Gaming PC Feedback needed - $1000

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Last Build Spec Update (I PROMISE):
Processor: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz - $240
GPU: MSI Gaming N760 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 2GB - $260
RAM: Kingston XMP Blu Red Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) - $55
Power Supply: Rosewill Hive 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified - $60
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate ATX LGA1150 - $100
Case: Fractal Design Define B4 (Black Pearl) - $80
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB - $190
DVD/CD: LG 24X DVD Burner - GH24NS95 - OEM - $18
Monitor: Asus VH238H 23" - $150

Updated Build Specs (Again):
Processor: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz - $240
GPU: MSI Gaming N760 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 2GB - $260
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB - $73
Power Supply: XFX 750W 80 PLUS Bronze - $55
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 PRO3 LGA 1150 - $100
Case: Fractal Design Define B4 (Black Pearl) - $80
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB - $190
DVD/CD: LG 24X DVD Burner - GH24NS95 - OEM - $18
Monitor: Asus VH238H 23" - $150

Updated Build Specs:
Processor: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz - $240
GPU: MSI Gaming N770 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 770 2GB - $400
RAM: G.Skill Value 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 - $65
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 600W 80 Plus Bronze - $43
Motherboard: Asus B85-PLUS ATX LGA1150 - $100
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 300R Black Steel / Plastic - $60
SSD: Samsung 840 250GB - $190
DVD/CD: LG 24X DVD Burner - GH24NS95 - OEM - $18
Monitor: Dell U2312M 23" LED LCD Monitor - $205

Original Build Specs:
Processor: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz - $240
GPU: MSI Gaming N760 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 2GB - $260
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 - $135
Power Supply: CORSAIR TX Series CMPSU-650TX 650W - $80
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 PRO3 LGA 1150 - $115
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 300R Black Steel / Plastic - $60
SSD: Intel 520 Series Cherryville SSDSC2CW240A3K5 2.5" 240GB - $260
DVD/CD: LG 24X DVD Burner - GH24NS95 - OEM - $18
Monitor: Dell UltraSharp U2412M 24" LED LCD Monitor - $310

Most of the prices are from Newegg. I play Dota 2 mostly, but I may want to play other games in the future (BF4, Rome 2: Total War). I play Civ5 and SimCity occassionally.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
- Gaming
2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
- $1000ish
3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
- USA
5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
- No preference
6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
- No current parts
7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
- Default speeds
8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?
- 1900x1200
9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
- Within the next two months
X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?
- No software purchases needed

 

[mfenn]

Your choices look pretty good to me, but there's a couple changes that I'd make:

- RAM: You don't really need 16GB for gaming. An 8GB $55 kit like this Team DDR3 1600 is enough.
- SSD : That SSD is expensive and based on an old Sandforce design. I'd get a Samsung 840 250GB for $190.
- GPU: Good card, but fairly weak for this caliber of system. Take the extra $150 and bump it up to a GTX 770 like this MSI.

 

[Essence_of_War]

SSD : Yeah, right now even the Samsung 256 GB 840 Pro is cheaper than the one you've picked out . I'd go with the 250 GB 840.

Monitor: I'd pick it up on Amazon for $20 less.

RAM: If you need 16GB, $135 seems a touch steep, for a little less you can get Mushkin without the "heat spreaders". Or you can get AMD re-branded Patriot RAM for a little less even than that

GPU: At that price point and resolution, I'd say it's a toss-up between the 760 and the 7950. There is a dual-fan Sapphire 7950 for $250 you could consider also.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Bump for more feedback.

 

[Davidh373]

I entirely agree on the SSD. Samsung is king right now. I love my Intel drives, but I threw a Sammy in my gaming rig, and it flies just like my other computers with Intel. Honestly, IMO... If you just want to have fast boot and app launch times, as long as you get a reliable brand and good model it doesn't matter. You can look at benchmarks all day, but a current generation (insert reliable brand here) SSD will impress you greatly.

The RAM is "Gamer Branded" so it does come with a higher price tag. The heat spreaders will make zero difference, so nix them and save the money.

1920 x 1200 resolution is a tad large for a 760. It's pretty close to the previous gen's 660Ti. The 770 is a bit more expensive, but overall it will last a lot longer with the gaming you'll likely want to do. If you upgrade frequently, you may be ok with the 660Ti or 760.

The Dell Ultrasharp U2412 is a very nice monitor, especially for the price. I have two of it's modern replacement (U2413) and I'm in love with them.

Just so you know, if you don't have extra SATA cables around, your motherboard will likely come with two. You need 3 for the ODD, SSD, and HDD to plug in. If I didn't have my stash, I would have screwed up on this so many times before.

 

[Termie]

I agree strongly with everyone here on the SSD - the Intel is the wrong pick and the wrong price. The Samsung 840 Pro is superior in every possible way.

At the same time, I disagree strongly with everyone here on the video card. The OP is already over the $1000 budget he prefers for his system, and you're asking him to spend another $140 on a video card. That's just silly. The 760 is actually faster than the 7950, which everyone was recommending at $280 up until two weeks ago. Sure, the 770 (or 7970 GHz) is 20-25% faster, but I don't think it's a good match for this budget.

The GTX 760, and in particular the Asus or MSI versions, are absolutely ideal for this build.

 

[Davidh373]

The GTX 760, and in particular the Asus or MSI versions, are absolutely ideal for this build.

I can be down with a 760 for this build. I just don't want him to get 3-4 years down the road and still expect a card that performs to his current expectation. Unfortunately, we're in a time where what should be branded a $250 GPU is stamped with a $350 sticker. NVidia has rebranded pretty far up the chain with their latest line. With Next-Gen consoles coming out, the expectations for PC games looking better will rise. I'm not saying he shouldn't go with a 760. I'm just saying I don't want to set his expectations too high for "the future".

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

In 3-4 years I'll probably upgrade the build. But in the time before the would the 760 be good enough for my needs? Also, I could go cheaper on the monitor. I know I want a 24" but I'm open to a different monitor.

 

[Termie]

In 3-4 years I'll probably upgrade the build. But in the time before the would the 760 be good enough for my needs? Also, I could go cheaper on the monitor. I know I want a 24" but I'm open to a different monitor.

The 1920x1200 Dell is a great monitor, but if you're not picky about that extra resolution, you can save almost $100 going with the 23" 1920x1080 model, and pick up some gaming performance along the way (1920x1200 requires about 10% more GPU power than 1920x1080). Here's the U2312HM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824260055

And yes, the 760 is an excellent card for that resolution, but 3-4 years is a very long time in PC graphics, so I'd aim more for a 2-3 year cycle, at least for the video card.

 

[DSF]

Especially for a mid-range part like a 760, but even for high-end video cards, you can expect a graphics card to start really showing its age around the two year mark if you intend to play new 3D games as they come out.

Like Termie said, if you plan to keep the build as a whole for 3-4 years you'll probably have to replace the video card around 2 years. That's how I usually structure my builds.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

All of your feedback have been extremely helpful. I'm going to look up all these changes you're recommending and I'll be posting an updated part list later today so you can critique it some more. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Davidh373]

Especially for a mid-range part like a 760, but even for high-end video cards, you can expect a graphics card to start really showing its age around the two year mark if you intend to play new 3D games as they come out.

Like Termie said, if you plan to keep the build as a whole for 3-4 years you'll probably have to replace the video card around 2 years. That's how I usually structure my builds.

Every two to three years I swap my GPU, every four to six I do a chipset upgrade. In between I'll upgrade my peripherals and case as desired. I'd say that GPU will start requiring you to lower settings around the 2-year mark to get good framerates, but that's not something I can say for sure. Only time will tell.

 

[mfenn]

At the same time, I disagree strongly with everyone here on the video card. The OP is already over the $1000 budget he prefers for his system, and you're asking him to spend another $140 on a video card. That's just silly.

My other suggestions also saved him $150, so he isn't spending more overall. The OP didn't specifically ask for help getting under budget, so I assumed he was OK with the price as it was (~$60 over his max). Cutting fluff and adding gaming performance while staying price-neutral is always a good idea in my book.

The 760 is actually faster than the 7950, which everyone was recommending at $280 up until two weeks ago. Sure, the 770 (or 7970 GHz) is 20-25% faster, but I don't think it's a good match for this budget.

I'd say the GTX 760 and 7950 are pretty much equal. The 760 wins some games, but the 7950 wins others.

To your broader point, I don't think that a ~$250 card has any place in a ~$1000-1100 gaming rig, that only a quarter of the overall cost. Ideally, you should be spending somewhere north of 35% on GPUs. I'm able to fit a 7970-caliber card into the ~$1000 build every week without issue, so I don't see why the OP has to make do with less.

 

[Termie]

My other suggestions also saved him $150, so he isn't spending more overall. The OP didn't specifically ask for help getting under budget, so I assumed he was OK with the price as it was (~$60 over his max). Cutting fluff and adding gaming performance while staying price-neutral is always a good idea in my book.



I'd say the GTX 760 and 7950 are pretty much equal. The 760 wins some games, but the 7950 wins others.

To your broader point, I don't think that a ~$250 card has any place in a ~$1000-1100 gaming rig, that only a quarter of the overall cost. Ideally, you should be spending somewhere north of 35% on GPUs. I'm able to fit a 7970-caliber card into the ~$1000 build every week without issue, so I don't see why the OP has to make do with less.

Just a different approach - again, no one way to do it. Sure, I could suggest a build with a $400 graphics card that comes in at $1000, but in my opinion, you're sacrificing a lot to get there, and these are things you can't change just by turning down a couple settings in a game. I feel gamers too often say "I want to play at max settings" without really considering the system as a whole. You can't turn down any settings to make a system without an SSD feel like one with an SSD, you can't turn down any settings to make up for a clumsy case, and you can't turn down any settings to make a loud power supply quiet. But you can turn down a few settings to make a game play very smoothly with very little impact on graphical fidelity.

And going back to a theme mentioned in posts above, no matter what, that $200, $300, or $400 video card is going to feel old in two years, and you're probably going to replace it, but you're not going to want to replace the SSD, case, or power supply that frequently.

But as always, it's a good idea for the new builder to consider both options. By the way, your $1000 build is a good compromise, and really doesn't make any of the sacrifices above, although I wouldn't get that PowerColor HD7970 myself. I'd take a well-designed GTX670 with a silent cooler and a good warranty over it, even if it leaves a bit of performance on the table.

 

[DSF]

I agree with you to a point mfenn. The graphics card should almost always be a higher percentage of the spending than the CPU, but for me 40% of the total budget is unnecessary. If I felt like I could spend $400 on a graphics card in a $1000 system, my response would be to build a $900 system with a $300 graphics card. The minutiae of the graphics are just not worth $100 that could buy me 2-5 more games to play or whatever else.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

So I updated the PC specs, you can see them in the 1st post. Basically the changes I made were:

- Changed the RAM from 16GB to 8GB since I didn't think I needed 16GB right away and I can always upgrade that later.
- Changed the Power Supply to 600W since 650W was a little high and the cost difference was substantial.
- Changed the Motherboard based on some feedback on a friend who had problems with eh ASRock (not sure if the replacement I chose is a better motherboard).
- Changed the SSD based on feedback on the Intel SSD and it was cheaper.
- Changed the monitor since 1" less was $100 less and I figure I can get another one at a later time since I chose a better GPU.
- Changed the GPU for some extra "future-proofing" based on the saved money from above.

What do you guys think?

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

But as always, it's a good idea for the new builder to consider both options. By the way, your $1000 build is a good compromise, and really doesn't make any of the sacrifices above, although I wouldn't get that PowerColor HD7970 myself. I'd take a well-designed GTX670 with a silent cooler and a good warranty over it, even if it leaves a bit of performance on the table.

What's a well-designed GTX670 with a silent cooler and a good warranty look like? A GTX770 costs around $400 and a GTX670 gets pretty close to that.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Dual-fan coolers are noticeably quieter at the same workloads than blower-type coolers.

Here's a gigabyte for 335 shipped and an Asus for $345 shipped. Both are dual-fan, both have limited 3-year warranties.

 

[Termie]

What's a well-designed GTX670 with a silent cooler and a good warranty look like? A GTX770 costs around $400 and a GTX670 gets pretty close to that.

Looks like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121637

$55 less than a GTX 770 is not insignificant in a $1000 rig.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Looks like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121637

$55 less than a GTX 770 is not insignificant in a $1000 rig.

I like it.

How's my build motherboard wise?

 

[Termie]

I like it.

How's my build motherboard wise?

On second thought, I forgot that the Asus GTX670 had some reliability issues. Maybe it's best to go for the EVGA GTX 670 FTW, which is $340AR right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130787

Not quite as quiet, but an excellent card overall, due to being on a GTX680 board. My pick for a $1000 build, though, would still be a GTX760 for performance/dollar reasons.

Other than that, your build looks great. Is there a reason you don't want to overclock at all? If you're certain about that, then you could save a few dollars going with the 4670 rather than the 4670K. On the H87 board you picked, both will perform identically.

 

[lehtv]

I'm pretty sure it was only the TOP card that had reliability issues. The regular one is probably among best 670 out there.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

One more update later tonight. But in the meantime, some things I'm thinking about.

I'm thinking of switching motherboards. Don't know if I need the Z87 chipset.
Not sure on the psu as well since apparently the one I chose is not modular.
Might get a cheaper 23" monitor.
Might get a case that is quieter.

Any help on finding any of those would be appreciated.

 

[Termie]

One more update later tonight. But in the meantime, some things I'm thinking about.

I'm thinking of switching motherboards. Don't know if I need the Z87 chipset.
Not sure on the psu as well since apparently the one I chose is not modular.
Might get a cheaper 23" monitor.
Might get a case that is quieter.

Any help on finding any of those would be appreciated.

(1) You only need the Z87 chipset if you want to overclock. Do you?
(2) The CX600 PSU is cheap and functional, but you're right, it's not modular. It will cost about $20 to buy the CX600M, which is modular. Better yet, buy this XFX 750W modular unit right away for $55AR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817207023
(3) You can get a cheaper 23" monitor than the U2312M, but you can't get a cheaper, better monitor. If you really must cut costs there, then at least go for an IPS screen, like the one on this Acer: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009483
(4) Want a quieter case than the 300R without raising the cost? Go for the 200R.

Ultimately, I think some of the confusion here is what your actual budget is. Do you want to spend $1,500 total? Then don't pinch pennies on this stuff, certainly not the monitor. You're starting to say you want to cut costs, and yet you're way, way under budget.

By the way, can I just state the obvious and note that you don't have a hard drive in your current build? That 250GB SSD is going to fill very quickly...

 

[lehtv]

(1) You only need the Z87 chipset if you want to overclock. Do you?

Z87 is also required for SLI.

(2) The CX600 PSU is cheap and functional, but you're right, it's not modular. It will cost about $20 to buy the CX600M, which is modular. Better yet, buy this XFX 750W modular unit right away for $55AR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817207023

Uber nice find. I would combine this with a SLI capable board like Asus Z87-A. Otherwise the extra 200W capacity is just useless.

(3) You can get a cheaper 23" monitor than the U2312M, but you can't get a cheaper, better monitor. If you really must cut costs there, then at least go for an IPS screen, like the one on this Acer: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009483

I'd look into a high refresh rate monitor for gaming. Asus VG248QE is a nice deal at $243 AP. You can further enable that strobe backlight in 2D mode using the NVIDIA GPU, this will remove any motion blur.