Gaming HTPC configuration questions

[vineswingman]

I've been trying to narrow down a HTPC build, and I'm not sure which direction I want to go as of yet. My budget is around $650. It's primary use will be gaming.

I already have a wireless mouse (logitech anywhere mx) and keyboard (apple wireless). I also have a lian-li alumium case and a 1 TB sata hard drive.

I've been debating whether or not I want to use the lian li case, I don't think it looks terrible, but it's obviously a tower case and not designed for the living room. But using it saves me $100 I can use on system components.

My original build was:

Lian-Li PC-V351R Red Aluminum micro ATX Desktop Computer Case $100
ASUS M4A88T-M/USB3 AM3 880G Micro ATX Motherboard $95
EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 Superclocked 1GB $200
Cooler Master RS-500-PCAR-A3-U5 500W Power Supply $40
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition $145
2x G.Skill RipJaw DDR3 1600 4GB (8GB total) $100

However, as I started looking into things, I realized that 8GB of ram for a gaming machine is overkill (this machine will be plugged into my TV and almost never be used for multi-tasking). So I started to think where I could apply that extra $50? I could afford a 470 video card (or even a 295 GTX), however it seems anything going above the 460 is going to run significantly hotter and draw a lot more power.

(I refuse to use ATI, as my laptop has an ati 4650 mobility and causes nothing but problems with HDMI underscan- I'm always fighting it to get the picture to fill the screen, and apparently this is common with ATI cards.)

So, what about dual 460 GTXs?

I'm looking at:

i3-540 3.06GHz $105
2x EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GTX 460 $400 (-$40 in MIR)
G.SKILL 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600 $50
BIOSTAR T5 XE CFXX-SLI LGA $115
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready $80

and NewEgg.com has $85 in Mail-In-Rebates with these items... It puts me in just under $700.

Another option is to go with the first setup (single GPU) but with an i5-750 and a different mobo and powersupply instead of the AMD cpu and 8GB of ram, and upgrade to a second gtx 460 when games require it. Should an i5-750 and single gtx 460 let me play most games at 1080p with FSAA & AF for at least a year?

Not sure what's gonna give me the best bang for my buck. I wanna play in 1080p, so I know the dual GPUs will help. And, a dual core i3 worries me as I know games will soon be (and already are) using more than 2 cores.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

 

[Stoneburner]

I've set up a gaming HTPC. I keep tweaking it because heat is difficult to get rid of. Every Watt you save is a bonus I would go for the i3 and the 6850 or 6870. Crossfire or SLI should be avoided unless you have good air running around your rig. And since it's an HTPC, try to stick a cheap SSD in there at least.

 

[Vette73]

Get a 870 board if you are not using the onboard video.

Don't get a 470 card. Runs hotter and uses more power than a 460. Either get a 460 or a 5850. There is a 5850 for $180 ar and some 1gig 460's around $160-170 at newegg.com.

4gig will be plenty. I have 2 gig in my HTPC and works fine.

 

[Stoneburner]

Get a 870 board if you are not using the onboard video.

Don't get a 470 card. Runs hotter and uses more power than a 460. Either get a 460 or a 5850. There is a 5850 for $180 ar and some 1gig 460's around $160-170 at newegg.com.

4gig will be plenty. I have 2 gig in my HTPC and works fine.

I had dual 5770's and now i switched to a 6870. Subjectively and Objectively the 6870 is the best fit for a HTPC.

It would be nice to know where you will keep it. Mine is in a poorly ventilated cabinet so power draw is important. And I use an AMD x4 but if i had a redo I would have gone with intel instead.

 

[Gikaseixas]

i wouldn't use a SLI or CF setup because the extra card means more heat. Get a single GTX 460 or a 6850.

For cpu i would get dual core i5 and 4gb of memory is enough. Lets us know what did you end up deciding.

 

[manimal]

I actually use xfire on a couple of htpcs but they live either in closets or only spin up under heavy load. if they were being built today I would go single card but they were hand me downs from my main system so it doesnt really matter.

When it comes to noise I use 40 gig intel ssds as my os drives with caviar blacks as data and it works great.


In regards to ATI underscan you do realize its easy to set right?

Go down to display in CCC. click on the icon for the tv. then the overscan options show up. They used to live natively in CCC but they hid it under display options...

BTW I ONLY use ati cards for htpc because of lpcm and now bitstream audio via HDMI to my recievers who decode them easily. To each his own...

 

[biostud]

If you turn of your computer when not using it, idle power draw will not be your main concern. Often when you build a HTPC it's meant to be on 24/7, and then low power consumption is really important. I use my setup as a HTPC.

I would suggest a i5-750 + either a single GTX 460 or 6850

 

[Jhatfie]

I'd stay away from crossfire or SLI in a HTPC build as well. A HD5850/6850/GTX460 all can do a great job at 1080p resolutions while keeping power consumption, noise and heat under control.

4GB should be fine for a HTPC gaming rig.

I personally went with a X4 over a i3 as I also was worried about future games. The i3 will generally perform better in games that do not use more than 2 cores, but quads seem to really be the sweet spot now for newer games.

I have never had any issues with HDMI underscan as far as I have ever noticed and I have used several ATI cards on my HTPC setup, including onboard 4200, 4650, 5770 and now my 5850.

For cases I originally had a cube, but them moved to the Silverstone GD04B which offers pretty good cooling while integrating well with my other A/V components while allowing for good sized graphics cards like my 5850.

 

[tviceman]

The pro's and cons of gtx460 vs. hd6850/6870

gtx460's
--------
come in all sorts of variant overclocks that are faster or slower than both hd6850 and up to as fast as an hd6870
Right now they are least expensive solution
generally do not get as hot as the hd6850/hd6870's
Cards themselves are smaller, allowing for better airflow in an HTPC setup
use more power under load
physx/folding @ home

hd6850/hd6870
---------------
reference models are faster than reference gtx460's
use less power
reference hd6850 is slightly quieter than gtx460, hd6870 is noticeably louder
reference hd6850 runs slightly hotter than gtx460, hd6870 runs noticeably hotter
cards are longer, may impact air flow
eyefinity

 

[Termie]

I agree with all of the above:

(1) Use an SSD as your OS drive
(2) Use only one video card, either 460 or 6850. The 6870 is long enough that it won't fit in small cases. If you're serious about making this blend into your living room, you won't want a case large enough for a 6870. I personally use a 460 768MB in my HTPC and it's the largest card that could fit (at 8.25" long plus PCIe plugs). Also my case is so narrow that I could not use cards with plugs on the top of the card. Consider these issues before buying.
(3) If you have the funds, go i5-750/760. Quads will be better long term for gaming, although the i3 is better overall than the AMDs at the same price for general computing.

 

[Stoneburner]

Also: You haven't specified what alternative case you are looking at. I just bought a lian li pc33b and it's a damn nice full atx case. Also alot of silverstone and thermaltake cases that are good recommendations.

Though the tx650 is an excellent power supply, believe me when I say a modular power supply is very helpful with cramped space. I saw a Antec tp 750 for less than $100 on newegg recently.

Finally: We were all remiss in not pointing you toward this earlier.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=354

Maybe you've seen it. If you have not, you should.

 

[Concillian]

Another option is to go with the first setup (single GPU) but with an i5-750 and a different mobo and powersupply instead of the AMD cpu and 8GB of ram, and upgrade to a second gtx 460 when games require it. Should an i5-750 and single gtx 460 let me play most games at 1080p with FSAA & AF for at least a year?

Not sure what's gonna give me the best bang for my buck. I wanna play in 1080p, so I know the dual GPUs will help. And, a dual core i3 worries me as I know games will soon be (and already are) using more than 2 cores.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

My opinion:
2) i3 and OC it.

If a dual core isn't enough in the future... well, a LOT of gamers are using i5 750 / 760. As people move to 1155 or whatever, there will be plenty of FS/FT opportunity for these processors, which, by all indications, should remain very adequate gaming CPUs until at least the 28nm node.

In the meantime, an i3 at 4 GHz+ performs extremely well in current games. I'm not much one for "future-proofing". There will always be some other reason to upgrade even if you get an i5 now. Get the i3 and your upgrade path is a cheap i5 when the people who have them now need to scratch their upgrade itch.

An added benefit is the power consumption is quite low for a dual core at 4 GHz, you barely need to touch voltage for 4GHz. Sure, you can get 4.4 or whatever with more voltage, but in a HTPC you probably don't want to so heat is less of a factor.

This then leaves room in your budget for a better single GPU card, and this is where I think you'll gain more than the i5. i5 750 really only buys tangible benefit in one specific case:
- you are playing a game that can take advantage of more than 2 cores
- that game would be CPU bound on your current video card

Well, there aren't many games that take advantage of more than 2 cores. Those that would be are not likely to be CPU bound on a GTX 460. You need a higher end video card to approach a CPU binding scenario... therefore, buy the i3, save money, and use that money for a 470 instead.

I could afford a 470 video card (or even a 295 GTX), however it seems anything going above the 460 is going to run significantly hotter and draw a lot more power.

A 470 uses less power than 2x SLI 460, which you're considering. I would always prefer the single GPU setup to an SLI setup.

 

[tweakboy]

Your original build is OVERKILL for HTCP

All you need is 4GB and dont wont even be put to use. Video card honestly a 8800 GT or 9800 GT would do it.

If you get a 460 then that tells me you want to game on it. There is no diff in HTCP from 8800GT to a 460. However video editing there is major difference.

If your going to game on your HTCP you want now then that 460 is a steal deal great buy and EVGA is top notch in every way. Sorry about your ATI issues,, I had issues for 3 and half years with my x800 ubber Athlon 3200+ XP lol ,,,

 

[vineswingman]

Wow, never expected so many replies!

Every Watt you save is a bonus I would go for the i3

Noted. Thank you!

And since it's an HTPC, try to stick a cheap SSD in there at least.

I noticed a lot of people recommending a cheap SSD for the OS. I never would have thought to do this in a HTPC, what is the reasoning behind it? I figured going for a single large disk would be the way to go.

Get a 870 board if you are not using the onboard video.

I will look into that, definetly not using onboard video.

Don't get a 470 card. Runs hotter and uses more power than a 460. Either get a 460 or a 5850. There is a 5850 for $180 ar and some 1gig 460's around $160-170 at newegg.com.

I'm sold on the a 460 of some sort

4gig will be plenty. I have 2 gig in my HTPC and works fine.

Thank you for confirming what I was thinking!

Subjectively and Objectively the 6870 is the best fit for a HTPC.

I've just had so many underscan issues with the 4650 in my laptop that I am completely turned off of ATI, even though I realize their cards are the most power effeciant and have the best price/performance right now.

It would be nice to know where you will keep it. Mine is in a poorly ventilated cabinet so power draw is important. And I use an AMD x4 but if i had a redo I would have gone with intel instead.

As of right now, it will be in the open on a shelf under the TV. I can fit an ATX tower on its side there NP, and is what I'm leaning towards doing right now so I can spend more on components!

i wouldn't use a SLI or CF setup because the extra card means more heat. Get a single GTX 460 or a 6850.

I know, it makes the decision so hard! If I'm running everything in an ATX tower with good airflow, I wonder how much heat will be an issue? I imagine it will be noiseir than I'd like for a HTPC.

For cpu i would get dual core i5 and 4gb of memory is enough. Lets us know what did you end up deciding.

why dual core? it seems if I'm going i5 I should get a quad core now that more games are utilizing them.

When it comes to noise I use 40 gig intel ssds as my os drives with caviar blacks as data and it works great.

So in a HTPC, the SSD's are primarily for noise control?

In regards to ATI underscan you do realize its easy to set right?

Go down to display in CCC. click on the icon for the tv. then the overscan options show up. They used to live natively in CCC but they hid it under display options...

BTW I ONLY use ati cards for htpc because of lpcm and now bitstream audio via HDMI to my recievers who decode them easily. To each his own...

Yes, the problem I have is that I adjust the overscan it fills the screen perfectly but when I go to launch a game, it defaults back to the default setting. I often have to alt-tab out of a game multiple times to adjust it then alt-tab back to the game. This only works 20% of the time. Often I just cannot get a game to run anything but completely underscanned.
I've tried changing drivers, and spent every option I could find to tweak it and never can get it to work right. In fact, this is my main motivation in building a gaming HTPC. I am so tired of spending hours fighting this setting.

As far as audio goes, I go straight to a receiver via optical that doesn't support HDMI.

If you turn of your computer when not using it, idle power draw will not be your main concern. Often when you build a HTPC it's meant to be on 24/7, and then low power consumption is really important. I use my setup as a HTPC.

I would suggest a i5-750 + either a single GTX 460 or 6850

I will probably leave it on most of the time, as a matter of fact. I agree the 750 & 460 is a good combo

I'd stay away from crossfire or SLI in a HTPC build as well. A HD5850/6850/GTX460 all can do a great job at 1080p resolutions while keeping power consumption, noise and heat under control.

Ok. I just see those sli benchmarks and they blow the single card numbers away!

I personally went with a X4 over a i3 as I also was worried about future games. The i3 will generally perform better in games that do not use more than 2 cores, but quads seem to really be the sweet spot now for newer games.

Yeah, I agree, it seems quads are really starting to come into their own.

I have never had any issues with HDMI underscan as far as I have ever noticed and I have used several ATI cards on my HTPC setup, including onboard 4200, 4650, 5770 and now my 5850.

For cases I originally had a cube, but them moved to the Silverstone GD04B which offers pretty good cooling while integrating well with my other A/V components while allowing for good sized graphics cards like my 5850.

I wonder if it's just a compatibility issue with my particular TV (Samsung UN55B6000)? I will look into those cases, thanks!

The pro's and cons of gtx460 vs. hd6850/6870

gtx460's
--------
come in all sorts of variant overclocks that are faster or slower than both hd6850 and up to as fast as an hd6870
Right now they are least expensive solution
generally do not get as hot as the hd6850/hd6870's
Cards themselves are smaller, allowing for better airflow in an HTPC setup
use more power under load
physx/folding @ home

hd6850/hd6870
---------------
reference models are faster than reference gtx460's
use less power
reference hd6850 is slightly quieter than gtx460, hd6870 is noticeably louder
reference hd6850 runs slightly hotter than gtx460, hd6870 runs noticeably hotter
cards are longer, may impact air flow
eyefinity

Thank you for the quick comparison, if I can get this ATI underscan issue solved on my laptop, I will definetly consider ATI cards.

(1) Use an SSD as your OS drive
(2) Use only one video card, either 460 or 6850. The 6870 is long enough that it won't fit in small cases. If you're serious about making this blend into your living room, you won't want a case large enough for a 6870. I personally use a 460 768MB in my HTPC and it's the largest card that could fit (at 8.25" long plus PCIe plugs). Also my case is so narrow that I could not use cards with plugs on the top of the card. Consider these issues before buying.
(3) If you have the funds, go i5-750/760. Quads will be better long term for gaming, although the i3 is better overall than the AMDs at the same price for general computing.

Another SSD recommendation.. Another no-SLI recommendation too! I have a lot of room for the case, so probably will go large. It seems the i5 quad is the way to go.

Also: You haven't specified what alternative case you are looking at. I just bought a lian li pc33b and it's a damn nice full atx case. Also alot of silverstone and thermaltake cases that are good recommendations.

Though the tx650 is an excellent power supply, believe me when I say a modular power supply is very helpful with cramped space. I saw a Antec tp 750 for less than $100 on newegg recently.

Finally: We were all remiss in not pointing you toward this earlier.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...40972&page=354

Maybe you've seen it. If you have not, you should.

The alternate case is a generic lian-li aluminum ATX mid-tower. I can't remember the model # of the top of my head, but I already own it, so that's a big plus!

Ok, i will look into modular. Especially if I go with a micro-atx build. Wow, what a thread! I'll check it out, thank you!

My opinion:
2) i3 and OC it.

If a dual core isn't enough in the future... well, a LOT of gamers are using i5 750 / 760. As people move to 1155 or whatever, there will be plenty of FS/FT opportunity for these processors, which, by all indications, should remain very adequate gaming CPUs until at least the 28nm node.

In the meantime, an i3 at 4 GHz+ performs extremely well in current games. I'm not much one for "future-proofing". There will always be some other reason to upgrade even if you get an i5 now. Get the i3 and your upgrade path is a cheap i5 when the people who have them now need to scratch their upgrade itch.

An added benefit is the power consumption is quite low for a dual core at 4 GHz, you barely need to touch voltage for 4GHz. Sure, you can get 4.4 or whatever with more voltage, but in a HTPC you probably don't want to so heat is less of a factor.

This then leaves room in your budget for a better single GPU card, and this is where I think you'll gain more than the i5. i5 750 really only buys tangible benefit in one specific case:
- you are playing a game that can take advantage of more than 2 cores
- that game would be CPU bound on your current video card

Well, there aren't many games that take advantage of more than 2 cores. Those that would be are not likely to be CPU bound on a GTX 460. You need a higher end video card to approach a CPU binding scenario... therefore, buy the i3, save money, and use that money for a 470 instead.

OK, that's an interesting recommendation and I will look into it. You make a good point about the 470 using less power, I didn't look much into one because it didn't seem much faster than a 460 in addition to heat/power issues.

Thank you again for all of the responses, it gives me a lot to think about. It seems everyone is telling me to stay away from SLI in a HTPC, which is a shame because I found these cards for $129 after mail-in-rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390

I will keep on looking and keep the thread updated as I go along.

 

[vineswingman]

OK.

I went overkill, and blew my budget. Computer arrived today, I'm using it now. So far, so good!

Went with:

Asrock p55 Extreme4 mobo
2X 1GB ASUS Geforce GTX 460 (SLI)
Core i5 750
4GB DDR3 1600
2X 320GB samsung spinpoint f4 harddrives (raid 0)
Antec 750 Watt p/s

it's quieter than I thought it would be, and the nvidia output looks fantastic with no underscan issues

 

[Stoneburner]

Nice. What case did you go with? And why that particular hard drive?

 

[betasub]

Well, it's a fairly beefy gaming build you've gone for there. HTPC use, and cool and quiet, are definintely secondary!

SLI and RAID0: strange choices for HTPC.

 

[Throckmorton]

Keep your case. I've switched to a little mini case and it was just too cramped. It's not like you can go to a really slim case anyway, because you're using a real video card.

I dumped the mini box and switched to my 10 year old Lian Li aluminum old faithful case!

I'd definitely go quad core. A lot of modern games run terribly on anything less.

 

[vineswingman]

And why that particular hard drive?

http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_spinpoint_f4_review_hd322gj

it was cheap and comparatively fast. Haven't benchmarked it yet. Windows Experience Index only gave me a 5.9 for storage, which is surprising for a raid-0 setup, but I don't put much faith in that anyway

Plus I already have two 1TB hard drives for media storage!

Well, it's a fairly beefy gaming build you've gone for there. HTPC use, and cool and quiet, are definintely secondary!

SLI and RAID0: strange choices for HTPC.

Yes, so it seems. I really want to game in 1080p on my 55" screen, none of the current consoles really provide that, so that was the main motivation here. The current game consoles are around 5 years old, and don't look to be replaced anytime soon.

I'm actually really glad I went with SLI.. When I first set the computer up, I was running only one card by accident and had some framerate issues with crysis in max settings at 1080p. Once I got the SLI working, it was smooth as butter

Keep your case. I've switched to a little mini case and it was just too cramped. It's not like you can go to a really slim case anyway, because you're using a real video card.

I dumped the mini box and switched to my 10 year old Lian Li aluminum old faithful case!

I'd definitely go quad core. A lot of modern games run terribly on anything less.

I did both! the i5 750 was easy to overclock to 3.2ghz with stock fan and voltage. The case fits behind my LED-LCD TV, so don't have to worry about aesthetics, and as a bonus the TV itself blocks out the majority of the system noise. For media playback it's practically silent, when gaming you can hear it....... but only if you mute the TV. Hehe. Wife is OK with it, and that's what matters, right?

I was also relieved to find I had no problems setting the bios and installing windows using the TV as a display.