- Aug 11, 2005
I'm not a pro writer, never even tried it yet I could come up with more organic (and cheaper) ways to achieve what the scenes for this episode were to do.I'm not saying some of that didn't feel contrived, but you can't really claim what there is and isn't "needed" for without seeing how the stories play out. There may very well be a need for some or all of these.
I think they had the Jon separation to really solidify what we've all been thinking - that the dragon queen wants Jon's dick. They are showing them getting closer which is going to make it even weirder when they find out that he really should be king by blood.
I also think that Arya has a plan up her sleeve, possibly with Sansa knowing, to take out Littlefinger. But she could also be keeping Sansa in the dark so she doesn't screw it up.
Just a lot of different ways things can play out before claiming what is "needed" and what isn't.
Counter pointA main problem is that the writers are acting like the land of Westeros isn't as large as it once was.....
These issues are more constrained by budget and the total remaining episode order that HBO allowed more than fans and book nerds are willing to give the writers and producers credit. With a visual production like this, you are always going to be limited by time when your source is based on a novel that has no such constraints. For this show, up until the actual book content ended, I'd guess that the pacing was as good as a fan could hope, to do the stories justice. Now, the producers have an outline on how to finish things, but without the detailed sourcing of books that don't exist, and a very real limit of # of episodes in which to finish this elaborate story that simply was far too open and loose at the point where a mere 13 episodes over 2 final seasons would be able to finish things adequately and maintain that same sauntering pace of the previous seasons. (well, 23 and more, I guess, if you go back to the previous 1.5 seasons or so?)I'm not a pro writer, never even tried it yet I could come up with more organic (and cheaper) ways to achieve what the scenes for this episode were to do.
I think it's a combo of bad pacing, lack of trust in the audience that created the need to keep them at the edge of the seat, even at the expense of the story itself and whatever factors that the show writers have to consider behind the scenes.
To make a gaming analogy, if I'm an inch away from a monitor with a magnifying glass and scream "aliasing!!!", that's on me, but it's not if it's the first thing I see at first glance from 10 ft away.
I'm not arguing the points you are making, I'm arguing that the show could have made these points much more natural to the story it's telling, closer to the standards it set in it's early seasons while still meeting it's budget and deadline goals.
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I was thinking out loud last night why Jon didn't drop by Winterfell to check on things during his recent back and forth trips to the South and again beyond the wall. I mean, dude's on a jetpack now so I'm not really believing his urgency.
The lingering shot of Jaime sinking, blacking out to credits, that's how early seasons killed characters. I'm not saying Jaime has to be dead, I'm saying either kill him or cut the scene out. If you keep him alive, add a 10 sec scene that makes his escape more plausible. Minimal impact on budgets and deadlines...
Arya & Sansa happen to have a brother whose abilities could help them resolve their disputes but let's force some "day of our lives" BS in instead...
How about how odd it was to see the Night King pull the dragon out at the end? After Jon fell in the water, we saw the undead leave. Jon pulled himself out as there were still some zombies left, and Benjen helped him out. (That alone felt so weird... especially that now Benjen is likely dead.) Then the Night King says, "Ugh, I left something behind! Turn around!"Even if I let the expedition as is slide, as a reasonable thing to do, there was no need to sink the dragon to have him pulled out with chains.
I don't think they would've survived for 3 months in the cold weather with very little food and water. They seemed pretty dire about it right at the onset.The travel distances and timing is very jarring--up until the Gendry run, send raven, Dany flies back beyond the wall bit last night, I was just chalking it up in my head to assuming that they are still taking 3 months to do this....just compressing that all into one episode.
Benjin must have thought the horse could get away faster with one person because we all know how fast white walkers travel.The only truly dumb point for me last night was when Jon was like 'Get on the horse Benjin' and he was like 'THERE IS NO TIME! GO NOW!' and then proceeded to just go get killed for no reason. He didn't fend off enemies who were on the cusp of getting Jon on the horse, he walked over to them as Jon had already ridden off. There was plenty of time for him to take the 3 seconds to jump up on the horse with Jon.
I know. my point was that up until that moment last night, I was comfortable just assuming they were going on these travels for 3 months and simply compressing it with the editing. But that would be impossible to assume that 3 months or even a week, let alone ~3 days would have passed from Gendry running back to the wall, crows flying to Dragonstand, and Danny flying back. Granted, Danny should be able to fly dragons within a day's time, right? But everything else seems inconceivable!I don't think they would've survived for 3 months in the cold weather with very little food and water. They seemed pretty dire about it right at the onset.
Yeah I didn't like that either. Sure it's another 250lbs but they only had to get away for a short distance before Benjin could have got off and let him take the horse. He's apparently survived out there for years alone so he'd be fine. I get that it's all about characters fulfilling their role and surviving solely to be there for specific acts (hold the door), but at least ones in the past have been rooted more in reality.The only truly dumb point for me last night was when Jon was like 'Get on the horse Benjin' and he was like 'THERE IS NO TIME! GO NOW!' and then proceeded to just go get killed for no reason. He didn't fend off enemies who were on the cusp of getting Jon on the horse, he walked over to them as Jon had already ridden off. There was plenty of time for him to take the 3 seconds to jump up on the horse with Jon.
Travel makes sense. Look at the map - According to Wikipedia a raven can fly about 50 miles an hour that means it would have taken the raven-network 30 hours to get from Eastwatch to Dragonstone. Then dragons can fly god knows what speed, but a 10 hour flight back seems more than reasonable.Counter point
Battles in season 1
Battles in Season 7
I think the need for money to do the big scenes necessitated the shortened season and the shortened seasons necessitates fast travel.
1.) Ya, The story of sending a Raven to Dany, then Dany having to ride the Dragons back -- thousands of miles of travel time....BEFORE they froze to death or fighting off the horde.The pace of this season is ruining an otherwise great show. Its just not in pace with what we are used to, but after last night its jumped the shark on even suspending belief of travel time.
Raven network - going maybe an hour each trading the message off between beaks.Sustained Flight? That's a special raven indeed.
To me, it looked like the chains were crafted out of ice... or at least they had a blue-ish tone to them that resembled icy chains. Although, that's why I said the Lich King did it better. Just stabbed a sword, and boom.. insta-Queen of the Frostbrood! (Was originally the mate of the leader of the Blue Dragonflight.)3.) Where did they get those fancy chains? The horde has been moving away from their main camp for a long time. So WHERE did they store those chains?.........AND......that ice was razor thin to carry any weight, much less a freakin' dragon. Sure you can say the NK froze it out, bu then at least show that!
No, because then the wights could have just climbed out of the lake onto their island (blocked by a celing of ice presumably). I was more concerned with why the NK didn't just refreeze the lake, nevermind the fact that thing should have been a solid brick of ice at that point.Was I the only one yelling at the Hound to use Gendry's hammer to break the ice?