problem

Speaking of deeply partisan desires to believe something you just linked an opinion piece from a conservative activist group.

If you are interested in an actual opinion of Ford’s credibility from an expert and not a political activist you can read this here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/18/former-sex-crimes-prosecutor-analyzed-fords-allegations-against-kavanaugh-heres-her-take/

Your post really showcases what I’m talking about here. Conservatives view everything through the lens of politics so when an activist opinion writer says what they want to believe they don’t think twice.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
We're still dealing with opinion. I do agree that my approach gives predators an edge, but the other side of that gives tremendous power to the alleged victim. That absolutely will be weaponized, it will be used and abused until sexual misconduct becomes a standard accusation against every politician. Look at what you've said right here, it's all the evil republicans, you've already convicted every republican that will ever be accused.
I absolutely refuse to accept guilt based on politics.

More projection.

I think the last stat I heard on this matter is that something like 6% of rape claims were verified false (as in the victim was making it up).
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Speaking of deeply partisan desires to believe something you just linked an opinion piece from a conservative activist group.

If you are interested in an actual opinion of Ford’s credibility from an expert and not a political activist you can read this here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/18/former-sex-crimes-prosecutor-analyzed-fords-allegations-against-kavanaugh-heres-her-take/

Your post really showcases what I’m talking about here. Conservatives view everything through the lens of politics so when an activist opinion writer says what they want to believe they don’t think twice.


What of the authors points do you discount?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
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What of the authors points do you discount?

I’ll give you one, the author lied about what the other people who attended the party said about it. The author claimed everyone else present denied being at the party when in reality the other members said they didn’t remember and one in particular says she believes Ford is telling the truth. This is a wild distortion of the facts. If the author lied about that what else would she lie about?

This is more than that piece deserves as it is from a non-credible source.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
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What’s sad is that UC’s source being immediately shown to be garbage will not prevent him from believing the next conservative opinion piece that tells him what he wants to hear.
 
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