Gassing the Kurds- a war crime or an act of war?

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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By Stephen C. Pelletiere
New York Times OP-ED

It was no surprise that President Bush, lacking smoking gun evidence of Iraq's weapons programs, used his State of the Union address to re-emphasize the moral case for an invasion:
"The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages, leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind or disfigured"
The accusation that Iraq has used chemical weapons against its citizens is a familiar part of the debate, and the hard evidence repeatedly brought up is the gassing of the Iraqi Kurds at the town of Halabja in March 1988 near the end of the eight-year Iran-Iraq war.
Bush himself has cited Iraq's "gassing its own people", specifically at Halabja, as a reason to topple Saddam Hussein.
But the truth is, all we know for certain is that Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. Many facts surrounding the event have been overlooked or grossly distorted.
I am in a position to know because, as the Central Intelligence Agency?s senior political analyst on Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, and a professor at the Army War College from 1988 to 2000, I was privy to much of the classified materials that flowed through Washington having to do with the Persian Gulf.
This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtly know: it came about in the course of battle between the Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target.
And the story gets murkier: immediately after the battle of the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified repot, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study concluded it was the Iran gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.
The agency did not find that each size used gas against the other in the battle around Halabja. The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies, however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent- that is, a cyanide-based gas- that Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time.
These facts have long been in the public domain, but as often as the Halabja affair is cited, they are rarely mentioned.
On the rare occasions the report is brought up, there is usually speculation, with no proof, that it was skewed out of American political favoritism toward Iraq in its war against Iran.
I am not trying to rehabilitate the character of Saddam Hussein. HE has much to answer for in the area of human rights abuses. But accusing him of gassing his own people at Halabja as an act of genocide is not correct, because as far as the information we have goes, all the cases where gas was used involved battles. These were the tragedies of war. There may be justifications for invading Iraq, but Halabja is not one of them.
In fact, those who really feel that the disaster at Halabja has bearing on today might want to consider a different question: Why was Iran so keen on taking the town? A close look may shed light on America's impetus to invade Iraq.
We are constantly reminded that Iraq has perhaps the world's largest reserves of oil. But in a regional and perhaps even geopolitical sense, it may be more important that Iraq has the most extensive river system in the Middle East.
IN addition to the Tigris and the Euphrates, there are the Greater Zab and less Zab rivers in the north of the country. Iraq was covered with irrigation works by the 6th century AD, and was a granary for the region.
Before the Persian Gulf War, Iraq had built an impressive system of damns and river control projects, the largest being the Darbandikhan damn in the Kurdish area. And it was this dam the Iranians were aiming to take control of.
In the 1990s there was much discussion of the construction of the so-called Peace Pipeline that would bring the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates south to the parched Gulf States, and by extension, Israel. No progress has been made on this, largely because of Iraqi intransigence. With Iraq in American hands, of course, all that could change.
Thus American could alter the destiny of the Middle East in a way that probably could not be challenged for decades - not solely by controlling Iraq's oil, but by controlling its water.
All that is needed to get us into war is one clear reason for acting, one that would be generally persuasive. But efforts to link the Iraqis directly to Osama Bin Laden have proved inconclusive.
Assertions that Iraqi threatens its neighbors have also failed to create much resolve; in its present debilitated condition - thanks to UN sanctions - Iraq's conventional forces threaten no one.
The Strongest argument left for taking us to war quickly is that Saddam has committed human rights atrocities against his people. And the most dramatic case - the one involving using non-conventional weapons on his own citizens- are the accusation about Halabja.
Before we go to war over Halabja, the administration owes the American people the full facts. And if it has other examples of Saddam gassing Kurds, it must show that they were not pro-Iranians Kurdish guerrillas who died fighting alongside Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
 

HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
16,997
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Did you use the "search" function before you posted this?

The topic has been debated to death. Neither side is going to give an inch in their beliefs.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
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there was a similar thread - if not an identical one with the same n.y. times op-ed piece posted - that refutes
nearly every point. do a search.

to recap in brief:
This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtly know: it came about in the course of battle between the Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target.

this is untrue. eyewitness accounts on the ground, who were the people who survived the chemical attack, report no iranian forces
within their town, observed an iraqi helicopter in the moments before the shelling began measuring wind currents, the town itself
was one among dozens of others similarly attacked with wmd by iraqi forces over a 12 month period, 'chemical ali' himself is caught on tape stating who the specific targets were (hint: nothing about the iranians), and there is a human rights watch report that details this and more. google for the human rights watch report.

 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
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My bad...I read this in the morning and felt like posting it.


As for those picutres- we see the same thing now of civilians dying yet we say its war...if it can be excusable by war now can't it be by war then.


and if it really has been debated a million times then let the mods lock it
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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I do not feel like searching for it, but there is an article that quotes the CIA and other higher-ups as saying that the Chemical Weapon used was a type that only IRan had at the time and that Saddam did not have any chemical weapons that related to the way these people died.

I will try to remember to find the article.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
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Who ever said using WMD was acceptable in any war?

I just posted that because I took offense to the last part of the ariticle..

"Before we go to war over Halabja, the administration owes the American people the full facts. And if it has other examples of Saddam gassing Kurds, it must show that they were not pro-Iranians Kurdish guerrillas who died fighting alongside Iranian Revolutionary Guards."


Also notice in the atricle I linked Iraqi citizens identified the planes bombing them as Iraqi, no mention of Iranian forces, more attacks occured in 1987.

 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Dahuan, its this article.



this is untrue. eyewitness accounts on the ground, who were the people who survived the chemical attack, report no iranian forces
within their town, observed an iraqi helicopter in the moments before the shelling began measuring wind currents, the town itself
was one among dozens of others similarly attacked with wmd by iraqi forces over a 12 month period, 'chemical ali' himself is caught on tape stating who the specific targets were (hint: nothing about the iranians), and there is a human rights watch report that details this and more. google for the human rights watch report.

Now you have to consider the objectivity of this. Kurds who want "Kurdistan" to exist would definitely look better had it been Iraq that done it....and it would have been extremely juicy if it wasn't in a battle between Iranian and Iraqi forces where civilians always get hurt the most.

Now I'm going to have to consider the sources:

a) Kurds in a human rights report who have a motive for it being some illogical attack (why is the key question. You don't just gas people and have no reason)

b) CIA's Senior Political Analyst in the war and the professor at the Army War College who has no motive for it being for or against it



 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Originally posted by: magomago
Dahuan, its this article.



this is untrue. eyewitness accounts on the ground, who were the people who survived the chemical attack, report no iranian forces
within their town, observed an iraqi helicopter in the moments before the shelling began measuring wind currents, the town itself
was one among dozens of others similarly attacked with wmd by iraqi forces over a 12 month period, 'chemical ali' himself is caught on tape stating who the specific targets were (hint: nothing about the iranians), and there is a human rights watch report that details this and more. google for the human rights watch report.

Now you have to consider the objectivity of this. Kurds who want "Kurdistan" to exist would definitely look better had it been Iraq that done it....and it would have been extremely juicy if it wasn't in a battle between Iranian and Iraqi forces where civilians always get hurt the most.

Now I'm going to have to consider the sources:

a) Kurds in a human rights report who have a motive for it being some illogical attack (why is the key question. You don't just gas people and have no reason)

b) CIA's Senior Political Analyst in the war and the professor at the Army War College who has no motive for it being for or against it

Their is no logical process that leads to children being the victims of WMD,

If this was Iranian what better way to prove they needed the right of independence, apparently Saddam can't protect them.

That is the only article that I have seen that claims that, try and find more. Look at independent sources and see what they all say.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Gassing the Kurds- a war crime or an act of war?


Of course the use of WMD in war is prohibted and considered a war crime.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
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If the use of WMD is prohibited why does ANYONE have them! Why do we have them and why do we continue to produce it.

That is illogical


"If this was Iranian what better way to prove they needed the right of independence, apparently Saddam can't protect them."


Kurds have their own autonomy which the got in the 70s - not quite their own country since Baghdad orders will supercede it (almost like a state so to say but more power).

As for "protection" that is why the troops were there and remember civilians always get caught in war and I don't see how this is different
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
I do not feel like searching for it, but there is an article that quotes the CIA and other higher-ups as saying that the Chemical Weapon used was a type that only IRan had at the time and that Saddam did not have any chemical weapons that related to the way these people died.

cia reports, if you've combed through some of the iraqi dissident literature, tend not to be the most authoritative or
accurate in the intelligence business. since the cia doesn't possesse any telepathic abilities they have to rely on the same
intelligence sources as the rest of the planet, assuming they can reach and trust them. khadir hamza, saddam's former
chief nuclear scientist, was rebuffed in his first contacts with the cia in the early 1990s.

but since we're measuring our cia reports, you can peruse kevin pollack's recent book, 'the threatening storm'. look through
the index, under halabja, and you'll read how this former cia analyst casts not one doubt about who was responsible for the
attacks against the kurds. he, as every else was (except, curiously, stephen pelletiere), was fully aware about the iranian's
presence, their precise position on the day halabja was attacked, and iran's ebbing fortune at that point in the conflict.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
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EDIT.... Addition.. Everything below came from this page http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/docs/3203/

Blood agents were allegedly responsible for the most
infamous use of chemicals in the war?the killing of Kurds at
Halabjah. Since the Iraqis have no history of using these two
agents-and the Iranians do-we conclude that the Iranians
perpetrated this attack. It is also worth noting that lethal
concentrations of cyanogen are difficult to obtain over an area
target, thus the reports of 5,000 Kurds dead in Halabjah are
suspect.
Appendix B - Chemical Weapons

FROM Here
MARINE CORPS HISTORICAL PUBLICATION

FMFRP 3-203 - Lessons Learned: Iran-Iraq War,
10 December 1990

DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY
Headquarters United States Marine Corps
Washington, D.C. 20380-0001
10 December 1990
FOREWORD
1. PURPOSE
Fleet Marine Force Reference Publication (FMFRP) 3-203, Lessons
Learned: The Iran-Iraq War, Vol . I, provides useful information
to the reader about the Iran-Iraq War, particularly the lessons
that can be drawn from it.
2. SCOPE
This manual starts with an overview of the Iran-Iraq War. Then
it discusses the strategy followed by both sides and the tactics
which evolved as the war unfolded.
3. BACKGROUND
This manual was written by Dr. Stephen C. Pelletiere and LTC
Douglas V. Johnson II of the Strategic Studies Institute of the
U.S. Army War College. Originally, this version was intended as
a draft. Because the information in this manual is particularly
significant to forces participating in or preparing for Operation
Desert Shield, this manual has been published in its present
form.
4. RECOMMENDATIONS
This manual will not be revised. However, comments on it are
important because they will be used to improve other manuals.
Submit comments to --
Commanding General
Marine Corps Combat Development Command (WF12)
Quantico, VA 22134-5001

information in this manual is particularly significant to forces participating in or preparing for Operation Desert Shield, this manual has been published in its present form

 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
Now you have to consider the objectivity of this. Kurds who want "Kurdistan" to exist would definitely look better had it been Iraq that done it....and it would have been extremely juicy if it wasn't in a battle between Iranian and Iraqi forces where civilians always get hurt the most.

the objectivity consists in looking at the obvious pattern. halabja was not the only town to be attacked, and to be attacked
in the exact same fashion, although on a greater magnitude. there were literally dozens of such attacks that were part of the
none-too-secret al-anfal campaign against the kurds.

google al-anfal.

google the human right watch report on the halabja.

google the name chemical ali.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
maybe those were Iranian child soldiers.

Is it illogical to be able to own a car but not be able to use it to run someone over legally?
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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OT, but do you think if we asked nicely he would gas Wolf Blitzer? God I hate that guy..:Q;):p
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Al-Anfal

Halabja was neither an aberration nor a desperate act of a regime caught in a grinding, stalemated war. Instead, it was one event in a deliberate, large-scale campaign called Al-Anfal to kill and displace the predominately Kurdish inhabitants of northern Iraq. In an exhaustive study published in 1994, Human Rights Watch concluded that the 1988 Anfal campaign amounted to an extermination campaign against the Kurds of Iraq, resulting in the deaths of at least 50,000 and perhaps as many as 100,000 persons, many of them women and children.

Baghdad launched about 40 gas attacks against Iraqi Kurdish targets in 1987-88, with thousands killed. But many also perished through the regime's traditional methods: nighttime raids by troops who abducted men and boys who were later executed and dumped in mass graves. Other family members ? women, children, the elderly ? were arrested for arbitrary periods under conditions of extreme hardship, or forcibly removed from their homes and sent to barren resettlement camps. As Human Rights Watch details, Iraqi forces demolished entire villages ? houses, schools, shops, mosques, farms, power stations ? everything to ensure the destruction of entire communities.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/warning.htm


Why would the CIA and others produce/print a handbook about Iraq that claims that Iran was responsible for the deaths at Halbja (not totally disagreeing with you, but it just seems odd)
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
do a google search for Marsh Arabs.....


Do you think a Desert Marsh is a good thing? I have seen 60 minutes or PBS talk about them.. but I think the water is being used more efficiently now .. that is my somewhat ignorant opinion.. I do not know everything about them other than he took away the water...
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
Why would the CIA and others produce/print a handbook about Iraq that claims that Iran was responsible for the
deaths at Halbja (not totally disagreeing with you, but it just seems odd)

kevin pollack was a cia analyst at the time of halabja - albeit a junior analyst then - and he was certainly not alone in
reviewing the available evidence and reaching a difference conclusion than dr. pelletiere.

there is a famous book by kanan makiya, a prominent iraqi disident, called 'cruelty and silence', that provides an assessment
from the ground in halabja in the wake of the chemical assault. the al-anfal campaign involved not only systematic wmd assaults
but mass deportations and imprisonment of male kurds in concentration camps to the desert south.

the cia can accomodate competing views on any single issue (or issue-related event). internal camps coalesce around many
different points that pit one analyst group against another. in pollack's book, and in another by robert kaplan ('the arabists'),
we find that reagan bigwigs had a rosier view about hussein, the ba'th party, and their potential to be appeased, and their
view was dominate. the mere fact that there was a small group of junior analysts defending a competing viewpoint must have
been nothing unusual, and would not have garnered great attention.