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Gas giant planetary fact:
- Thread starter sao123
- Start date
sao123
Lifer
I'm not stupid...I never claimed that the scientific community missed these thing.
because unless you have a reading problem...let me requote it for you...
I did not miss the jupiter impact crash a few years ago. I have been an avid astonomer since 9th grade and having taken 3 to 4 solid astronomy/solar system classes and reading several other supposedly in depth books in college, this particular fact was never presented to me. Somehow through all my studying, this fact just seems to have escaped me.
sao123
Lifer
Source:
Universe, the definitive visual guide. Martin Rees. ISBN 0-7566-1364-7
Jupiter is composed of 89.8% hydrogen, 10.1% helium, and .1% of trace methane and ammonia. Jupiters atmosphere is gaseous hydrogen and helium at a temperature of
-166F, 4350 miles thick. At that point the temperature has risen to 3600F and a surface of liquid hydrogen is found. At 8700 miles deep (including the 4350 of atmosphere) the temperature is now 9000F, the hydrogen has compacted to a molten metallic state. Finally about 37,260 miles deep is found a solid hydrogen metallic core. Unknown temperature.
Saturn has a similar makeup of about 96.5% hydrogen and 3.5% helium. Atmosphere, outer layer of liquid hydrogen, inner molten metallic hydrogen, and a solid core. Saturn is the least dense of all the gas giants and the entire planet could float on an ocean of water.
Uranus is composed of 82.5% hydrogen, 15.2% helium, and 2.3% methane and ammonia. Hydrogen and helium atmosphere. Liquid methan and ammonia surface.
Inner layer of ammonia and methane ices. Solid ice core.
Neptune is composed of 79% hydrogen, 18% helium, and 3% methane and ammonia.
Hydrogen helium and methane atmosphere. Water, methane and ammonia surface (some liquid some ice). The only planet with a potential ice surface. Ice and rock core.
Uranus and Neptune have no molten inner layers like jupiter and saturn, they are liquid and ices of ammonia and methane.
Given that the densities of liquid ammonia and methat are about 1/2 of liquid water, I doubt we have anything that would float on these planets. Except maybe a styrofoam ball.
RaphaelVinceti
Member
Imagine if we where able to efficently harvest the hydrogen on those planets and get it back to earth? No more need for Oil. But, the costs of doing this would be incredible, unless somehow they can come up with a nano structure that could harvest it and pump it to a station near the moon, eliminating the need for shuttle flights back and forth between the planets and Earth, but such a constructon effort would take hundreds of years, and would not be feasible. (unfortunatly.)
CycloWizard
Lifer
Yes, though we'd have to give it the same fuel to get there.
It depends on the pressure and concentration of the hydrogen, as well as the presence of a combustion initiator (e.g. flame, spark, etc.). The UFL (upper flammability limit) of hydrogen is around 36% by volume if memory serves. Thus, if kept in sufficiently high concentration, it wouldn't be readily flammable. The value I cite is probably for room temperature and would be different at very high temperatures, but if you don't give it anything to react with, it can't burn, regardless of temperature. So, if you can store pure hydrogen, then you can be sure it won't burn. Just make sure you don't have any way for oxygen to sneak in there or you could be in for a nasty surprise. 😛
RaphaelVinceti
Member
Yeah, that would probably work, although greating the wormhole/getting out of the earths atmosphere would be problematic on the expenses. maybe if they did a space station that was pretty much a big holding tank with pump, and some sort of tubing to an earth side station, that might work, because then a shuttle could just go back and forth between whichever planet and the station, through the wormhole, and, if it where hydrogen powered, it could be up there almost indefinatly.
Simple progression of the state of matter...
The atmosphere is light gas, the 'mantle' is liquid, the 'outer core' is solid and the true core is probably a plasma. Simply a function of the amount of compression on the materials that make the planet.
The gas giants are quite intersting subjects however. Amazing at how large they are, and even more amazing that Jupiter is damn near a Brown Dwarf - if only it was a bit larger and has a bit more Hydrogen. I have always liked the idea that the giants have systems of their own. A small labratory for the Solar System that we can watch in action.
The atmosphere is light gas, the 'mantle' is liquid, the 'outer core' is solid and the true core is probably a plasma. Simply a function of the amount of compression on the materials that make the planet.
The gas giants are quite intersting subjects however. Amazing at how large they are, and even more amazing that Jupiter is damn near a Brown Dwarf - if only it was a bit larger and has a bit more Hydrogen. I have always liked the idea that the giants have systems of their own. A small labratory for the Solar System that we can watch in action.
MetalStorm
Member
What's wrong with all the Hydrogen on Earth??? Perhaps you don't know this, but water, or H2O as it's known happens to be a very good source of Hydrogen. Strange that!
Also someone's comment about "I doubt we have anything that would float on these planets. Except maybe a styrofoam ball." that is rediculous. For something to float, the object has to displace an amount of liquid equal to the weight of the object. So by knowing the relative density of liquid ammonia and methane, which has been quoted at about 0.5 times that of water, ships on earth would sit roughly twice as low in the liquid.
imported_BigT383
Junior Member
The problem with just bringing a boat would be that you're crushed way before you get to the liquid surface... All of that gas weighs a lot, especially on a planet as massive as Jupiter.
As for the burning: I don't think you would need a spark or anything for ignition, since 3600 degrees is probably (I'm guessing) way over the flashpoint of hydrogen, since hydrogen is much more reactive than paper, and paper's flashpoint is 451 degrees (Thanks, Ray Bradbury!). The biggest reason that Jupiter isn't on fire is that there's no oxidizer- with a makeup of 89.8% hydrogen, 10.1% helium, and .1% of trace methane and ammonia, I see 89.9% fuel and 10.1% nonreactants. That means no oxygen. No oxidizer=no fire. Also, Jupiter isn't massive enough to create the pressures in it's core to support the nuclear "fire" of fusion. That's why it's not a star.
There are really only 2 ways to get hydrogen on earth at least that I know of. One is to get it from reactions involving fossile fuels, which doesn't really help in solving the oil problem. The other, as was mentioned, is to get it from water. The problem with this is that it's locked up in a chemical bond with oxygen. To break the bond, you need energy- electricity (Inversely, Fuel cells capture the energy given off by putting the hydrogen and oxygen back together). And right now, most of that electricity comes from fossile fuels. So a conversion to solar/hydro/wind/nuclear power is really the only way get hydrogen on earth without using fossile fuels.
As for the burning: I don't think you would need a spark or anything for ignition, since 3600 degrees is probably (I'm guessing) way over the flashpoint of hydrogen, since hydrogen is much more reactive than paper, and paper's flashpoint is 451 degrees (Thanks, Ray Bradbury!). The biggest reason that Jupiter isn't on fire is that there's no oxidizer- with a makeup of 89.8% hydrogen, 10.1% helium, and .1% of trace methane and ammonia, I see 89.9% fuel and 10.1% nonreactants. That means no oxygen. No oxidizer=no fire. Also, Jupiter isn't massive enough to create the pressures in it's core to support the nuclear "fire" of fusion. That's why it's not a star.
There are really only 2 ways to get hydrogen on earth at least that I know of. One is to get it from reactions involving fossile fuels, which doesn't really help in solving the oil problem. The other, as was mentioned, is to get it from water. The problem with this is that it's locked up in a chemical bond with oxygen. To break the bond, you need energy- electricity (Inversely, Fuel cells capture the energy given off by putting the hydrogen and oxygen back together). And right now, most of that electricity comes from fossile fuels. So a conversion to solar/hydro/wind/nuclear power is really the only way get hydrogen on earth without using fossile fuels.
MetalStorm
Member
Yes, at the moment electrolysis is used to gain hydrogen from water, however when fusion is practicle, that will no longer be a problem at all. That's what I'm waiting for anyway!
Also the density of the liquid surface can be anything it wants, the fact is that you will easily be able to float on it, as I've said before you just have to displace the same amount of liquid as your weight and there you go, you float.
Also the density of the liquid surface can be anything it wants, the fact is that you will easily be able to float on it, as I've said before you just have to displace the same amount of liquid as your weight and there you go, you float.
MetalStorm
Member
A conventional "earth boat" would not float, that's true, but I'm sure it can't be too hard to design something that would float.
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