Game programming...

[gothamhunter]

Yeah yeah, everyone wants to make video games blah blah.

Now that's out of the way, I'm looking for some ideas on what works as a video game programming language.

I'm looking to make something SNES style. I know that there's RPG Maker, which I've been using, and there's another one that Microsoft provided that I can't remember, but I was wondering what resources you all can think of and what language you think would work?

Yes, I'm hoping to make it a commercial game as well.

 

[Crusty]

If you are interested in 'making a game' and not 'designing game engines' then your best bet is to use something like Unity. However, if you're interested in getting into the engine side of things then using something Microsoft's XNA framework is a good stepping stone before getting into a full blown OpenGL or DirectX engine.

 

[Leros]

For what its worth, graphics is mostly a bunch of math and physics... probably not what you're actually interested in doing. I'd be looking for pre-built engine that you can build on, as Crusty suggested.

 

[BrightCandle]

There are a lot of potential game platforms that you can use today and what you use depends very much on your audience. People are writing games in things like XNA, but also in raw Javascript and even Java. Regardless of language and platform there are usually some game engines about to help you on your way.

 

[Markbnj]

I wrote one fairly popular game back in the 90's, in C++ for Windows. I'd love to still be doing games as side projects, but the main thing that stops me is assets. Anyone here could learn to write game code, and it is a ton of fun to do, but art and sound is a huge impediment. So few people are good at it, and it takes a lot of time.

 

[Modelworks]

Panda is the way to go if you want to get started in game programming without being bogged down with all the code.
http://www.panda3d.org/

 

[brandonb]

MSVS 2010 C++. DirectX SDK.

Thats all you need.

But like Mark said, and I agree, you can only do so much before you need assets. I wrote many engines back in the day, but without the assets you don't have much. It's hard to program for skeletal animation when you have no animation to work with. The farthest I went on my own was making space games, where you had planets, and static 3d objects that did not move (and if they did, it was more like a turret rather than cloth like simulation).

After years of tinkering, I finally gave up, and realized if I wanted to make something commercial, and did it on my own, I had to limit the scope of what I was doing, or hire a team of 20, because if I did it myself it would take 20 years to get something accomplished, and that isn't really all that fun.

 

[Pia]

MSVS 2010 C++. DirectX SDK.

Thats all you need.

But like Mark said, and I agree, you can only do so much before you need assets.

Yeah, you can only do ADOM, Dwarf Fortress, Minecraft, Tumiki Fighters, Every Extend, most mobile games in existence...?

If you manage to design and build a game that is actually fun to play, you have a much easier time attracting people who make assets to partner with you, to subcontract the assets you need, or both.

I wrote many engines back in the day, but without the assets you don't have much. It's hard to program for skeletal animation when you have no animation to work with. The farthest I went on my own was making space games, where you had planets, and static 3d objects that did not move (and if they did, it was more like a turret rather than cloth like simulation).

I have never seen a game that distinguished itself and was fun by the virtue of having great cloth simulation and skeletal animation. You make it sound like you were messing with bits and pieces of technology, not driven to build a game.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Check out Ogre. I have not used it myself but I read up on it. I've been sorta looking into making a MMO game, but not sure yet, only kinda brainstorming on the side. It's a HUGE project, but if it works out, very rewarding. I already have the server done (it's an Ultima Online server) so if I made a client with my own graphics, maps etc, I could technically just convert it to my own game.

 

[Stuxnet]

Anyone here could learn to write game code, and it is a ton of fun to do, but art and sound is a huge impediment. So few people are good at it, and it takes a lot of time.

This. Writing game code (not engine code) is pretty easy, but modeling and texturing is its own discipline and you need dedicated people to doing just that. If you were writing a 2D game for the iPhone or iPad, you could get away with some basic sprite work, but going much beyond that requires complex tools and deep knowledge (Blender/Maya/etc, Photoshop). I actually have a turn-based strategy game that I'm brainstorming and POC-ing in Unity, but until I can find an artist or two, it won't go much further.

As for game engines, Unity is pretty damn sweet. You can code in C#, JS, or Boo. Corona is a very popular 2D engine that's based on Lua, but I haven't used it personally so I can't vouch for it.

 

[Markbnj]

If you were writing a 2D game for the iPhone or iPad, you could get away with some basic sprite work, but going much beyond that requires complex tools and deep knowledge (Blender/Maya/etc, Photoshop).

Even 2D sprites are a ton of work. I've done a fair bit of sprite animation and getting the frames right takes a lot of tweaking. Unless you're handy with painting tools and enjoy that kind of work it is extremely tedious. Then there's background tiles, which is yet another entirely distinct talent and discipline. If anyone thinks that's easy, they should try making a cool icon, and then multiply the amount of talent required by 1000 to estimate what's needed to pull off a sweet scrolling tiled background that doesn't look rubber stamped.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

I have never seen a game that distinguished itself and was fun by the virtue of having great cloth simulation and skeletal animation.

When "Dead Drop: Skeleton Paratroopers" hits the iPhone and Android this summer, you're gonna eat those words.

 

[Pia]

Even 2D sprites are a ton of work. I've done a fair bit of sprite animation and getting the frames right takes a lot of tweaking. Unless you're handy with painting tools and enjoy that kind of work it is extremely tedious.

Well, he said basic sprite work. It's within the ability of most people to make sprites with Space Invaders quality and resolution, and no animation or two frames of animation. For some games that may get them pretty far.

High quality sprites are certainly hard. I think it's well established that they are more work than modeling; otherwise developers wouldn't have switched en masse to using 3D graphics in 2D games at a time when computer power and 3D tech were producing completely inferior results to well-made sprites.

Then there's background tiles, which is yet another entirely distinct talent and discipline. If anyone thinks that's easy, they should try making a cool icon, and then multiply the amount of talent required by 1000 to estimate what's needed to pull off a sweet scrolling tiled background that doesn't look rubber stamped.

I'm pretty sure I could make an okay-ish scrolling tiled background that doesn't look rubber stamped. First generate whatever type of texture is needed, then edit to make continuous (also continuous if rotated), and make a few variants from which the engine can draw from at random. And transitional tiles.

Basically complete recipe here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3028/tiled_terrain.php?print=1

Drawing and animating okay-ish medium-res sprites is impossible if you don't have the drawing skill, or the "eye". In comparison I think okay-ish background tiles seem more of an issue of knowing a general idea of what to do, and then putting in the hours, tweaking at each of those work phases until it looks right and you can proceed to the next.

 

[Markbnj]

I'm pretty sure I could make an okay-ish scrolling tiled background that doesn't look rubber stamped. First generate whatever type of texture is needed, then edit to make continuous (also continuous if rotated), and make a few variants from which the engine can draw from at random. And transitional tiles.

It's not necessarily the mechanics of it that are hard, though they are tedious. I chose an icon for an analogy because making icons seems to be a particular talent, and I know good artists who aren't really any good at icons.

Anyway, the idea isn't to dissuade people from trying. There are Minecrafts and other simple games to serve as examples. It does still happen.

 

[Cogman]

I wrote one fairly popular game back in the 90's, in C++ for Windows.

Wait, which game did you write? Now I'm curious.

But yes, I agree about your statement on the art. It is one of the biggest and hardest to overcome obstacles for an indie game programmer. The other place that I often get lost in is the minutia. Every time I've started on a "game" project, I've spent way too much time on tiny details that really don't make a difference in the end "Oh, I don't want to use the SDL, instead I'll create an abstract window making class and use that!".

 

[Markbnj]

Wait, which game did you write? Now I'm curious.

But yes, I agree about your statement on the art. It is one of the biggest and hardest to overcome obstacles for an indie game programmer. The other place that I often get lost in is the minutia. Every time I've started on a "game" project, I've spent way too much time on tiny details that really don't make a difference in the end "Oh, I don't want to use the SDL, instead I'll create an abstract window making class and use that!".

Well, fairly popular might be stretching it even, but remember this was in the shareware days. The game was called "MVP Backgammon." This page shows both the Win16 version I wrote originally, and the Win32 version the publisher had done after I lost interest .

http://www.classicdosgames.com/game/MVP_Backgammon.html

 

[Apathetic]

Check out this site: http://www.gamedev.net/

Dave

 

[gothamhunter]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I'd say that I'm mediocre at best with programming right now; I love to program, but the idea of making my own game engine is a daunting one.

I followed some XNA RPG tutorials not too long ago and at one point I wasn't even sure why I was doing something anymore and I just booted up RPG Maker again. I really enjoy RPG Maker because my strong suit is the mapping of a game, but I'm not sure how commercially successful a game from there would be.

I downloaded the Unity engine and will be going through the tuts there.