"Gang of Ten" Senators throws kitchen sink at energy crisis

[Vic]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Even Californians from Queen Nancy's state want to drill offshore.

The Democrats continue to remain out of touch with America.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...1/MNSH122TA3.DTL&tsp=1

A new CNN/Opinion Research poll released this week found that 69 percent of Americans favor more offshore drilling, while 30 percent oppose it.

Yes, because Bush and the Republicans are so popular. :roll:

Your 26 trolls so far don't add to the discussion here. Maybe if you learned how to present arguments without making sweeping overgeneralizations, false statements, or otherwise being a partisan ass.

"Queen Nancy's" constituency consists -- in total -- of about 3/4's of the city of San Francisco, not the entire state of California. That's who she answers to. This is how representative democracy works.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The whole off shore drilling thing is a fairly simple issue. The democrats wants to oil companies to drill on the 88 million acres of leases they already have
before they lease simply more land for the oil companies to sit on and not drill on.

My God, how many times will that BS get repeated? If the companies are not drilling on the land for which they hold lease rights, it's because there is no oil there (or not enough to be profitably gotten). You're delusional if you believe companies like Exxon would rather deal with tyrants and crazy people like Chavez when there's plenty of oil easily available on these leased lands. The fact that they are not means it's not feasible/profitable to do.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poker Guy, you have some inordinate faith in free markets and the honesty of oil companies.

The higher the price of oil, the more money that sticks to their hands. And you never notice, any time the supply moderates, oil companies find it necessary to do maintenance or claim supply problems.

And maybe you think the power crisis, the S&L bail out, Enron, and the recent lending crisis just happen randomly, but the root cause is always corporate corruption and conspiracy.

Poker Guy, you are the most gullible guy on the planet. Maybe you favor spending your taxpayer bucks on buying a Brooklin Bridge bill of good, but oh no you don't with my taxpayer bucks.

In terms of your argument on drilling, they bid on these leases years ago and then just let them sit as prices rise. In some few cases, there is now some evidence that a few of those lease are not that as good as they initially appeared, but most of them have not even had a single test well sunk, had any exploratory work done, and there is simply no evidence for your claim. If the damn oil companies won't drill, lease those claims to some one who will drill now. Drill on the lease or lose the lease is the proper answer and to do otherwise simply invites the oil companies to sit on them forever as they lock up the supply.

Don't forget about the crapton of land that is leased to insure a competitor doesn't stick its straw into their drink. Do you really want the oil companies to be forced to sink 100 wells into a field to protect their investment when 5 wells would have worked just as well?

 

[spidey07]

We need this kind of uproar. Is it political posturing by both sides? Absolutely and I won't deny that.

But something needs to be done and taxation isn't it. Repubs are pushing and some dems are joining the fight and from what I can tell the dems joining are those with a vested interest via their constituents/state. So if your rep/senators was/were part or if they were not of this whether you agree or disagree let them know. (LOL! Try diagramming THAT sentence.)

Eitherway be a part of your representative gubment. And just to give you guys some meat to chew I'm going to see what I can do to volunteer for McConnell, serious.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Even Californians from Queen Nancy's state want to drill offshore.

The Democrats continue to remain out of touch with America.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...1/MNSH122TA3.DTL&tsp=1

A new CNN/Opinion Research poll released this week found that 69 percent of Americans favor more offshore drilling, while 30 percent oppose it.

Wow talk about leaping to a conclusion. Did you even read the article you linked? Nowhere in that article did it mention that people in California are in mass favoring off shore drilling.

 

[quest55720]

I love the more attention this gets the better. I hope the republicans scream at the top of their lungs every day till election day. Maybe then Obama/Pelosi/Reid will cave in to more domestic drilling as part of a new energy plan for this country.

 

[Lemon law]

Yes, we will have to do some off shore drilling, but this crap is nothing but GOP grandstanding, revisionist history, and thus counter productive.

Any new leases must require the lease holder drills on the lease rather than sitting on it. Something the GOP will not accept.

And then actual production is four years away.

Short term, getting Iraq past the pitiful production they now have would pop the oil bubble almost immediately. Iraq was all about the oil, just not in the way we thought it was.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
While I agree that Pelosi and Reid are complete idiots and can barely lead themselves to the lav....

Republicans are desperate and desperate times call for desperate measures.

1. Measures like dictating how businesses should be run (Must raise rate of oil independent vehicles!).
2. Measures like the "fear tactic" (Gas will be $10 and the Ds won't do anything!)
3. Measures like the message of hope (We can be oil free if we allow companies to drill for more oil!?).
4. Measures like pretending to want to work tirelessly no matter what (Just like they did when they had control of Congress...oh wait)
5. Measures like embracing the environmentalists (Must raise CAFE standards!)

Let's look at these brash newfound beliefs and how they blend with recent legislative history, shall we?

1. What happened to the free market will dictate the products that we use?
2. Why oppose the speculation legislation introduced recently if they are wanting something that would be in immediate impact on prices?
3. Why are they all of a sudden concerned with energy policy that can be viewed as alternative when they have only been for oil for decades?
4. Why pretend to actually want to stat until all things are settled now that it is nearing an election cycle when they were all to willing to take breaks the past 12 months? Now that oil prices have dropped 16% over the last 2 weeks and prices are stabilized (albeit still insane) are they wanting to do something instead of in the middle of the actual run up to these prices?
5. Why should we raise CAFE standards when we can give SUV purchasers a tax break?

This is what I don't get. Cutting down on rampant speculation will likely have the greatest effect on oil prices in the short term. I don't really care about offshore drilling, let the oil companies go at it (easy for me to say I guess, since I live in the middle of the US), but I'm not expecting it to have any immediate impact of prices. They say that committing to drill now would send a message to speculators, causing the price to decrease. Well here's an idea, if we can agree speculative investment is the issue, how about we put a stop to that.

I just fear all this drilling BS is going to lose the Dems the election, and we'll be stuck with four more years of Republican leadership.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I just fear all this drilling BS is going to lose the Dems the election, and we'll be stuck with four more years of Republican leadership.

I think you underestimate how cunning of a politician Obama is.

 

[frostedflakes]

Touché, Mr. Obama.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I just fear all this drilling BS is going to lose the Dems the election, and we'll be stuck with four more years of Republican leadership.

I think you underestimate how cunning of a politician Obama is.

Cunning? You mean he is like every other politician caves under public pressure. This is a good first step. Now I hope the public and republicans put even more pressure to get Obama to switch to a complete lifting of the drilling bans.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I just fear all this drilling BS is going to lose the Dems the election, and we'll be stuck with four more years of Republican leadership.

I think you underestimate how cunning of a politician Obama is.

Bwahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah

Flip-Flop.

He's done.

Obama - "I run on a platform of hope, change and being a racist piece of crap"
Obama - "My platform is taxing the evil oil companies, hope and change"
Obama - wait? what? you mean America doesn't like my racism? "These are not the people I once knew"
Obama - "So maybe my stance on energy was wrong, but windfall profit taxes to give to poor families!"
Obama - wait? what? They don't like that either?
Obama - "I fully support whatever it is I support"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I just fear all this drilling BS is going to lose the Dems the election, and we'll be stuck with four more years of Republican leadership.

I think you underestimate how cunning of a politician Obama is.

Bwahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah

Flip-Flop.

He's done.

Obama - "I run on a platform of hope, change and being a racist piece of crap"
Obama - "My platform is taxing the evil oil companies, hope and change"
Obama - wait? what? you mean America doesn't like my racism? "These are not the people I once knew"
Obama - "So maybe my stance on energy was wrong, but windfall profit taxes to give to poor families!"
Obama - wait? what? They don't like that either?
Obama - "I fully support whatever it is I support"

Yeah, like McCain didn't do a complete 180 on oil drilling just last month. Oh... did you just conveniently put that out of your mind?

:roll:

And unless you can link to a single credible instance of Obama making a racist statement, then I'm gonna say that you are the lying racist piece of shit, no joke. You're way over-the-line here even for a typical heated political discussion on the internet.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I just fear all this drilling BS is going to lose the Dems the election, and we'll be stuck with four more years of Republican leadership.

I think you underestimate how cunning of a politician Obama is.

Bwahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah

Flip-Flop.

He's done.

Obama - "I run on a platform of hope, change and being a racist piece of crap"
Obama - "My platform is taxing the evil oil companies, hope and change"
Obama - wait? what? you mean America doesn't like my racism? "These are not the people I once knew"
Obama - "So maybe my stance on energy was wrong, but windfall profit taxes to give to poor families!"
Obama - wait? what? They don't like that either?
Obama - "I fully support whatever it is I support"

Yeah, like McCain didn't do a complete 180 on oil drilling just last month. Oh... did you just conveniently put that out of your mind?

:roll:

And unless you can link to a single credible instance of Obama making a racist statement, then I'm gonna say that you are the lying racist piece of shit, no joke. You're way over-the-line here even for a typical heated political discussion on the internet.

I think there's a difference... McCain came out and said why he changed his position with the changing price of gas. Obama and the democrats have been denouncing drilling all summer.

now he's going to switch positions and claim that McCain wasn't advocating a comprehensive energy plan?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I think there's a difference... McCain came out and said why he changed his position with the changing price of gas. Obama and the democrats have been denouncing drilling all summer.

now he's going to switch positions and claim that McCain wasn't advocating a comprehensive energy plan?

I gotta admit, I like Obama's style. Shrewd and on the edge. He moves in when he knows he can get a deal cut.

McCain OTOH has no style except the propaganda backing him. He changed his position because the oil companies threw tons of money at him, not because of the rising gas prices.

Look, anyone thinking the oil companies have this sudden urgency to expand drilling now for the good of the country needs to have their head examined. The whole reason the drilling ban existed in the first place was to keep their prices propped up at a time when oil was under $20/bbl (think how DeBeers keeps a portion of its diamonds off-market, same thing). Now what the oil companies want is to use public sentiment against recent high gas prices in order to get these drilling rights for a bargain. Same shit, different day, usual only-my-brand-of-govt-can-save-the-country rhetoric.

 

[nageov3t]

what style? it seems more like changing with opinion polls -- but conveniently changing too late to actually have done anything about it before capital hill goes on holiday all while Pelosi won't even allow a debate on the issue.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Vic
Am I reading this right? Republicans in Congress are right now calling for laws mandating fuel economy standards and a high percentage of vehicles to run on alternative fuels within 20 years? After all these many years of blocking identical such proposals, they're grandstanding this issue NOW? And you're actually surprised that the Dem leadership turned the lights out on them? Do you have amnesia or something?

So someone is actually trying to do something but the Dems want to say screw you and screw Americans too. Yup, how about they all work for the common good of the people, and not their egos.

:roll: Just because you're a partisan hack doesn't mean everyone else is.

You seem to forget that part where nothing has to be done, as the ban will expire on its own. There's also the legitimate point that increasing oil dependency is not in the common good of the people.

But you took your party's bait nicely.

I guess that depends on which world we want to live in. The lefts utopia where oil isnt used and we all drive electric cars. Or reality where oil will be a basis of our economy for decades to come. Now being a market driven man you self proclaim. How can you justify artifically curtailing supply?

 

[BarneyFife]

Oil will be a basis for our economy in 50 years if we just back and pick our ass like we have been doing for the last 30 years. I don't even view oil as a republican vs democrat thing. The goal is to get away from as much oil as possible and find alternatives.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: spidey07
He's done.

Hahahahahaha.

Obama has a lock on the election. Sidney is busy running a Dole-esque reactionary campaign, desperately trying to get free press coverage in Obama's shadow. What a sad end to an old man's uneventful political career.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: spidey07
He's done.

Hahahahahaha.

Obama has a lock on the election. Sidney is busy running a Dole-esque reactionary campaign, desperately trying to get free press coverage in Obama's shadow. What a sad end to an old man's uneventful political career.

are you dumb or just blinded by partisanship?

you may not agree with his policies, but uneventful? :laugh: when McCain loses, I'm sure he'll be crying all the way back to being the most influential republican senator.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: loki8481
I think there's a difference... McCain came out and said why he changed his position with the changing price of gas. Obama and the democrats have been denouncing drilling all summer.

now he's going to switch positions and claim that McCain wasn't advocating a comprehensive energy plan?

I gotta admit, I like Obama's style. Shrewd and on the edge. He moves in when he knows he can get a deal cut.

McCain OTOH has no style except the propaganda backing him. He changed his position because the oil companies threw tons of money at him, not because of the rising gas prices.

Look, anyone thinking the oil companies have this sudden urgency to expand drilling now for the good of the country needs to have their head examined. The whole reason the drilling ban existed in the first place was to keep their prices propped up at a time when oil was under $20/bbl (think how DeBeers keeps a portion of its diamonds off-market, same thing). Now what the oil companies want is to use public sentiment against recent high gas prices in order to get these drilling rights for a bargain. Same shit, different day, usual only-my-brand-of-govt-can-save-the-country rhetoric.

Do you think they would made any money developing off shore oil for $20/barrel or less?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I guess that depends on which world we want to live in. The lefts utopia where oil isnt used and we all drive electric cars. Or reality where oil will be a basis of our economy for decades to come. Now being a market driven man you self proclaim. How can you justify artifically curtailing supply?

Suppose you're in the prime of life with a ton of money in the bank... do you retire now and live off your past capital, or do you keep working and make more?

I am market driven. It's just that what you call 'supply' other people think of as capital. Drill all you want, I just don't want to see it squandered. In this context, I see Obama fighting for concessions for the public, while McCain is playing the corrupt stooge selling us down river for a ticket to the White House.

Because, rest assured, there will NEVER be a time when oil isn't used. Even when we're all driving electric cars (which BTW have the potential to make gas and diesel look like steam engines), we'll still be using a huge amount of oil for the rest of our consumption. Just look around you and tell me what isn't made out of/with oil. And should it ever all be gone, we'll regret we burned it all. But hey, no big deal if it's our great grandchildren who have to bear that burden, right?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Genx87
I guess that depends on which world we want to live in. The lefts utopia where oil isnt used and we all drive electric cars. Or reality where oil will be a basis of our economy for decades to come. Now being a market driven man you self proclaim. How can you justify artifically curtailing supply?

Suppose you're in the prime of life with a ton of money in the bank... do you retire now and live off your past capital, or do you keep working and make more?

I am market driven. It's just that what you call 'supply' other people think of as capital. Drill all you want, I just don't want to see it squandered. In this context, I see Obama fighting for concessions for the public, while McCain is playing the corrupt stooge selling us down river for a ticket to the White House.

Because, rest assured, there will NEVER be a time when oil isn't used. Even when we're all driving electric cars (which BTW have the potential to make gas and diesel look like steam engines), we'll still be using a huge amount of oil for the rest of our consumption. Just look around you and tell me what isn't made out of/with oil. And should it ever all be gone, we'll regret we burned it all. But hey, no big deal if it's our great grandchildren who have to bear that burden, right?

When the oil age is over, there will still be plenty of oil left in the ground. Transport uses about 50% of the oil we pump out of the ground. When electric cars become practical, the world is going to have huge oil glut.

But as far as oil goes, it can be replaced wth other sources of hydrocarbons...

 

[spittledip]

When I heard about this, i assumed it was the Repubs putting on a show.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: loki8481
are you dumb or just blinded by partisanship?

you may not agree with his policies, but uneventful? :laugh: when McCain loses, I'm sure he'll be crying all the way back to being the most influential republican senator.

Is that like winning a gold medal at the Special Olympics?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: loki8481
are you dumb or just blinded by partisanship?

you may not agree with his policies, but uneventful? when McCain loses, I'm sure he'll be crying all the way back to being the most influential republican senator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually Loki8481, being the most influential republican Senator would be quite a promotion for McCain and I very much doubt it will happen.

McCain has never lead anything in his entire life, in the Senate he has recently been that guy from Arizona everyone had to humor, let him have his paper victory, and then gut it in committee. The GOP has and still belongs to GWB.

And if we regard this little bit of GOP gang of 10 grandstanding as the most energetic and charged up the Senile Elephant has been in recent months, we may all note McCain was no where in sight. Face the facts, if McCain loses the general election, he will retain his Senate seat, but is unlikely to lead anything in the GOP. The GOP may be stuck with McCain, but they seem to be working very hard to deny that fact. The only thing that fires up the GOP is their opposition to democrats and they seem to be hiding McCain in the attic.

Leadership out of McCain??????????????? What a complete laugh.