Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

Page 432 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,850
511
136
HBO wiki sucks. But it does say that steel was not introduced to Westeros until the Andals invaded 6,000 years ago which was 2,000 years after the last White Walker invasion. Since there was no steel at all, let alone Valyrian steel, in the last invasion when Jon parried and then killed that walker with Longclaw I'm sure the walkers were quite surprised. I have a feeling they will be particularly interested in him now.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
so how many people died at hardhome? from the tv show, it seemed like they saved maybe a few dozen people, and 10s of thousands died.

Snow asked Redbeard if he thought they were at 5,000 people, Redbeard claimed he was terrible at counting.

Jon Snow being awesome, you have to assume he was somewhat accurate with those numbers at a glance.

It was also mentioned in that episode (by Roose) that Stannis supposedly has ~6k people in his army. The numbers they are talking about for armies actually seem really small, to me, compared to the long shots we often get of these groups--Stannis's army sweeping in and capturing Manse at the end of last season, the Wildlings at their camp in this episode, etc.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
yes, and that no music part is exactly what i was talking about. typically there is music playing as soon as they start rolling.

even your link has it labeled as "silent credits"

The Red Wedding and some other episode last season, I think, were the only others with completely silent credits. (It wasn't Joffreys' death--I recall some lyrical song for that)
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
So, Valyrian steel will kill whites. Dany's blood line is original from Valyria. Um, coincidence? I think not.
 

ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,446
1
81
Why did the woman wildling not attack when the children attacked her? Were her kids part of those children or was it because she didn't want to attack kids?
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Ahh, your right, it was Jason and the Argonauts. I always confuse those two movies.



I think Jon said they saved about 5000, and that was before the walkers attacked. Stannis's army was estimated at around 5000 in the Bolton strategy scene. It does look like the toughest guys stayed behind to fight, but I would think even 2000 capable warriors is still a significant number. Better than the 50 or so crows they have at the wall.
They had 5,000 staged to go. It seems that they had really only just started loading, so not nearly all of them made it to the ships.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
HBO wiki sucks. But it does say that steel was not introduced to Westeros until the Andals invaded 6,000 years ago which was 2,000 years after the last White Walker invasion. Since there was no steel at all, let alone Valyrian steel, in the last invasion when Jon parried and then killed that walker with Longclaw I'm sure the walkers were quite surprised. I have a feeling they will be particularly interested in him now.
Speaking of that, why was that white walker there in the first place instead of observing from high above like the others? Was he after the dragon glass?
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
So it seems as though only the general/horsemen/ice dude whatevers are the only ones that can actually create other walkers. Maybe only the crowned king one, in fact. So, take out those fuckers and you have a chance.

You mean, they're the only ones who can create wights (the zombies)? There's been so few white walkers shown that it's hard to really know if only some of them can. It's possible that there's no more than a handful of them period.

As for how new walkers are made, I think they have some kind of ritual to turn human babies into them, like they were shown doing with Craster's sacrificed male baby.

My only complaint, and its really just a pie in the sky thing, was that Jon didn't pick up the mini boss white walker's weapon and use it. You can't even block a strike from it unless you have the rarest steel in the world.

That weapon the shatters steel on contact? I wouldn't touch it.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
You mean, they're the only ones who can create wights (the zombies)? There's been so few white walkers shown that it's hard to really know if only some of them can. It's possible that there's no more than a handful of them period.

As for how new walkers are made, I think they have some kind of ritual to turn human babies into them, like they were shown doing with Craster's sacrificed male baby.


.

well we know that one dude turned the baby into something, but we don't know if he's the only one that can do it or not. who he is, is known to book readers or at least assumed. and TBH I think the show needs to explain if that's true or not
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
They had 5,000 staged to go. It seems that they had really only just started loading, so not nearly all of them made it to the ships.

I think 5K is still a good estimate. When the fog rolled in a bunch of people ran in, and most in the staging area jumped on the boats when the fighting started. The guys that ran in when they shut the gate seemed to stay in that area to fight. The scene doesnt really show the scale all that well. There definitely werent 5K people in the staging area, but the last shot of the shore with raised walkers inside the gated area looked like maybe a couple thousand at least, and much more outside of it. I would think most of the walkers in that area were already walkers when the fighting started.

This does bring up some another points..even if they were able to get twice as many people, it doesnt seem like they would have had the ship capacity to take them all. And how is the giant going to get on a ship? Seems like he would tip it over when tries to get in.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
That weapon the shatters steel on contact? I wouldn't touch it.

Why not? It shatters steel when he swings it, but when he stabs people its not like they shatter or turn to ice or something. You should be able to pick up and use it, and put it in a sheath.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
Anyone have a "planetary" view the GoT planet? What about its solar system? I want to see all this from orbit. I mean if winter only comes like every 1000 years... that is one heck of an orbit/rotation.

It doesn't work regularly like seasons on earth, it's totally unpredictable when it hits and can last years. But the last winter wasn't that long ago, last one was AFAIK some time before Sansa was born but after Robb was since Ned says his daughters never experienced it.

The one that happened 8000 years ago was a long winter that lasted several years and totally devastated the continent, THEN the white walkers came while everyone was weakened. Looks like this time they won't need to wait for winter to wear everyone down first since they're already so powerful. Things could have been different thousands of years ago, magic was more common and the Children of the Forest were active and helping the First Men to fight the walkers and build the wall.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
It doesn't work regularly like seasons on earth, it's totally unpredictable when it hits and can last years. But the last winter wasn't that long ago, last one was AFAIK some time before Sansa was born but after Robb was since Ned says his daughters never experienced it.

The one that happened 8000 years ago was a long winter that lasted several years and totally devastated the continent, THEN the white walkers came while everyone was weakened. Looks like this time they won't need to wait for winter to wear everyone down first since they're already so powerful. Things could have been different thousands of years ago, magic was more common and the Children of the Forest were active and helping the First Men to fight the walkers and build the wall.

they didn't build the wall until after they had won
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
You mean, they're the only ones who can create wights (the zombies)? There's been so few white walkers shown that it's hard to really know if only some of them can. It's possible that there's no more than a handful of them period.

As for how new walkers are made, I think they have some kind of ritual to turn human babies into them, like they were shown doing with Craster's sacrificed male baby.

Yeah, just inferring from what they showed last night--the corpses only rose after the white dude did some magicky thing with his arms.

With the baby in the previous season, I think we saw 12 of those guys around the altar, and the one--the same crowned dude that made the zombies in this episode--performing the actual ritual?

So putting some things together, perhaps they need a full council of whites--so 12--to create a new white one, and perhaps only one of them has the full power to make a zombie army, or even make a new white one? But it looks like snow and ice was all it took at the beginning of that siege, but we didn't really see what happened. Could be that they created the ice storm, killed all outside the gate, and performed magic zombie army ritual off camera.

I think there were a lot of clues in place as to how they work, how they can be defeated, but nothing is certain.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
HBO has its own wiki for the show. that should be cool

book wiki prob not

The GoT wikia is very deliberately intended to be specific to the show and separate from a different wikia intended for the book (they do include sctions to describe how the show differs from the book but they're clearly marked) Maybe stuff only from the book ends up in there anyway. But the articles do have references so you can make sure some information comes from a show source. So you can check that it's coming from a suitable reference before posting it.

Note that there have been several supplementary videos released by HBO to cover some of the show's background, so the wikia pages reference these in addition to the show. I'm going to assume they aren't considered show spoilers here.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Yeah, just inferring from what they showed last night--the corpses only rose after the white dude did some magicky thing with his arms.

With the baby in the previous season, I think we saw 12 of those guys around the altar, and the one--the same crowned dude that made the zombies in this episode--performing the actual ritual?

So putting some things together, perhaps they need a full council of whites--so 12--to create a new white one, and perhaps only one of them has the full power to make a zombie army, or even make a new white one? But it looks like snow and ice was all it took at the beginning of that siege, but we didn't really see what happened. Could be that they created the ice storm, killed all outside the gate, and performed magic zombie army ritual off camera.

I think there were a lot of clues in place as to how they work, how they can be defeated, but nothing is certain.
The wights killed everyone outside the gate. I think the mists coming down the mountain were cause by armies of distant wights spilling over like we later saw on the other side of the wall just as they were getting away. They were too far away to bee seen individually at that point but they are fast.
 

matricks

Member
Nov 19, 2014
194
0
0
Unless things are radically different in that mythical world, seasons are determined by a planet's tilt and the latitude of the place in question. :p

Things are radically different in that world. Among other things: humans rise from the dead, creatures are shattered into tiny pieces from a single sword strike, a wall of ice stands tall despite physics demanding it should melt from its own weight, specific humans can control animals and some humans at will. No need to get hung up on the seasons.

From an interview about the books, no current story elements:
GRRM has stated that science plays no part in the odd seasons of the world.
 
Last edited:

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I feel like there were at least 2 times during the fight sequence where the big White Walker guy could have very easily killed Jon Snow but didn't... gotta wonder if that's actually purposeful or (more likely, imho) just bad fight choreography.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,480
7,886
136
yes, and that no music part is exactly what i was talking about. typically there is music playing as soon as they start rolling.

even your link has it labeled as "silent credits"

Uh, it then says "Subverted". Point being, the credits weren't silent. There were background noises and music.

They were in Winterfell ....
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,068
649
126
So putting some things together, perhaps they need a full council of whites--so 12--to create a new white one, and perhaps only one of them has the full power to make a zombie army, or even make a new white one? But it looks like snow and ice was all it took at the beginning of that siege, but we didn't really see what happened. Could be that they created the ice storm, killed all outside the gate, and performed magic zombie army ritual off camera.

I think there were a lot of clues in place as to how they work, how they can be defeated, but nothing is certain.

Very first scene of the series the WW raised the dead wildlings. Pretty sure any WW can raise a wight. Also, it is worth taking a look at tonights episode again, the scene where the WW is revealed in the barn. The fire is extinguished by a growing cloud of frost eminating from the WW. Think we can infer from that the WW made the storm come also.

Totally bummed they were all riding horses though, where are the giant ice spiders (mentioned in the council scene)!?