Gas prices soon to be $3.00 / gallon

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Skoorb, didn't you just make a very good post yesterday about how the prices of commodities don't have momentum? (as momentum doesn't apply) Because you seem to be contradicting yourself here. The price of gas and oil is not going up, it has gone up. That it has gone up does not necessarily mean that it will continue going up.

High gas and oil prices does no one any good. It hurts the poor more than the rich (who can more easily afford it) and generally has a significant negative impact on the economy. IMO, gas prices have plateau'ed for now, might cool a little until Memorial Day, spike a bit again through the summer, then cool again after Labor Day. In other words, just a repeat of the same cycle we've been through every year for about as long as I can remember. You would think people would be used to this by now...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
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Originally posted by: chowmein
everyone lets all buy hybrids!
Why? Hybrids barely get better gas mileage than their non-hybrid equivalents, and add roughly $10k to the initial cost of the vehicle. ROI is almost impossible. AND the batteries are extremely toxic hazardous waste that require replacement every 10 years.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Mardeth
It was pretty funny to see some american being interviewed, bitchning about oil prices while its 5-6$ here :).
Well, they have no leg to stand on bitching about it while they drive a vehicle that gets 17 mpg, but to their defense people in Europe typically have much less need for driving a vast number of miles. The geography in the US is such that many of us rely on cars to a greater extent, and it's unavoidable, so at $2/gallon many americans will spend more on gas than fins at $6/gallon.

The geography in the US is such that many of us rely on cars to a greater extent, and it's unavoidable

All the more reason to get and drive Economical vehicles that get could get 40 mpg but no, rich lard a$$ Americans have to make and drive monster SUVs that get 12 mpg or less. Way to go :thumbsup:
True, and that's why I am personally thrilled as gas prices go up and people driving urban tanks whine about them. It's like a person hitting themselves with a stick whining about the nails stuck to the end of it. Stop hitting yourself and the nails don't matter quite as much!
Skoorb, didn't you just make a very good post yesterday about how the prices of commodities don't have momentum? (as momentum doesn't apply) Because you seem to be contradicting yourself here. The price of gas and oil is not going up, it has gone up. That it has gone up does not necessarily mean that it will continue going up.
Yes, it's true. Admittedly there is some hyperbole in all my threads about oil. In truth I'm torn about a $3/gallon. I can't pretend there wouldn't be real benefits to teaching people about finite resources and what it means to expend them, but it would negatively affect the economy, though I don't know how much.

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: chowmein
everyone lets all buy hybrids!
Why? Hybrids barely get better gas mileage than their non-hybrid equivalents, and add roughly $10k to the initial cost of the vehicle. ROI is almost impossible. AND the batteries are extremely toxic hazardous waste that require replacement every 10 years.
Yeah hybrids basically still suck right now from a costs point of view. If we really cared enough we'd be driving diesels, or cars that don't move 3800 lbs of weight to 60 miles per hour in six seconds.

 

Boze

Senior member
Dec 20, 2004
634
14
91
Originally posted by: blahblah99
Don't worry, in 20 years we won't even have to worry about gas prices anymore.. cause there won't be any oil left!

There's a ton of oil left ... it just won't be $3 a gallon in 2025.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
This just in: Gas is just about as cheap as it has ever been when you adjust for inflation...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: chowmein
everyone lets all buy hybrids!
Why? Hybrids barely get better gas mileage than their non-hybrid equivalents, and add roughly $10k to the initial cost of the vehicle. ROI is almost impossible. AND the batteries are extremely toxic hazardous waste that require replacement every 10 years.
Yeah hybrids basically still suck right now from a costs point of view. If we really cared enough we'd be driving diesels, or cars that don't move 3800 lbs of weight to 60 miles per hour in six seconds.
Hydrogen- and biodiesel-powered ICE's are the future as far as I'm concerned. Renewable less-polluting fuels using cost-effective existing technologies. IMO we should be pushing hard for these real alternatives instead of the expensive band-aid fix that is hybrid technology (at this time). Hybrids of the future will be great, especially when hydrogen fuel cell and vastly improved battery technologies finally mature, but that's a ways down the road.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Wow, so this is really going to cut into your budget for taking girls out and trying to hold their hand?
 

tontod

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
3,244
0
71
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: DaWhim
Originally posted by: slick230
Yeah, the gas for my aircraft carrier is going to really put a dent in my wallet.

(since the last 2 posts seem to be about one-upmanship)

sound dumb, they are powered by nuclear.

edit: oh wait, i am not sure. :p

All the carriers currently active in the US fleet are (the last oil feuled one was decomissioned in the last 2 years).


Not quite, the USS Kitty Hawk stationed in Japan is powered by diesel, the USS Kennedy is also the same, though I've been reading that they might mothball the USS Kennedy.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: tontod
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: DaWhim
Originally posted by: slick230
Yeah, the gas for my aircraft carrier is going to really put a dent in my wallet.

(since the last 2 posts seem to be about one-upmanship)

sound dumb, they are powered by nuclear.

edit: oh wait, i am not sure. :p

All the carriers currently active in the US fleet are (the last oil feuled one was decomissioned in the last 2 years).


Not quite, the USS Kitty Hawk stationed in Japan is powered by diesel, the USS Kennedy is also the same, though I've been reading that they might mothball the USS Kennedy.
In any case their escorts still rely on diesel!

 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
In 1959 - 1969 the Chevy Impala was the best selling car in America. It got about 14MPG and nobody complained about that, even though they were paying the equivilent of $2.00 per gallon, and an even bigger chunk of their monthy budget!

SKY-HIGH GAS PRICES? NOT REALLY
  • Sure, the $2.03 being charged at the pump today *seems* high. But in actual financial terms, it's a lot less onerous than the $1.25 a gallon motorists were paying in 1980 -- a whopping $2.80 when translated into 2004 dollars. (Adjusted the other way, today's $2.03 pump price is equal to less than 90 cents in 1980 dollars.) When it comes to historical price comparisons, nominal dollar amounts signify little. It is the inflation-adjusted price that tells you whether the true cost of a product has increased, decreased, or stayed the same.

    There's also the question of affordability. Adjusted for inflation, gasoline prices today are roughly where they were in the 1950s -- but per-capita real income then was no more than half of what it is today. Which means that for a typical driver 50 years ago, gasoline was really twice as expensive -- in terms of the bite it took out of his budget -- as it is now. Only in the shallow sense of nominal pump price is gasoline today "setting record after record." In reality, it is much cheaper than it used to be.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
In 1959 - 1969 the Chevy Impala was the best selling car in America. It got about 14MPG and nobody complained about that, even though they were paying the equivilent of $2.00 per gallon, and an even bigger chunk of their monthy budget!

SKY-HIGH GAS PRICES? NOT REALLY
  • Sure, the $2.03 being charged at the pump today *seems* high. But in actual financial terms, it's a lot less onerous than the $1.25 a gallon motorists were paying in 1980 -- a whopping $2.80 when translated into 2004 dollars. (Adjusted the other way, today's $2.03 pump price is equal to less than 90 cents in 1980 dollars.) When it comes to historical price comparisons, nominal dollar amounts signify little. It is the inflation-adjusted price that tells you whether the true cost of a product has increased, decreased, or stayed the same.

    There's also the question of affordability. Adjusted for inflation, gasoline prices today are roughly where they were in the 1950s -- but per-capita real income then was no more than half of what it is today. Which means that for a typical driver 50 years ago, gasoline was really twice as expensive -- in terms of the bite it took out of his budget -- as it is now. Only in the shallow sense of nominal pump price is gasoline today "setting record after record." In reality, it is much cheaper than it used to be.

pssst... never let the facts get in the way of a good rant!
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: Ornery
In 1959 - 1969 the Chevy Impala was the best selling car in America. It got about 14MPG and nobody complained about that, even though they were paying the equivilent of $2.00 per gallon, and an even bigger chunk of their monthy budget!

SKY-HIGH GAS PRICES? NOT REALLY
  • Sure, the $2.03 being charged at the pump today *seems* high. But in actual financial terms, it's a lot less onerous than the $1.25 a gallon motorists were paying in 1980 -- a whopping $2.80 when translated into 2004 dollars. (Adjusted the other way, today's $2.03 pump price is equal to less than 90 cents in 1980 dollars.) When it comes to historical price comparisons, nominal dollar amounts signify little. It is the inflation-adjusted price that tells you whether the true cost of a product has increased, decreased, or stayed the same.

    There's also the question of affordability. Adjusted for inflation, gasoline prices today are roughly where they were in the 1950s -- but per-capita real income then was no more than half of what it is today. Which means that for a typical driver 50 years ago, gasoline was really twice as expensive -- in terms of the bite it took out of his budget -- as it is now. Only in the shallow sense of nominal pump price is gasoline today "setting record after record." In reality, it is much cheaper than it used to be.
pssst... never let the facts get in the way of a good rant!
Well... that informative article leaves out some key points. It lies the best way possible, i.e. it tells nothing but the truth while leaving key parts of the truth out. Like how the relative cost of housing and cars has gone way up since the 50s, taxes are considerably higher, there are new expenses like cable TV, etc., and people have a greater expectation of more disposable income now than then.
There is a reason why a man could support his entire family on one income then, and it generally takes a dual-income to get by now.

If the relative cost of a regular expenditure goes down, people don't usually save that money or have it ready it case that cost goes back up. Instead, they shift the extra into a new regular expenditure, like credit card bills, or buy a bigger house, upgrade their cable package, eact out more often, whatever. Just where Americans spend their money is constantly shifting, and getting larger pieces of that action is a big part of marketing.
In most major urban areas, a key factor is that many people are spending more than 50% of their pre-tax income on their mortgage payments, something that NO bank would have allowed in the 50s.

Lastly, here's the most important reason why American have the right to bitch about recently risen gas prices: because it's all fake. Once again, speculative oil futures traders have taken over the market and jacked up the price of oil like a dot-com stock. There's no supply issue, no demand problem, and there's plenty of oil on the market with adequate refining capacity. So you and Ornery may enjoy justifying getting scammed, but I do not.
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
0
0
In America, consumers now spend an average of $1.94 for a gallon for regular fuel. In Britain, that price is $5.66, making it some of the world's most expensive gas.

For years, British governments have repeatedly raised gas taxes, often over the rate of inflation, with several goals in mind: reducing the number of drivers, improving the environment and raising revenue.

Today, about 75 percent of the price at the pump is tax, compared to an average of about 22 percent in the United States in August. In Britain, where new cars are often expensive, drivers also must pay a heavy sales tax when they buy one, and an annual fee for a driver's permit. On top of that, insurance for drivers is mandatory.

And you Britons are happy?
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
... the relative cost of housing and cars has gone way up since the 50s, taxes are considerably higher, there are new expenses like cable TV, etc., and people have a greater expectation of more disposable income now than then.

Therefore real gasoline prices should decline to compensate for our new spending habits? :roll:


...here's the most important reason why American have the right to bitch about recently risen gas prices: because it's all fake. Once again, speculative oil futures traders have taken over the market and jacked up the price of oil like a dot-com stock. There's no supply issue, no demand problem, and there's plenty of oil on the market with adequate refining capacity. So you and Ornery may enjoy justifying getting scammed, but I do not.

:roll:

How do YOU suggest the price for oil and gasoline be set, and by whom?
 

joecool

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2001
2,934
2
81
personally i wish gas would go to $4/gallon+. it'd hurt filling up (i've got a long commute) but maybe it'd finally get us energy crazy americans in the mood to save ...
 

Noirish

Diamond Member
May 2, 2000
3,959
0
0
With China predicted to use at least 50% of the world petroleum production, I won't be surprised if we think $3 is cheap in a couple years. Maybe it'll keep more people off the road and make the environment better.
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
0
0
Originally posted by: Noirish
With China predicted to use at least 50% of the world petroleum production, I won't be surprised if we think $3 is cheap in a couple years. Maybe it'll keep more people off the road and make the environment better.

This post makes no sense.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Ornery
Therefore real gasoline prices should decline to compensate for our new spending habits? :roll:
Of course not. Way to miss the point. You bring up the relative price of gas compared to inflation, I merely point out how changing spending habits can still make relatively low gas prices still sting.
And let's not forget that the all-time highpoint for gas prices in 1982 plunged this country into a severe recession, eh? So if all you're pointing out is that gas prices now are low compared to then, well... thank God.

How do YOU suggest the price for oil and gasoline be set, and by whom?
By the free market of course, and not by the system of collusion we have now.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Gas prices are the same as they were in the fifties & sixties, let alone eighties! And, at that time, the most popular car in the country only got about 14MPG, yet now we're supposed to buy tiny death-mobiles in order to save money on fuel! :roll:

I'd STILL like to know how YOU propose oil & gas be priced and distributed. Got some kind of new laws and/or wars in mind, or what?