[GamersNexus] Asetek Demands AMD Cease Sales of Fury X on Infringement Claims

[KaRLiToS]

SOURCE

The newest development has spread in that direction. In a statement to GamersNexus, Asetek wrote:

“Asetek’s attorneys have recently sent cease and desist letters to Gigabyte, demanding that it cease selling Giga-Byte’s GEFORCE GTX 980 Water Force (sold under at least model number GV-N980WAOC-4GD) because it contains the Seidon 120M found by the court to infringe Asetek’s patents.

Asetek’s attorneys have also written a cease and desist letter to AMD, demanding that it stop selling its Radeon R9 Fury X product, because it infringes Asetek’s patents. Our attorneys have had some difficulty obtaining a Gigabyte GV-N98TXTREME W-6GD, but we expect to receive and analyze one very soon for infringement.”

 

[Techhog]

RIP AMD... unless this actually forces them to allow custom models.

 

[Arachnotronic]

RIP AMD... unless this actually forces them to allow custom models.

Not like Fury X is a huge seller for AMD...

 

[Techhog]

Not like Fury X is a huge seller for AMD...

It's the PR that'll do them in.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It's the PR that'll do them in.

Nah, I don't think this is a big deal. Most consumers don't follow the stuff that we enthusiasts do and even if they did, so what?

This isn't going to impact AMD's business in any material fashion, IMO.

 

[Techhog]

Nah, I don't think this is a big deal. Most consumers don't follow the stuff that we enthusiasts do and even if they did, so what?

This isn't going to impact AMD's business in any material fashion, IMO.

AMD is already seen by the public as a low-quality company. Now they'll also be seen as a copycat. It's going to hurt. Remember that this will also prevent them from releasing the Fury X2 (most likely), so there's a ton of R&D down the drain.

 

[KaRLiToS]

This isn't only about AMD, Gigabyte waterforce GTX 980 is also in the sight.

 

[railven]

The AMD news isn't new. They did this 3-4 months ago? On the heels of the Fury X launch. Why some of us speculated you saw ramp up of Fury and Fury Nano's and the Fury X seeing as little push.

However, if I had to guess after the pump fiasco, they properly secretly changed the cooler used. But that's just my guess.

EDIT:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/2106-liquid-cooling-lawsuit-could-impact-fury-x
9/23/2015

 

[Mondozei]

RIP AMD

Aren't you dramatic?

 

[senseamp]

AMD should just call their cooler "Free-Asetek" and move on.

 

[RussianSensation]

They can just source another 3rd party supplier such as Corsair or go directly to Asetek. Alternatively, if you look at Newegg, the custom Sapphire Tri-X, XFX and Gigabyte Fury card coolers would be a 100% fit for after-market Fury X option. MSI SeaHawk 980Ti and EVGA Hybrid 980Ti are proof that there are solutions outside of using CM AIO.

 

[Mondozei]

Some background:

http://vrworld.com/2014/07/02/aseteks-watercooling-patent-will-hurt-consumers/

They have basically opted to become patent trolls as a business strategy.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I disagree. Also as seen with the Cooler Master case, it was pretty much an identical ripoff. Stealing other peoples work is...stealing.

 

[RussianSensation]

Some background:

http://vrworld.com/2014/07/02/aseteks-watercooling-patent-will-hurt-consumers/

They have basically opted to become patent trolls as a business strategy.

With the U.S.'s broken patent system, do you blame them? Any corporate/legal loophole in the system will be exploited to make $ until it's fixed.

"And inversions are just one of many ways US companies stash earnings abroad. Between 2008 and 2013, American firms had more than $2.1 trillion in profits held overseas—that's as much as $500 billion in unpaid taxes."
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/11/pfizer-allergan-merger-tax-inversion

If the U.S. patent system existed during the Neanderthal era, right now all of us would be paying licensing fees to be able to walk.

I disagree. Also as seen with the Cooler Master case, it was pretty much an identical ripoff. Stealing other peoples work is...stealing.

You should travel back in time and patent the ability to package and sell bottled water and anyone else that did the same thing would pay you licensing fees for engaging in "identical" water packaging ripoff practices. While at it, make sure to patent toilet paper, nose tissue, etc.

Meh, it's not as if AMD doesn't have other options.
http://www.techpowerup.com/216077/m...eforce-gtx-980-ti-sea-hawk-graphics-card.html

Stealing other peoples work is...stealing.

The patent applies to the entire idea/process. AMD and CM are just one example:

http://techreport.com/news/23498/asetek-gets-liquid-cooling-patents-sues-coolit
http://www.eteknix.com/swiftech-halts-sale-of-h220-aio-in-the-usa-asetek-strikes-again/

That means no matter how anyone would design the interior/exterior of the AIO CLC with a pump, if it follows the Asetek's patented process, you are in breach of the patent. It's not about 100% copying the Asetek design because your design could look completely different and it wouldn't matter.

Cannot put the entire blame on Asetek as they are just taking advantage of the idiotic ideas of the U.S. patent office granting patent to broad processes that should have never geen allowed to be patented in the first place.

Did it ever cross your mind that other countries do not accept the horrendous U.S. patent system?

"Asetek claim Swiftech infringement on Asetek patents 8240362 and 8245764 while Swiftech claim such infringement is nonsense. To anyone with common sense the difference between Asetek and Swiftech AIOs is large. The Swiftech H220 is a modified extension of Swiftech’s custom water cooling kits while Asetek’s AIO design is cut down, cheap and uses basic grade components.

While Swiftech is crippled by Asetek for the foreseeable future in the USA, hopefully there will be an end in site for them that will allow them to sell in the USA. Asetek offered to license its pump head unit to Swiftech and let Swiftech use their own radiator, fans and tubing. Swiftech declined such offer because the main selling point of the H220 is the dramatically more powerful pump which powers the expandability of the unit."

The end result of Asetek's patent trolling is that we as consumers suffer or companies have to pay lawyers large legal fees, $$$ that could instead be used towards future products, R&D, PC game bundles, etc.

Asetek is just butt-hurt that their design wasn't purchased because it was either too expensive or inferior for the price. Hence, they decided to sue everyone competing against them, including CoolIT, CM, Swiftech, etc.

 

[railven]

Some background:

http://vrworld.com/2014/07/02/aseteks-watercooling-patent-will-hurt-consumers/

They have basically opted to become patent trolls as a business strategy.

People were saying the same thing back when it was brought against AMD. Until someone pointed out just how much CM copied Asetek's design. I'll see if i can find the image.

They basically pulled a Vanilla Ice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-1_9-z9rbY

 

[crisium]

They can just source another 3rd party supplier such as Corsair or go directly to Asetek. Alternatively, if you look at Newegg, the custom Sapphire Tri-X, XFX and Gigabyte Fury card coolers would be a 100% fit for after-market Fury X option. MSI SeaHawk 980Ti and EVGA Hybrid 980Ti are proof that there are solutions outside of using CM AIO.

The Tri-X cooler should become the standard for Fury X and any new AMD cards with relatively high TDP. It looks like the XFX and Powercolor Fury cards are basically cloning it. I'm not sure how good they are compared to the real deal, but essentially it has become the reference cooler for the Fury with only ASUS and Gigabyte deferring.

Some people will simply never want water. All that metal and 3 fans is undoubtedly more expensive to make than a blower, but honestly that lost sales from bad publicity of their blowers has cost AMD far more harm. Water is better than blower, but water only is a bit gimmicky.

 

[96Firebird]

People were saying the same thing back when it was brought against AMD. Until someone pointed out just how much CM copied Asetek's design. I'll see if i can find the image.

I believe this is the image you're referring to:

CM is on left, Asetek is on right.

As an engineer who designs custom stuff, this pisses me off. I don't file for patents on most of my custom designs because they are one-off, but if I spent weeks designing a pump, went through the trouble of patenting the design, just to see it ripped off and used in a major design, I'd be upset. I hope CM gets what is coming to them...

 

[railven]

Here it is:

http://www.legitreviews.com/120mm-water-cooler-round-up-part-2-looking-inside_129601

From conclusion page:

The Scythe and the Zalman LQ315 are two confirmed Asetek units of later generations due to them having Asetek branded hardware and the lug mounting system that Asetek has had since the first generation of their coolers.
The Cooler Master and the Zalman Resorator Max are two that are close to Asetek designs internally, but mounting system, coolant, and radiators are not. Now I do not claim to understand patents, but with what I have seen in my tear down of these coolers I can understand how Asetek claimed in 2012 that competitors were ripping off their designs. The Cooler Master Sedion 120M and Zalman Reserator 3 Max are very similar to the Asetek designs and many of the parts were found to be interchangeable.

And then just check out the break downs:
Confirmed Asetek Design:
http://www.legitreviews.com/120mm-water-cooler-round-up-part-2-looking-inside_129601/4

And Cooler Master design:
http://www.legitreviews.com/120mm-water-cooler-round-up-part-2-looking-inside_129601/2

Definitely pulled a Vanilla Ice haha.


EDIT:

I believe this is the image you're referring to:

CM is on left, Asetek is on right.

As an engineer who designs custom stuff, this pisses me off. I don't file for patents on most of my custom designs because they are one-off, but if I spent weeks designing a pump, went through the trouble of patenting the design, just to see it ripped off and used in a major design, I'd be upset. I hope CM gets what is coming to them...

Yeah, that's it. I couldn't remember what side did the break down. If I recall correctly, CM tried to fight the settlement of which they lost and I believe Asetek got a higher cut on royalties because of it.

 

[boozzer]

I believe this is the image you're referring to:

CM is on left, Asetek is on right.

As an engineer who designs custom stuff, this pisses me off. I don't file for patents on most of my custom designs because they are one-off, but if I spent weeks designing a pump, went through the trouble of patenting the design, just to see it ripped off and used in a major design, I'd be upset. I hope CM gets what is coming to them...

wow that looks identical. easy lawsuit win.

now my question. how different or similar are other water cooling solutions out on the market these days?

 

[railven]

wow that looks identical. easy lawsuit win.

They already won. The recent claims are to stop CM from continuing to use the design that is infringing without consent.

They confirmed it was used on AMD's Fury X, but even the OP here states they aren't 100% sure it was used in the new Gigabyte card. If it is, they'll have to pay up (again).

 

[Techhog]

wow that looks identical. easy lawsuit win.

now my question. how different or similar are other water cooling solutions out on the market these days?

Spoiler: You're not going to get an answer to that question.

 

[RussianSensation]

wow that looks identical. easy lawsuit win.

That's not what the word identical means.

"similar in every detail; exactly alike."
"indistinguishable"

You can easily tell that they are not identical, rather they are very similar.

For the U.S. patent system, the process/idea is what matters. The plastic design/parts do not have to be identical for breach of patent.

now my question. how different or similar are other water cooling solutions out on the market these days?

You aren't allowed to put the pump on top of the water-block without paying a licensing fee to Asetek. That's why Swiftech redesigned their new line of AIO CLCs. That means everyone else is either buying Asetek designs and putting their corporate sticker on top (Corsair), or they are paying Asetek licensing fees.

Example #1: Using Asetek process/idea of the design - pretty much all Corsair AIO CLCs <--- pay $$$ to Asetek
http://www.asetek.com/customers/do-it-yourself/corsair/corsair-hydro-series-h110/

Example #2: Have to redesign the process by isolating the water block from the pump
See how on the new Swiftech AIO CLCs, the pump is separate from the water block? Because Asetek patented the process/idea of putting the pump on top of the water block.

EK is another example #2: notice how the pump is closer to the rad and the block is its own unit.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EKWB/Predator_240/3.html

I think NV/AMD should just go with the EK model in the first place since it allows for many more years of operation and expansion in the entire loop. The biggest obstacles are such design is more expensive since it's far superior (the pump, the rad, the block are all better) and because the pump is integrated closer to the rad, the compatibility declines dramatically since you cannot just slap a 120mm rad with a pump to any 120mm case fan slot. You'd need to start thinking about additional pump clearance.

 

[96Firebird]

wow that looks identical. easy lawsuit win.

now my question. how different or similar are other water cooling solutions out on the market these days?

Sorry, I should have linked where the images came from: http://www.legitreviews.com/120mm-water-cooler-round-up-part-2-looking-inside_129601

This has 2 Zalman coolers, as well as the CM and a Scythe (Asketek design) taken apart. The "Final Thoughts" page talks about some of the patent suits going on...

Edit - Zalman might be licensing Asetek's design as well, not sure on that...

 

[boozzer]

I honestly had no idea you can patent something as stupid as that.

that is like general motors patenting car engines placement in the front of the car and the back. and every car maker in the world have to pay gm a fee for their engine placements.

I thought the patent system was stupid as hell when it was revealed for the apple rounded corners, this is the same level of BS.

 

[railven]

I honestly had no idea you can patent something as stupid as that.

that is like general motors patenting car engines placement in the front of the car and the back. and every car maker in the world have to pay gm a fee for their engine placements.

I thought the patent system was stupid as hell when it was revealed for the apple rounded corners, this is the same level of BS.

RS is over simplfying. It isn't because the pump is physically located on the mount, it's because they literally copied the Asetek design.

I mean, look at this:
Asetek Design:

Coolermastter Design:

EDIT: The Legit Review conclusion even said this:

The Cooler Master Sedion 120M and Zalman Reserator 3 Max are very similar to the Asetek designs and many of the parts were found to be interchangeable.