Gates comments about lack of skilled US techies

[cubby1223]

Link

Didn't see a similar thread in the search...

But just to through it out there, why computer science majors in the US are declining. My theory is that the job market is just too uncertain. I have a computer engineering degree from the University of Illinois, and have seen more than enough computer science hopefuls give up, mainly because other degrees lead to just as sufficient jobs & likely much more stable employment.

I do like the article's suggestion that the lack of women in the field is a concern. As we have to give up all our social lives to make it in the field, the presence of more women certainly can't hurt dragging us out to the lectures each week.

And FYI, even though I have the degree, I'm not exactly in the engineering job market.

Thoughts?

 

[notfred]

It's fine by me if there's a shortage of computer science people. It'll just give me better job offers and higher salaries.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: notfred
It's fine by me if there's a shortage of computer science people. It'll just give me better job offers and higher salaries.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[zerocool1]

I completely agree. The stability of the IT industry in the US is declining because of fears of outsourcing. I've read many articles about this in the past. In my core CS classes there are typically 10-12 people. In comparison to my business classes that have 30 or so people. I'm not in the upper level business classes yet, as I declared my business major 2 years ago and I'm dealing with the lower level core classes in for that major, gen eds, classes for my german minor and my cs core classes.

 

[DAGTA]

Majors are declining because it's not worth the cost of the education anymore. It's hard to compete when you have to spend $50,000 to $100,000 on a college education and then you have Indians underbidding you with $10/hour bids for your work.

 

[Deeko]

CS majors are declining because the idiots that don't really want to do it aren't majoring in it anymore. After the "dot com" boom, many many people majored in CS or IST simply because of jobs/money. Now those people are gone, and most CS majors are here because they actually enjoy what they do.

 

[SagaLore]

Note that he said "computer science". I completely agree. Many colleges have shifted away from the computer science degrees that teach the fundamental concepts of computer logic, algorithms, history, machine language, etc. Now they are teaching "technical" degrees, that deal with fixing computer hardware, setting up and maintaining networks and windows based servers, some specialties like cisco routing and linux. They have replaced C and C++ with Java and C#. They interested in filling up the market with entry level helpdesk people rather than programming engineers that would know how to write an OS from scratch.

 

[Nitemare]

IBM thinks that there is a lack of buildings in the US

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Majors are declining because it's not worth the cost of the education anymore. It's hard to compete when you have to spend $50,000 to $100,000 on a college education and then you have Indians underbidding you with $10/hour bids for your work.

That's the biggest issue I see myself, we've got other jobs to work at here for similar pay and much more stability. Over in India, atleast the impression I have, is either you become a highly skilled tech guy, or work in a sweatshop... Gee, if that were my motivation over here, certainly I would have worked 10x as hard to get a tech job.

Hopefully this is a tie-in with the report a few weeks ago about Gates urging against the outsourcing of jobs.

Or maybe get some mobs over there to help unions and force higher wages for the Indians so we all can benifit?

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
Note that he said "computer science". I completely agree. Many colleges have shifted away from the computer science degrees that teach the fundamental concepts of computer logic, algorithms, history, machine language, etc. Now they are teaching "technical" degrees, that deal with fixing computer hardware, setting up and maintaining networks and windows based servers, some specialties like cisco routing and linux. They have replaced C and C++ with Java and C#. They interested in filling up the market with entry level helpdesk people rather than programming engineers that would know how to write an OS from scratch.

IST....I hate IST majors. Only because they are so high on themselves("Deeko you know I'm going to be hiring you some day, because I don't like programming"), when 98% of them will be help desk or company tech support...very few actually reach high levels.

 

[Reckoner]

While I agree that some people just entered the major solely for the bloated salaries pre-dot.com bust, there are just as many who don't like the lack of stability in the IT market to enter it. It's not fun owing thousands of dollars in loans, and having to work a McJob while trying to break in.

 

[TourGuide]

The global economy strikes again.

There are few US companies who value technological expertise. Who wants to get a degree only to find themselves taking a second job to pay the bills? It didn't take long for the business community to figure out they could finance the next round of upgrades by paying their lan techs 30K a year. Man I don't know how people do it on that nickle.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
While I agree that some people just entered the major solely for the bloated salaries pre-dot.com bust, there are just as many who don't like the lack of stability in the IT market to enter it. It's not fun owing thousands of dollars in loans, and having to work a McJob while trying to break in.

Well then you should be good at what you do, and thus get a job...I still have two years of college left and I've already gotten a job offer...

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: TourGuide
The global economy strikes again.

There are few US companies who value technological expertise. Who wants to get a degree only to find themselves taking a second job to pay the bills? It didn't take long for the business community to figure out they could finance the next round of upgrades by paying their lan techs 30K a year. Man I don't know how people do it on that nickle.

These are the industries you have to work in if you're going to get paid for CS/IST work:
1) MAJOR software companies (MS, MS, MS and MS. Game companies don't count, except for Sony)
2) Defense contractors (Mmmm avionics, targeting computers, etc.) - but you need a security clearance
3) Google
4) Banks

 

[ultimatebob]

I think that what Gates REALLY meant is that there is a lack of skilled US techies that will work for peanuts. In other words, he and the other big tech CEO's trying to get H1B immigration quotas lifted again. That way, they can bring in even more Indian and Chinese employees who are willing to work for half of what a comparible US employee would. Greedy Bastard.

 

[91TTZ]

One thing you have to understand is that Gates is a businessman. He sees that the US wage is too high, and he's complaining about it. There is no lack of qualified computer professionals in the US, there is a lack of qualified computer professionals in the US that will work for the wage he wants to pay.

So what he's going to do is claim how there are plenty of qualified people in China and India, prepping us for what's to come in the future. How convenient that he would say that, those 2 countries have the cheapest labor costs around. Of course he's going to send jobs over there, that's money in his pocket. Just the same that textiles are made in pakistan now, and how automobiles are made in Canada and Mexico. The reasons they give vary, but the end result is always the same- the jobs go to the cheapest workers. Actions speak louder than words.

This isn't about skill, this is about money.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I think that what Gates REALLY meant is that there is a lack of skilled US techies that will work for peanuts. In other words, he and the other big tech CEO's trying to get H1B immigration quotas lifted again.

Bingo.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
While I agree that some people just entered the major solely for the bloated salaries pre-dot.com bust, there are just as many who don't like the lack of stability in the IT market to enter it. It's not fun owing thousands of dollars in loans, and having to work a McJob while trying to break in.

Well then you should be good at what you do, and thus get a job...I still have two years of college left and I've already gotten a job offer...

It's not as simple as that. I've been looking for close to a year now. I performed well in school, but I'm not as "connected" as my friends are. A couple of friends of mine couldn't even graduate on time and had low GPA's, but still got jobs rather quick because of connections. Stuff like this happens all too often.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The article on this in the Seattle Times noted that MS "prefers" to hire only fresh college graduates, so their difficulty in finding people stems at least partly from not wanting to hire experienced people who have worked elsewhere.

Fresh college grads = will take low pay, will work long (unpaid overtime) hours for it, and have fresh, moldable minds that can be properly indoctrinated into the MS way of thinking.

(e.g. "following standards" means MS embraces, extends, and extinguishes, "freedom to innovate" means leveraging the Windows monopoly to crush your enemies and hear the lamentation of the women.)

 

[m2kewl]

that's how MS get n00b college grads. i was given low salary, some stock options, and told to work 50+hr/week.

then you put 1 + 1 together and realize you can make more elsewhere...

edit: i did learn a lot, MS' internal teams are top notch. i still have friends in NC and WA, so i'm not complaining...