Game progamming jobs suck this much?

SONYFX

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May 14, 2003
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This is from a NY Times article on Electronic Arts:


"For around $60,000 a year in an area with a high cost of living, he had been set to work on a six-day-a-week schedule. On weekdays, his team worked from 9 to 10 (that is, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m.), and on Saturdays, a half-day (that means 9 to 6). Then Sundays were added - noon to 8 or 10 p.m. The weekly total was 82 to 84 hours."


 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
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All programming jobs SUCK, unless you work for the government, Microsoft, or Google, and then programming still sucks.
 

SONYFX

Senior member
May 14, 2003
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FUll article:

When a Video Game Stops Being Fun
By RANDALL STROSS


HARLES DICKENS himself would shudder, I should think, were he to see the way young adults are put to work in one semimodern corner of our economy. Gas lamps are long gone, and the air is free of soot. But you can't look at a place like Electronic Arts, the world's largest developer of entertainment software, and not think back to the early industrial age when a youthful work force was kept fully occupied during all waking hours to enrich a few elders.
Games for video consoles and PC's have become a $7 billion-a-year business. Based in Redwood City, Calif., Electronic Arts is the home of the game franchises for N.F.L. football, James Bond and "Lord of the Rings," among many others. For avid players with professional ambitions to develop games, E.A. must appear to be the best place in the world. Writing cool games and getting paid to boot: what more could one ask?
Yet there is unhappiness among those who are living that dream. Based on what can be glimpsed through cracks in E.A.'s front facade, its high-tech work force is toiling like galley slaves chained to their benches.
The first crack opened last summer, when Jamie Kirschenbaum, a salaried E.A. employee, filed a class-action lawsuit against the company, accusing it of failure to pay overtime compensation. He remains at the company, so I spoke with him by phone last week to get an update. He told me that since joining E.A. in June 2003 in the image production department, he has been working - at the company's insistence - around 65 hours a week, spread over six or seven days. Putting in long hours is what the industry calls "crunching." Once upon a time, the crunch came in the week or two before shipping a new release. Mr. Kirschenbaum's experience, however, has been a continuous string of crunches.
Crunches also once were followed by commensurate periods of time off. Mr. Kirschenbaum reports, however, that E.A. has scaled back informal comp time, never formally codified, to a token two weeks per project. He said his own promised comp time had disappeared altogether. At this point, he said he would be glad to enjoy a Labor Day without laboring, or eat a Fourth of July spread at some place other than his cubicle, pleasures he has not enjoyed for two years. The company said it had no comment on the lawsuit, but it is likely to argue that Mr. Kirschenbaum's image production position is exempt from the laws governing overtime compensation.
A few days ago, another crack opened - one large enough to fit a picture window. An anonymous writer who signed herself as "E.A. Spouse" posted on the Web a detailed account of hellish employer-mandated hours reaching beyond 80 hours a week for months. No less remarkable were the thousands of comments that swiftly followed in online discussion forums for gamers and other techies, providing volumes of similar stories at E.A. and at other game developers.
I learned the identity of the E.A. employee described in the anonymous account and spoke at length with him in person late one night, adding a third shift to the day's double that he'd already worked. He seemed credible in all respects, in his command of technical detail, in his unshakable enthusiasm for the games he works on - and in his pallor.
For around $60,000 a year in an area with a high cost of living, he had been set to work on a six-day-a-week schedule. On weekdays, his team worked from 9 to 10 (that is, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m.), and on Saturdays, a half-day (that means 9 to 6). Then Sundays were added - noon to 8 or 10 p.m. The weekly total was 82 to 84 hours.
By tradition, Silicon Valley employers have always offered their bleary-eyed employees lottery tickets in the form of stock options. E.A.'s option grants, however, offer little chance of a Google-like bonanza. An employee who started today with an options package like that of the E.A. worker just described (and who stayed with the company the four years required to fully vest) would get $120,000, for example, if the share price quadrupled - and proportionally less for more modest increases. The odds of a skyrocketing stock grew much longer this month, when the company said competition had forced it to cut prices on core sports titles.
Still, the company is a generous warden: free laundry service, free meals, free ice cream and snacks. The first month, the E.A. employee recalled, he and his colleagues were delighted by the amenities. But he said they soon came to feel that seeing the sun occasionally would have had more of a tonic effect.
This employee, who has not had a single day off in two months, is experienced in the game software business. But he said he had never before had to endure a death-march pace that begins many months before the beta testing phase that precedes the release of a project.
Jeff Brown, a company spokesman, declined to comment on E.A. Spouse's allegations. Mr. Brown did say that the company was interested in its employees' opinions, as illustrated by its employee survey, conducted every two years. This suggests that it needs to conduct a survey to learn whether a regular routine of 80-hour weeks is popular among the salaried rank and file.
Asked about reports of employees working long, uncompensated hours, Mr. Brown responded that "the hard work" entailed in writing games "isn't unique to E.A." He is correct; smaller studios demand it, too. The International Game Developers Association conducted an industrywide "quality of life" survey this year documenting that "crunch time is omnipresent." The study urged readers to tell "the young kids just starting out" in the industry to reject the hours that lock them into "an untenable situation once they start wanting serious relationships and families."
Electronic Arts' early history has none of the taint of present labor practices, and many who are acquainted with the old E.A. and the new E.A. have publicly lamented in Web forums the disappearance of the generosity practiced by Trip Hawkins, who founded the company in 1982. Mr. Hawkins, who has not been associated with E.A. for many years, said that he was not surprised by E.A. Spouse's story. He called today's E.A. a corporate "Picture of Dorian Gray," its attractive surface hiding a not-so-attractive reality.
INDEED, E.A. is noticeably young in appearance. After Randy Pausch, a computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon University, spent a sabbatical last spring as a researcher at the company, he wrote, "I am 43 and I felt absolutely ancient during my time there." He said the place felt to him like "Logan's Run," the 1976 science fiction movie in which no one is allowed to live past 30 - and he felt even older when he realized that the 20-somethings were too young to know the reference.
The company has 3,300 employees in its studios developing game titles, and it hires 1,000 new people a year. (Company officials said voluntary turnover is about 10 percent annually.) In the past, it has hired only about 10 percent of new studio personnel directly from college; it has set a goal of increasing that to 75 percent, which would skew the median age still younger.
Professor Pausch listed cost savings from lower salaries as one reason E.A. wishes to shift hiring to a younger group. The company also recognizes that fresh graduates are the most suggestible; Professor Pausch said he heard managers say that "young kids don't know what's impossible." That, however, they will learn when they get their schedules.
Randall Stross is a historian and author based in Silicon Valley. E-mail:Ddomain@nytimes.com.
 

SONYFX

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May 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: sunzt
All programming jobs SUCK, unless you work for the government, Microsoft, or Google, and then programming still sucks.

Microsoft sucks too, I see people working 10+ hours there everyday, of course it does not look as bad as game programming.
 

ktehmok

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2001
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No one is twisting their arm to work there.

Who said that you're entitled to ridiculous amounts of money for writing code? Did he agree to the work schedule when he hired on? If so then whaaa....

He could always go out & pick up a shovel and earn a living that way.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
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9am-10pm? That's insane. You're programmers will be too damn tired to program.
 

robphelan

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2003
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Originally posted by: sunzt
All programming jobs SUCK, unless you work for the government, Microsoft, or Google, and then programming still sucks.

not mine.. i really enjoy what i do
 

mk52

Senior member
Aug 8, 2000
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programming for a financial firm, especially on the trading floor is were the cash is at
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
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yeah right, they're just neffing the whole time

What?

With their hours they have at most 8 hours a night to sleep. That's assuming they don't have to do anything about cooking, shopping, laundry, housing maintanence, working out, etc.

They'd have to eat crappy fast food and have no exercise. Sounds like a terrible environment for productive work.

Try programming in Assembly with little sleep, you'll sit in front of the screen spending half your time trying to figure out what register holds what data because you were so damn tired that you made several common mistakes and you're having to debug in Assembly.
 

Zanix

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2003
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Originally posted by: Legend
yeah right, they're just neffing the whole time

What?

With their hours they have at most 8 hours a night to sleep. That's assuming they don't have to do anything about cooking, shopping, laundry, housing maintanence, working out, etc.

They'd have to eat crappy fast food and have no exercise. Sounds like a terrible environment for productive work.

Try programming in Assembly with little sleep, you'll sit in front of the screen spending half your time trying to figure out what register holds what data because you were so damn tired that you made several common mistakes and you're having to debug in Assembly.



AIIEEEEEEE!!!!!!
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: SONYFX
This is from a NY Times article on Electronic Arts:


"For around $60,000 a year in an area with a high cost of living, he had been set to work on a six-day-a-week schedule. On weekdays, his team worked from 9 to 10 (that is, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m.), and on Saturdays, a half-day (that means 9 to 6). Then Sundays were added - noon to 8 or 10 p.m. The weekly total was 82 to 84 hours."

damn that translates to 30K a year

working normal hours
 

SONYFX

Senior member
May 14, 2003
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Why are people complaining sweat shops in developing countries? Nobody is forcing them to work there either.:roll:
 

SONYFX

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May 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: MelikK
programming for a financial firm, especially on the trading floor is were the cash is at

I don't think so, I'm programming in a big financial firm and people get paid less than in pure tech companies.
 

Chompman

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Mar 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: SONYFX
Originally posted by: MelikK
programming for a financial firm, especially on the trading floor is were the cash is at

I don't think so, I'm programming in a big financial firm and people get paid less than in pure tech companies.

Then you must be doing it wrong. :D

Next time give yourself some extra bonuses. :p
 

EmperorIQ

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Chompman
Originally posted by: SONYFX
Originally posted by: MelikK
programming for a financial firm, especially on the trading floor is were the cash is at

I don't think so, I'm programming in a big financial firm and people get paid less than in pure tech companies.

Then you must be doing it wrong. :D

Next time give yourself some extra bonuses. :p

what financial firms are you guys talking about?
 

Ranger X

Lifer
Mar 18, 2000
11,218
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The reason those financial firms pay more is because they give yearly (sometimes quarterly) bonuses. Where I work, the company cannot comprehend such a concept.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
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EA Games' poor working conditions, just like their poor products, are well-documented. This is a new article covering old news.
 

40Hands

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2004
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Argh this is pretty bad but I can't get enough of battlefield 2! As buggy and poorly programmed as it is.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: ktehmok
No one is twisting their arm to work there.

Who said that you're entitled to ridiculous amounts of money for writing code? Did he agree to the work schedule when he hired on? If so then whaaa....

He could always go out & pick up a shovel and earn a living that way.

This is an idiotic statement. $60,000 is not a rediculous amount of money for a degreed developer... in fact, in most areas of the company and with regard to cost of living, it's underpaid.

And of course he didn't agree to work 65 - 80+ hours a week. No one in their right mind would. The pattern at EA is that potential employees are asked something along the lines of "would you mind working extra hours during the crunch time period that preceds a title's release?"... but that period of time quickly gets extended to 'all the time'.