Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,398
377
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GF and I didn't like the last part of giving birth to a shadow creature.

It felt too 'fantasy' for us. Do you know what I mean? I liked the series so far as a serious period piece with a splash of fantasy, not become a cartoon LOTR.

Anyone else agree? Or explain the ending?
Magic is as much a part of the world of Game of Thrones as it was in LoTR.

Only unlike LoTR there's no one as adept at it as Gandalf in the main cast yet Melisandre not withstanding.

Eddard Stark's sword and the one that Lord Commander Mormont of the Night's Swatch gave to Jon Snow are crafted from Valyrian Steel. The methods of making that steel is no longer known by the blacksmiths of Westeros (if they ever had such knowledge). They might be effective against the others in a way that ordinary steel has proved not to be.

The point is that magic is very present in the world it's just that most of the populous is ignorant of it aside from superstition.

What has set George R.R. Martin's works from a great many other fantasy novels is the focus on politics. Even though magic will become more noticeable in the series it won't nearly be so prominent as LotR, and people in the series will still thrive or suffer based on their skill or lack thereof in maneuvering politically.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,981
14
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I'm pretty sure I remember someone here saying that Stannis never got with the fire chick in the book. So, how the hell did he end up fathering the Shadows?
You should read the wiki on the books, most here have misquoted them several times.

Also regardless we saw the two having sex in the last episode. The series doesn't follow the books 100%
 

benzylic

Golden Member
Jun 12, 2006
1,547
0
0
At the camp Arya was at, what were the people being tortured being questioned about. I heard something about the brotherhood and the village but I'm not drawing a blank on any connections
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
At the camp Arya was at, what were the people being tortured being questioned about. I heard something about the brotherhood and the village but I'm not drawing a blank on any connections
I feel like something ended up on the cutting room floor in regards to that whole section.

The train traveling to the wall with Yoren was supposedly dispersed after a fight with Amory Loch(sp?). Arya then meets back up with Gendry, Hot Pie, and the kid that gets killed. They then assault the camp of Gregor Clegane (for some reason I can't remember) but get captured in the process. The Tickler (The guy asking the questions) is questioning the members of the village they had just overtaken for the whereabouts of Beric Dondarrion (The guy Ned sent off to capture Gregor Clegane in the last season) and his band of outlaws who are now prowling the riverlands wreaking havoc.

I think all you really need to know is that Beric Dondarrion is fighting against at least the Lannister forces in the Riverlands and is a huge thorn in their side, and Poliver took Arya's sword.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,981
14
81
Eddard Stark's sword and the one that Lord Commander Mormont of the Night's Swatch gave to Jon Snow are crafted from Valyrian Steel. The methods of making that steel is no longer known by the blacksmiths of Westeros (if they ever had such knowledge). They might be effective against the others in a way that ordinary steel has proved not to be.
Needle is also made from it.

The key thing is in many battles one's sword quickly dulls and becomes less and less effective.

Valyrian steel never loses it's sharpness.
 

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,366
470
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I feel like something ended up on the cutting room floor in regards to that whole section.

The train traveling to the wall with Yoren was supposedly dispersed after a fight with Amory Loch(sp?). Arya then meets back up with Gendry, Hot Pie, and the kid that gets killed. They then assault the camp of Gregor Clegane (for some reason I can't remember) but get captured in the process. The Tickler (The guy asking the questions) is questioning the members of the village they had just overtaken for the whereabouts of Beric Dondarrion (The guy Ned sent off to capture Gregor Clegane in the last season) and his band of outlaws who are now prowling the riverlands wreaking havoc.

I think all you really need to know is that Beric Dondarrion is fighting against at least the Lannister forces in the Riverlands and is a huge thorn in their side, and Poliver took Arya's sword.
not having read the books i'm having to read a little on the asoiaf wiki to sort stuff out after each episode.

they could explain a lot more by adding ~5 minutes to each episode



'there's no cure for being a wise and beautiful woman'

lol.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
15,783
1,755
126
Needle is also made from it.

The key thing is in many battles one's sword quickly dulls and becomes less and less effective.

Valyrian steel never loses it's sharpness.
No it's not. When Ned stark first sees Needle he examines it proclaims that it's "good castle steel".
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
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A few corrections, with no disrespect to the posters:
Needle is not Valyrian steel.
Westeros knows how to fashion Valyrian steel, they just dont have any more. To make a new knife from it, you have to melt down one of the known blades. The metal comes from a volcanic island that exploded and no longer exists.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,398
377
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they goofed on that as well as 1-2 eps ago it showed Snow honeing/shapening his sword
He's never owned a Valyrian steel sword prior to this (supposedly there are only 200 such weapons on the continent).

While he may know of the qualities of the material his weapon is made out of he might be giving the sword maintenance that it doesn't need just out of general habit the the training he and Robb received from Winterfell's man at arms and would be later surprised at how well it keeps it's edge.

Or maybe it's just a goof :D which it more likely.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,398
377
126
Westeros knows how to fashion Valyrian steel, they just dont have any more. To make a new knife from it, you have to melt down one of the known blades. The metal comes from a volcanic island that exploded and no longer exists.
Yes they know how to work it. However, the actual making of the steel is something that was lost and perhaps never known by the blacksmiths of Westeros.

Perhaps the only blacksmiths in Westeros that knew the art of crafting Valyrian steel were those that House Targaryen brought with them. The crafting of new Valyrian steel from raw material was done in the past possible book spoiler
when the Targaryen's rode their dragons and conquered Westeros
and may have involved magic.

Daenerys' dragons being born may be a sign of magic returning to the world... Keep in mind that their hatching also occurs at a time when the Others are becoming more active.

It is also hinted at in the novels that the Wall was built with the assistance of magic as well.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,148
1
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Really? I thought it was from a magic that was no longer available, not the volcano itself....



BTW, as to the "LotR" and magic comment.... Ya, this series DOES seem to be much more reliant on people rather than spells. Hell, even Alchemy at times (chemistry with the hot pots... I forget their name).

But it does not 100% ignore it. I think that is what makes this series so good. EVERYTHING is not "magic", but magic does exist. You have to deal with it and use it like any other resource. It adds a bit of complexity into a political plot.

So here you have a whole set of people dropping like flies with knives in their backs quibbling over who gets/does what when you have a "dark threat" beyond the wall that only a deceased northern lords bastard son is around to take care of.

And then you have Dragon Woman.

Hell, THAT part could probably have been left out ENTIRELY and done as a parallel series!
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Yes they know how to work it. However, the actual making of the steel is something that was lost and perhaps never known by the blacksmiths of Westeros.

It is also hinted at in the novels that the Wall was built with the assistance of magic as well.
Well, there have been new Valyrian steel blades made during the time of the books.
Ice is made into 2 new swords.
And maybe this is what you are saying.
I am saying that the problem is not the craftsmanship as much as it is simply obtaining the raw materials. The Valyrian Islands are mostly destroyed in a volcano. GRRM says so in multiple interviews comparing it to Krakatoa. One of the Islands may still exist, but no one seems to have been able to get to it and back. The Lanisters and Greyjoys have sent people to find it.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,398
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And maybe this is what you are saying.
That is what I'm saying they can't make new Valyrian Steel but they can work with it such as the example you mentioned. I don't think it is just a matter of raw materials either.

http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/Valyrian_steel this link is spoilerish so don't click if you dont' want to be spoiled.

According to it only one blacksmith in King's Landing is capable of working with Valyrian Steel
 
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zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
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It was not made it was just reformed. They cannot make new Valyrian Steel at this time either due to Valyria exploding and losing a natural resource of some kind or the lack of Dragon Fire. Either way as of right now it is not doable.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,398
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Here is a link with correspondence that George R.R. Martin had with fans brought to a single place.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P105/

It is stated that magic is required in the crafting of Valyrian steel from raw materials even if master-smiths can work with existing sources of it. Such as existing objects made from the material

just hit ctrl-F then search Valyrian

The site is can spoil you so be forewarned.

If you read the books even casually strong hints are dropped that the crafting of Valyrian Steel from raw materials requires not just lost smithing arts but also the application of magic.
 
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zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
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Ok so here the real question. Why did they have Joffrey have one whore beat another one bloody?

I swear to god I don't remember that in the books.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,981
14
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Ok so here the real question. Why did they have Joffrey have one whore beat another one bloody?

I swear to god I don't remember that in the books.
The books had a lot more time to build up Joffrey's 'reader hate'...the series has to fast track it.

Basically it's clear due to being the product of incest he's truly mental even getting a couple of chicks for the first time as a teenager he decides to have one beat the other to near death.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
The books had a lot more time to build up Joffrey's 'reader hate'...the series has to fast track it.
I thought he did a damn good job of getting people to hate him when he stripped Sansa naked and had his guard beat her bloody in front of the entire court. Could just be me though but the whores scene was a bit over the top imo.
 

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