Gave employee a written warning - employee refused to sign and walked out

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DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Storm has a good point - I didn't think about the difference between a franchise and a family owned establishment.

gsethi, after my post, you added "He told both employees couple of times" - previously it was just that he warned them that you'd get mad if you saw them without the visor, which made sense since one of them went and put the visor on when you came in. Again, if this is what the manager said then either you have an ineffective manager, else the employees are being in subordinate to your manager.

But, as I said before, unless there's some sort of huge financial repercussion for such a trivial rule violation, good employees in the fast food industry are few and far between. My advice (which I rarely see followed in the fast food industry) is to pick your battles wisely with good employees. If the issue is that your store can get fined, let them know that's the reason you're being so strict about the dress code.

Since I know a couple people will mention it's not hard to find employees; no, it's not. But, then you have to train them, deal with additional paperwork, etc. It's far better to get some decent employees and hang on to them as long as possible.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
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The only time I ever had to sign a "warning", I got fired. I could see why people would react in this manner to these things. It's basically signing a piece of paper saying "I will not sue you for being an anal retentive prick of a boss". I won't ever sign one again, either. Ever wonder why almost every person who watched American Beauty sees the father as a hero for blackmailing his company?
 
Aug 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: gsethi
Originally posted by: minendo
The employee has the right to refuse to sign it.

True...but at least let me know if you are going to show up next scheduled day or not (especially since you are walking out) and there is no reason to scream or give an attitude (just say it politely)

Then why'd you keep pressing the issue of signing it?

Because he is the boss and you can't have employees that don't respect that. The employee doesn't have to sign the warning, and the employer doesn't have to keep him employed either. I would write in his file that the employee voluntarily left his job by walking off the job.
That way you don't have to pay for unemployment. If he shows up for his next shift, tell him when he walked off the job it was a sign of him terminating his employment. If he wants to continue working there, he will need to be re-hired (at a lower salary of course).
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,144
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Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Because he is the boss and you can't have employees that don't respect that. The employee doesn't have to sign the warning, and the employer doesn't have to keep him employed either. I would write in his file that the employee voluntarily left his job by walking off the job.
That way you don't have to pay for unemployment. If he shows up for his next shift, tell him when he walked off the job it was a sign of him terminating his employment. If he wants to continue working there, he will need to be re-hired (at a lower salary of course).

That MIGHT fly in Tex-Ass, but not in any of the "civilized" states...;)
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
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Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Because he is the boss and you can't have employees that don't respect that. The employee doesn't have to sign the warning, and the employer doesn't have to keep him employed either. I would write in his file that the employee voluntarily left his job by walking off the job.
That way you don't have to pay for unemployment. If he shows up for his next shift, tell him when he walked off the job it was a sign of him terminating his employment. If he wants to continue working there, he will need to be re-hired (at a lower salary of course).

That MIGHT fly in Tex-Ass, but not in any of the "civilized" states...;)

Oh by "civilized" you mean Nanny States. Someone walks off the job that's a sign that they quit. Sorry, I have a business to run and can't 2nd guess someones actions.
I've had similar incidents when I was a manager, and someone stormed off before the end of their shift. I filled out the paperwork and recorded them as a self-termination.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,144
12,460
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Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Because he is the boss and you can't have employees that don't respect that. The employee doesn't have to sign the warning, and the employer doesn't have to keep him employed either. I would write in his file that the employee voluntarily left his job by walking off the job.
That way you don't have to pay for unemployment. If he shows up for his next shift, tell him when he walked off the job it was a sign of him terminating his employment. If he wants to continue working there, he will need to be re-hired (at a lower salary of course).

That MIGHT fly in Tex-Ass, but not in any of the "civilized" states...;)

Oh by "civilized" you mean Nanny States. Someone walks off the job that's a sign that they quit. Sorry, I have a business to run and can't 2nd guess someones actions.
I've had similar incidents when I was a manager, and someone stormed off before the end of their shift. I filled out the paperwork and recorded them as a self-termination.

From the original post:
punched out on the time machine(was getting off ~5 min later

Are you posting from work? You're not working if you are, after all, if you have time to nef on ATOT, you have time to do something productive...should you (and for that matter, most of ATOT) be fired? You're stealing from your employer!
 

mattocs

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2005
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I signed my resignation form thing at a previous employer 'fuck you'...I smiled, and walked out.

Fuck them.
 
Nov 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: minendo
The employee has the right to refuse to sign it.

And I've so refused to sign a few times...

"Here sign this. We're writing you up for insubordination."

"Fuck you, I ain't signing that!"

"Well you HAVE to sign it!"

"Fuck you, I'm NOT signing it and you can wipe your fat ass with it for all I care."

"Well, I'll just fire you then."

"Go ahead, I can use a few days off. Then I'll call the union hall, they'll make you reinstate me with full pay for the time I was off, and we'll be back to square one....go get my checks so I can have a fucking vacation! "
The nerve of some people...thinking that I might be insubordinate..stupid pricks. :D


Gawd I loved the years when construction jobs were so plentiful that you could quit one at noon and be working somewhere else the following morning...<sigh>
Those days are gone...for now...but they'll be back. (I hope)

Thank god for unions so losers like you can do a shitty job and get promoted for it. :roll:
Obviously reading isn't your strong suite, He said he'd go get a different job.

neither is yours, he's obviously referring to the first part of BoomerD's post.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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Originally posted by: gsethi
Originally posted by: minendo
The employee has the right to refuse to sign it.

True...but at least let me know if you are going to show up next scheduled day or not (especially since you are walking out) and there is no reason to scream or give an attitude (just say it politely)

It would be illegal for you to give him an insubordination write up for refusing to sign his warning as well.

You seem to have a lot of problems with employees.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,706
28
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Now 7 pieces of flair is the minimum...and if you want to do the minimum that's fine...but Edward over there has 22 pieces of flair on
 

gsethi

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2002
3,457
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From the original post:
punched out on the time machine(was getting off ~5 min later

Are you posting from work? You're not working if you are, after all, if you have time to nef on ATOT, you have time to do something productive...should you (and for that matter, most of ATOT) be fired? You're stealing from your employer![/quote]


I am the Owner ;)

Update: No call, no show by the employee. Employee was on regular schedule for this week.
 

Josh

Lifer
Mar 20, 2000
10,917
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Originally posted by: gsethi
From the original post:
punched out on the time machine(was getting off ~5 min later

Are you posting from work? You're not working if you are, after all, if you have time to nef on ATOT, you have time to do something productive...should you (and for that matter, most of ATOT) be fired? You're stealing from your employer!


I am the Owner ;)

Update: No call, no show by the employee. Employee was on regular schedule for this week.[/quote]

What franchise do you own?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
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Update: No call, no show by the employee. Employee was on regular schedule for this week.


Well then I guess s/he made that decision easy for you.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,144
12,460
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Originally posted by: gsethi
From the original post:
punched out on the time machine(was getting off ~5 min later

Are you posting from work? You're not working if you are, after all, if you have time to nef on ATOT, you have time to do something productive...should you (and for that matter, most of ATOT) be fired? You're stealing from your employer!


I am the Owner ;)

Update: No call, no show by the employee. Employee was on regular schedule for this week.[/quote]

wasn't referring to you...;)
If he/she didn't show, I think you can presume they called in quit.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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Originally posted by: gsethi

EDIT: (Complete Story)
I own couple of Franchises. The warnings were for not wearing proper uniform.

Did he/she not wear enough pieces of flair?
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: ric1287
The whole "signing warnings" thing is stupid anyhow.

"I'm going to yell at you for doing something wrong, now please sign this waiver stating that I yelled at you"

it's a legal thing.
companies usually file these warnings under employee records.
if the employee is fired, and happens to sue for some kind of illegetimate termination, then the company has evidence to defend itself.

I'm a lawyer, but because this is a forum and I am shooting from the hip this is not legal advice. rely on it at your own risk.

If you are the owner of a franchise, most of your employees should be "at will" employees. That is, you can fire them for whatever the hell reason you want, so long as that reason is not prohibited by law (e.g., race, sex, sexual orientation etc.). Just tell the person that their services are no longer required. If they ask why, just say that they are an at will employee, and that they are no longer employeed at your franchise.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,144
12,460
136
Originally posted by: soxfan
Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: ric1287
The whole "signing warnings" thing is stupid anyhow.

"I'm going to yell at you for doing something wrong, now please sign this waiver stating that I yelled at you"

it's a legal thing.
companies usually file these warnings under employee records.
if the employee is fired, and happens to sue for some kind of illegetimate termination, then the company has evidence to defend itself.

I'm a lawyer, but because this is a forum and I am shooting from the hip this is not legal advice. rely on it at your own risk.

If you are the owner of a franchise, most of your employees should be "at will" employees. That is, you can fire them for whatever the hell reason you want, so long as that reason is not prohibited by law (e.g., race, sex, sexual orientation etc.). Just tell the person that their services are no longer required. If they ask why, just say that they are an at will employee, and that they are no longer employeed at your franchise.


True, but this is Kahleeforneeya, and he's trying to avoid having to pay the unemployment for this person. If he just lets them go with no reason, (at-will status) he'll definitely get stuck for the unemployment. He needs a valid reason to fire him/her if he doesn't want to pay unemployment.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: soxfan
Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: ric1287
The whole "signing warnings" thing is stupid anyhow.

"I'm going to yell at you for doing something wrong, now please sign this waiver stating that I yelled at you"

it's a legal thing.
companies usually file these warnings under employee records.
if the employee is fired, and happens to sue for some kind of illegetimate termination, then the company has evidence to defend itself.

I'm a lawyer, but because this is a forum and I am shooting from the hip this is not legal advice. rely on it at your own risk.

If you are the owner of a franchise, most of your employees should be "at will" employees. That is, you can fire them for whatever the hell reason you want, so long as that reason is not prohibited by law (e.g., race, sex, sexual orientation etc.). Just tell the person that their services are no longer required. If they ask why, just say that they are an at will employee, and that they are no longer employeed at your franchise.

bingo

Every retail place I have worked at has made me sign and agreement that they can fire me whenever the hell they want, which is perfectly fine.

If you can't get employees to listen to you, you either:
A: suck balls at being a manager.
B: are hiring the wrong people in the first place.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Now 7 pieces of flair is the minimum...and if you want to do the minimum that's fine...but Edward over there has 22 pieces of flair on

Damn beat me to it
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: soxfan
Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: ric1287
The whole "signing warnings" thing is stupid anyhow.

"I'm going to yell at you for doing something wrong, now please sign this waiver stating that I yelled at you"

it's a legal thing.
companies usually file these warnings under employee records.
if the employee is fired, and happens to sue for some kind of illegetimate termination, then the company has evidence to defend itself.

I'm a lawyer, but because this is a forum and I am shooting from the hip this is not legal advice. rely on it at your own risk.

If you are the owner of a franchise, most of your employees should be "at will" employees. That is, you can fire them for whatever the hell reason you want, so long as that reason is not prohibited by law (e.g., race, sex, sexual orientation etc.). Just tell the person that their services are no longer required. If they ask why, just say that they are an at will employee, and that they are no longer employeed at your franchise.


True, but this is Kahleeforneeya, and he's trying to avoid having to pay the unemployment for this person. If he just lets them go with no reason, (at-will status) he'll definitely get stuck for the unemployment. He needs a valid reason to fire him/her if he doesn't want to pay unemployment.

This is a good point. But doesn't OP own several restaurant establishments? In most of those establishments, hats or hair nets are required to comply with the state health code (at least one the east coast). I would think that repeated (or even one) violation of the health code would be a sufficiently valid reason to fire an at-will restaurant employee without triggering unemployment.


 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: soxfan
Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: ric1287
The whole "signing warnings" thing is stupid anyhow.

"I'm going to yell at you for doing something wrong, now please sign this waiver stating that I yelled at you"

it's a legal thing.
companies usually file these warnings under employee records.
if the employee is fired, and happens to sue for some kind of illegetimate termination, then the company has evidence to defend itself.

I'm a lawyer, but because this is a forum and I am shooting from the hip this is not legal advice. rely on it at your own risk.

If you are the owner of a franchise, most of your employees should be "at will" employees. That is, you can fire them for whatever the hell reason you want, so long as that reason is not prohibited by law (e.g., race, sex, sexual orientation etc.). Just tell the person that their services are no longer required. If they ask why, just say that they are an at will employee, and that they are no longer employeed at your franchise.

bingo

Every retail place I have worked at has made me sign and agreement that they can fire me whenever the hell they want, which is perfectly fine.

If you can't get employees to listen to you, you either:
A: suck balls at being a manager.
B: are hiring the wrong people in the first place.

In my experiences, low level employees (retail, food, etc) made up of teenagers and the guy that "is starting college up again pretty soon" don't give two shits about the "company". The level of work you get comes from the respect of the manager. After a couple months when you realize the company doesn't care about you, the respect of your manager is the only way they will work hard.

I've had both types: awesome, laid back managers. And dickwadd micro-managing idiots (the type that make you sign "you fucked up" forms) and guess who gets more productivity out of their employees?

edit * - Haha, meant to edit, not reply to my reply. Oh well, you get the gist.