I don't know if it's just in my area (Long Island, NY), but all the gas stations have regular for ~$3.00 and plus and premium for as much as 40-60 cents more. Usually there's only a 10-20 cent discrepancy between them. Anyone know why?
Gas prices
- Thread starter Rockinacoustic
- Start date
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
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My guess is that the high prices of gas has forced people to buy economy over plus/premium. Distributors and gas stations are stuck with a surplus of plus/premium that they bought at higher prices and are still trying to get rid of it, so they won't lower the price or they'll lose money.
Probably just them trying to siphon more money from drivers. If the difference is really that much, then just go ahead and buy regular, then fill in some octane boosters yourself?
Let's say you have a 17 gallon tank. At $0.40 difference, that's a $6.80 difference in cost. An octane booster from Walmart is like $3.50 So you still come out ahead.
Let's say you have a 17 gallon tank. At $0.40 difference, that's a $6.80 difference in cost. An octane booster from Walmart is like $3.50 So you still come out ahead.
Octane booster is expensive, it's much cheaper to just buy the gasoline.
Although.. hmm.. that's with the thinking that Premium is only 20 cents more than regular...
The thing is, there are lots of different octane boosters. The ones that raise octane the most are very expensive, 6-8$ a bottle. The cheap octane boosters might raise octane 0.1 points.
All of the cheap octane boosters are only designed to treat relatively small tanks. You would need two bottles for a 17 gallon, even if they say "up to 20 gallons". Obviously you are going to get more octane boost if you put the bottle in 10 gallons, rather than 20.
They work, but it's largely a marketing gimmick.
Supply and demand. New York has more higher compression engines (those that can afford to or justify having a car have a higer performance motor)...hence more demand. Supply remains constant.
Demo24
Diamond Member
- Aug 5, 2004
- 8,356
- 9
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I've noticed this where I am as well, although this has been going on since early summer. Seems I am lucky to find a place only 30 cents more than regular. It's rather annoying, especially since I don't have much of a choice in the matter. The places that do seem to keep this 20 cent rule are typically truck stops, but I rarely if ever stop at them.
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
What's the main difference between regular and premium as far as driving goes? Like I realize it's higher grade, but does it really make a noticeable performance difference? I always just use regular.
Ahh! It's a good thing I caught this so soon! Otherwise the thread may have spiraled out of control!
It may still.. lol
The difference between the different grades of gasoline is octane rating. Nothing more.
Octane rating is a measure of the fuel's resistance to spontaneously combusting under high heat and pressure. The higher the number, the more resistant it is to this.
There is no performance gain inherent to the gasoline. Infact, higher octane gasoline tends to contain less energy than regular, although they try and keep the difference to 2% or less, through formula variations.
The difference is in the engine. One of the specific characteristics of an engine is it's compression ratio, that is the volume of the cylinder when the piston is at BDC(Bottom Dead Center), compared to the volume at TDC(Top Dead Center).
This is expressed as a ratio, like 10:1. There are other things to take into account when figuring the octane a given engine needs, like combustion chamber design, but it is the compression ratio that matters the most.
The typical compression ratio for an engine that requires Regular is 8.0:1 - 9.0:1. A typical "high performance" engine that needs Premium will run at 9.0:1 - 11.0:1.
By compressing the fuel/air mixture to a higher ratio, you are effectively increasing the efficiency of the engine; it enables the reciprocating mass to extract more energy out of the fuel, which results in a higher specific power output.
So to sum it up, there is no point in using Plus or Premium in an engine that is designed to run on Regular, unless your engine is pinging due to deposits or other factors. But all modern engines have knock sensors, so at least no engine damage will result if there is pinging. However, running high octane fuel in an engine that isn't designed for it can actually increase carbon deposits in the combustion chamber, because of the slower, lower temperature combustion.
Edit: Some brands of gasoline purport to put more cleaning additives in their higher grade gasolines, lending to the belief that higher octane gasolines are somehow better. Whether this is true or just marketing fluff, the world may never know.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Originally posted by: Eli
Ahh! It's a good thing I caught this so soon! Otherwise the thread may have spiraled out of control!
It may still.. lol
The difference between the different grades of gasoline is octane rating. Nothing more.
Octane rating is a measure of the fuel's resistance to spontaneously combusting under high heat and pressure. The higher the number, the more resistant it is to this.
There is no performance gain inherent to the gasoline. Infact, higher octane gasoline tends to contain less energy than regular, although they try and keep the difference to 2% or less, through formula variations.
The difference is in the engine. One of the specific characteristc of an engine is it's compression ratio, that is the volume of the cylinder when the piston is at BDC(Bottom Dead Center), compared to the volume at TDC(Top Dead Center).
This is expressed as a ratio, like 10:1. There are other things to take into account when figuring the octane a given engine needs, like combustion chamber design, but it is the compression ratio that matters the most.
The typical compression ratio for an engine that requires Regular is 8.0:1 - 9.0:1. A typical "high performance" engine that needs Premium will run at 9.0:1 - 11.0:1.
By compressing the fuel/air mixture to a higher ratio, you are effectively increasing the efficiency of the engine; it enables the reciprocating mass to extract more energy out of the fuel, which results in a higher specific power output.
:thumbsup: Too bad 90% of people don't realize this.
I'm sure it's a secret they don't want to get out. Even just calling the different grades Regular, Plus and Premium is marketing genius.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
And I'm still not quite sure what it means.
This makes it sound like you only buy Premium if your car's engine manual asks for it.
How I choose gas:
"This stuff is cheapest, and it makes the car work."
I am to my car how most people are to their PCs. Input goes in. "Stuff" happens. Car moves.
Thanks to my Advanced Machine Design course though, I'm learning various car terminology, since most people in there seem to be car experts. Most recent vocabulary term (are you sitting?): Differential - the thing that splits rotational power from the drive shaft to the wheels.
Well, no, but I'd credit supply and demand to lower gas prices more-so than speculation, and vice-versa.
Hence, my point about supply and demand and high compression engines.
You can't dance around supply/demand.
The refineries being offline from the hurricanes in texas caused a shortage. Only like 2 or 3 gas stations out of like 20 in my town had premium for like 3 weeks and i'm in texas. Sucks because my car misses like crazy without premium, so throwing in two bottles of octane booster at $2 a bottle helped.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
You sound like a 10th grader who just took an intro to business class. Supply and demand does NOT apply when demand is inelastic. If the price of gasoline was suddenly $10 tomorrow, people would bitch about it and fill up their gas tanks - to the extent that their budget would allow. If they had open credit on their credit cards, they would use credit to purchase gas. Long term, there is some flexibility in demand, but not much.
Price of Coca-cola goes up to $20 a case, and demand will drop dramatically. Price of apples quadruples and demand for apples will drop severely. Price of gasoline triples and people will do what they can do limit their driving, but it's not as if they've been taking the long way to work all these years and suddenly decide to take a shorter route. A few people will be able to work from home, and some people will cancel unnecessary trips. But for the most part, demand for gasoline doesn't vary significantly.
Next lesson: oligopoly. When competition isn't really competition.
I have to put premium in my car because it's supercharged... I don't even look at prices anymore. Honestly, the gas station I go to... I couldn't even tell you how much it is per gallon. It doesn't matter. If I need gas, I need gas.
So if I buy a BMW that requires premium gas (according to the operating manual) and I decide to put(use) regular instead of the premium that the car requires, what happens?
zerocool84
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 36,041
- 472
- 126
The computer will adjust for the lower octane gas and your power will go down and you could lose mpg. Remember I said COULD lose mpg.
This is actually true for some brands of gasoline. Some name brand gasolines put a different additive package in their premium grade, or they use proportionally more additive than in their regular grade. Others just use the same amount in all their grades.
All gasoline sold in the US has some bare minimum additive package as required by law. Detergents and corrosion inhibiters are added to the gasoline to help protect the fuel system and keep the engine clean. These are actually required by the EPA to help reduce emissions. The additive package that is put into the gasoline beyond this is up to the station owner / franchise. For instance, most "branded" stations are actually owned by an individual or some local company rather than being owned by the big parent oil company. However, if you carry the BP, Chevron, Exxon, Mobil, Shell, etc, brand then you will need to put that company's additive package in the gasoline you sell. Either way, generally if you purchase branded gasoline, you will know that you are buying a good quality additive package.
R
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,396
- 8,558
- 126
it was a 20 cent spread at $1.50, why wouldn't it be more at $3.00.
that's still supply and demand. it just means that small changes in supply can lead to large shifts in the price. which is what we've seen.
demand for gasoline is generally short run inelastic, but long run it is quite elastic. we've already seen it with the civic outselling the F-150. people also changed their habits.
that's still supply and demand. it just means that small changes in supply can lead to large shifts in the price. which is what we've seen.
demand for gasoline is generally short run inelastic, but long run it is quite elastic. we've already seen it with the civic outselling the F-150. people also changed their habits.
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