Gavin Newsom draws line on SF street behavior: City now ‘too permissive’

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
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I know that SF and other large cities with high tech companies were having problems with the homeless living, shooting up and depositing human waste on the city sidewalks and streets but did not realize it was this bad. This is just two of the articles. Another article said the cleanup crews go out every morning picking up numerous used needles and wash the feces and urine off of the sidewalks so people can walk safely.

Seattle tried to put a head tax on high tech companies to pay for facilities for the homeless but the high tech companies fought back and the city backed down. IIRC SF tried to add a tax to big companies to try and resolve the homeless problem and I believe it did not work out.

Are the "new" homeless people attracted to these cities for the jobs and can't get them because because of the cost of living? Are they attracted to these cities because they are too permissive?


Gavin Newsom draws line on SF street behavior: City now ‘too permissive’
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/mati...F-street-behavior-13286274.php?t=47b637c9b0&f
Former Mayor and Democratic gubernatorial candidate Gavin Newsom says San Francisco has become “too permissive” when it comes to open drug use and other bad behavior on the city’s streets.

“People shooting up on the streets and sidewalks, where kids are in strollers, is not acceptable — it’s just not,” Newsom said during a visit to The Chronicle’s editorial board last week
...
“You can be too permissive, and I happen to think we have crossed that threshold in this state — and not just in this city,” Newsom said. “You see it. It’s just disgraceful.”


Diseased Streets
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Diseased-Streets-472430013.html
An NBC Bay Area Investigation reveals a dangerous concoction of drug needles, garbage, and feces lining the streets of downtown San Francisco. The Investigative Unit surveyed more than 150 blocks, including some of the city’s top tourist destinations, and discovered conditions that are now being compared to some of the worst slums in the world.


chartoftheday_6949_the_us_cities_with_the_most_homeless_people_n.jpg


https://www.google.com/search?sourc....0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131j0i10.EyWPkxmlw2o
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
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Some of the cities make sense, but only a truly desperate person, would be homeless in New York, DC, or Philadelphia, in the winter.

Before they were called homeless, when I was a child, they were called hobos. Remember the caricature of the guy walking along the railroad tracks with everything that he owned in a big blanket hanging on the end of the stick? And all they did was ride the rails, and it was almost an adventurous, and romantic lifestyle in a Norman Rockwell kind of way.

220px-Hobos2.jpg


Even they knew enough to head south or west for the winter.
 
Last edited:

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Some of the cities make sense, but only a truly desperate person, would be homeless in New York, DC, or Philadelphia, in the winter.

Before they were called homeless, when I was a child, they were called hobos. Remember the caricature of the guy walking along the railroad tracks with everything that he owned in a big blanket hanging on the end of the stick? And all they did was ride the rails, and it was almost adventurous, and romantic lifestyle in a Norman Rockwell kind of way.

Even they knew enough to head south or west for the winter.

Those cities have robust systems for sheltering and helping the homeless. It’s not like all (or even most of) those people are actually living on the streets, they are in shelters, temporary housing, etc. The number actually on the streets is a few thousand.

If you look at the cities most impacted though they are the cities with the highest housing costs for the most part. Not to turn this into another housing screed but when people say they don’t want to build denser housing well, this is one of the things you get.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
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Isn't Newsom the guy that was boning his subordinate when he was mayor of SF? I received my mail in ballot a couple days ago. I didn't vote for him. I also wrote in a candidate for Senator.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,106
2,157
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Some of the cities make sense, but only a truly desperate person, would be homeless in New York, DC, or Philadelphia, in the winter.

Before they were called homeless, when I was a child, they were called hobos. Remember the caricature of the guy walking along the railroad tracks with everything that he owned in a big blanket hanging on the end of the stick? And all they did was ride the rails, and it was almost an adventurous, and romantic lifestyle in a Norman Rockwell kind of way.

220px-Hobos2.jpg


Even they knew enough to head south or west for the winter.



My 90 yo mother-in-law grew up in a small town in New York state and said they had a small number of homeless men in the town. Before winter hit the police would round them up and put them to work around the jail to keep warm and give them warm meals.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,106
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Those cities have robust systems for sheltering and helping the homeless. It’s not like all (or even most of) those people are actually living on the streets, they are in shelters, temporary housing, etc. The number actually on the streets is a few thousand.

If you look at the cities most impacted though they are the cities with the highest housing costs for the most part. Not to turn this into another housing screed but when people say they don’t want to build denser housing well, this is one of the things you get.


I understand the high housing costs in these large cities but how does that relate to the high use of hard drugs on the street? Every city that I have ever lived in always had some level of homeless people. Some were just on the down and out, some had mental problems and others were druggies.

How does letting them shoot up on the streets help them?
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
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I don't know about the other areas, but the SF/San Jose numbers are almost solely due to lack of affordable housing. I live in Palo Alto and you can see people living in cars/RVs on a daily basis. They all generally keep to themselves and are clean to avoid trouble. I don't blame them, rent here is stupid, a 1bdr for $2k-$3k, come on. And they just keep building office space for some reason. Seems like it is a 2:1 ratio of office:residential in my area. Obviously the developers would rather keep the rents high to make more $$.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
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I know that SF and other large cities with high tech companies were having problems with the homeless living, shooting up and depositing human waste on the city sidewalks and streets but did not realize it was this bad. This is just two of the articles. Another article said the cleanup crews go out every morning picking up numerous used needles and wash the feces and urine off of the sidewalks so people can walk safely.

Seattle tried to put a head tax on high tech companies to pay for facilities for the homeless but the high tech companies fought back and the city backed down. IIRC SF tried to add a tax to big companies to try and resolve the homeless problem and I believe it did not work out.

Are the "new" homeless people attracted to these cities for the jobs and can't get them because because of the cost of living? Are they attracted to these cities because they are too permissive?


Gavin Newsom draws line on SF street behavior: City now ‘too permissive’
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/mati...F-street-behavior-13286274.php?t=47b637c9b0&f



Diseased Streets
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Diseased-Streets-472430013.html



chartoftheday_6949_the_us_cities_with_the_most_homeless_people_n.jpg


https://www.google.com/search?sourc....0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131j0i10.EyWPkxmlw2o
There is more to this story then what you post.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I understand the high housing costs in these large cities but how does that relate to the high use of hard drugs on the street? Every city that I have ever lived in always had some level of homeless people. Some were just on the down and out, some had mental problems and others were druggies.

I’m not aware of data that shows per capita drug use is higher in these cities then elsewhere?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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Hard core drug users flock to bigger cities because of availability and price, much more available and cheaper in a big city as opposed to podunkville.
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Those cities have robust systems for sheltering and helping the homeless. It’s not like all (or even most of) those people are actually living on the streets, they are in shelters, temporary housing, etc. The number actually on the streets is a few thousand.

If you look at the cities most impacted though they are the cities with the highest housing costs for the most part. Not to turn this into another housing screed but when people say they don’t want to build denser housing well, this is one of the things you get.
You don't see a lot of homelessness in the country where housing density is low. You see it where the housing density is the highest, like New Your City. Seems like the more housing there is the more it will be filled by people who can afford the high rents that come with living someplace worth living in. Wouldn't the obvious answer be the same as the problem of parking? You can't have businesses where everybody has to park on the street. Zoning laws often require businesses to provide parking on sight for employees. Just do the same for housing. Employees have to live on sight in business owned housing. This solves not only the housing problem, but the traffic commute time and pollution problem. We could think of them as industrial or business farms and could also be surrounded by green spaces including parks and farms.

Instead of having reason fix just the homelessness issue we could use it to fix everything.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,426
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Hard core drug users flock to bigger cities because of availability and price, much more available and cheaper in a big city as opposed to podunkville.
Great, so all we need to do to clean up the cities is to offer free drugs in our deserts.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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You don't see a lot of homelessness in the country where housing density is low. You see it where the housing density is the highest, like New Your City. Seems like the more housing there is the more it will be filled by people who can afford the high rents that come with living someplace worth living in. Wouldn't the obvious answer be the same as the problem of parking? You can't have businesses where everybody has to park on the street. Zoning laws often require businesses to provide parking on sight for employees. Just do the same for housing. Employees have to live on sight in business owned housing. This solves not only the housing problem, but the traffic commute time and pollution problem. We could think of them as industrial or business farms and could also be surrounded by green spaces including parks and farms.

Instead of having reason fix just the homelessness issue we could use it to fix everything.

We had that 100 years ago. It was called Company Towns & was often extremely abusive.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,029
48,004
136
You don't see a lot of homelessness in the country where housing density is low. You see it where the housing density is the highest, like New Your City. Seems like the more housing there is the more it will be filled by people who can afford the high rents that come with living someplace worth living in. Wouldn't the obvious answer be the same as the problem of parking? You can't have businesses where everybody has to park on the street. Zoning laws often require businesses to provide parking on sight for employees. Just do the same for housing. Employees have to live on sight in business owned housing. This solves not only the housing problem, but the traffic commute time and pollution problem. We could think of them as industrial or business farms and could also be surrounded by green spaces including parks and farms.

Instead of having reason fix just the homelessness issue we could use it to fix everything.

Actually one of the reasons for California’s affordability problem is that it’s not dense at all. The more housing you build the cheaper it gets.

This does raise another good point though, that we should abolish zoning that mandates parking. It’s a huge waste of valuable land.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,426
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We had that 100 years ago. It was called Company Towns & was often extremely abusive.
I think you could make quite a difference between housing required by law as opposed to housing offered by companies used to enslave people.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
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I don't know about the other areas, but the SF/San Jose numbers are almost solely due to lack of affordable housing. I live in Palo Alto and you can see people living in cars/RVs on a daily basis. They all generally keep to themselves and are clean to avoid trouble. I don't blame them, rent here is stupid, a 1bdr for $2k-$3k, come on. And they just keep building office space for some reason. Seems like it is a 2:1 ratio of office:residential in my area. Obviously the developers would rather keep the rents high to make more $$.

They charge that much, because people will pay that much.

If EVERYBODY decided to live somewhere else, and commute, or live in their cars/RVs, you would find those prices dropping faster than a priest's pants with an altar boy.