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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,592
603
126
What was that item Daenerys dropped when the dothraki were coming?

Was that a ring her dothraki husband gave her or something?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,316
405
126
I wonder if she's going to use the Dothraki to help her rule. The thing about the Unsullied is that they're great soldiers, but they're not good fighters. If you replaced those Unsullied from that corridor fight with the Dothraki, I think the result would've been a lot different.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,250
3
0
I wonder if she's going to use the Dothraki to help her rule. The thing about the Unsullied is that they're great soldiers, but they're not good fighters. If you replaced those Unsullied from that corridor fight with the Dothraki, I think the result would've been a lot different.
except the writers wanted everyone in that corridor to get fucked up, or else they wouldn't have done it. They could have put the Mountain, the Hound, Jaime, Loras, Brienne, and all the other best fighters in that corridor and they would have made sure to fuck them up

Unsullied are unparalleled foot soldiers, I'd put my money on them vs. Dothraki on foot, its on horseback where Dothraki are to be feared, the Mongols of GRRM's universe. They'd be far more useful for destroying armies caught out in the field (like what happened to Stannis' army), harassing supply lines, etc.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,250
3
0
are they dothraki?
yup, but have to remember that most of the Dothraki abandoned her after Drogo was poisoned and became inept, and very few remained after he died, whether or not them finding her is a good or bad thing is yet to be seen

is stannis really dead?
since the show hasn't shied away from making sure certain characters are dead (generally their head comes off or is crushed/mutilated), I'm going to go ahead and say Brienne had second thoughts and thus they cut away on purpose before she lands the blow. I think Brienne wants revenge but I also think her loyalty is utmost and thus her duty to Sansa preempts that, I'm guessing she thinks she can use Stannis to help her somehow, although that does seem pretty out of place now that his army appears to be completely destroyed
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,137
191
106
The dorne scene was just stupid. Gee, lets poison the girl so she dies 500 yards from the dock. What could possibly go wrong. No one will suspect a thing.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
I was wondering if the end would be Jon opening his eyes as a wight. I mean, there is a certain character left out from the books who could be merged with that sort of situation. Although, my first guess was just that Melisandre was last shown to be at Castle Black (probably not a good place given Gilly's experiences), and she can always give the ol' resurrection thing a shot. We know that the other guy is the who who is capable of it, but maybe it'll work on someone like Jon... for... reasons?
King's blood. He has it.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
8
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The dorne scene was just stupid. Gee, lets poison the girl so she dies 500 yards from the dock. What could possibly go wrong. No one will suspect a thing.
Was there a shot that shows the ship wasn't very far away?

Anyway, even if they really were so close it's not like they're going to go back and risk being captured by the people who betrayed them. No, they'll make it to King's Landing with Trystane as their hostage, and there's a good chance Cersei will see that he's killed. By the time word gets back to Sunspear Ellaria and the Sand Snakes will probably be long gone.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
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The dorne scene was just stupid. Gee, lets poison the girl so she dies 500 yards from the dock. What could possibly go wrong. No one will suspect a thing.
She wants a war, and her King wasn't going to start it. So now she's forced the Lannisters to declare it. She wants it to be obvious it was her and not some random disease or sickness, and she's so obsessed I'm not sure that she cares if she dies.

If there's one thing consistent about this thread, a lot of you guys fail to consider the irrational human element. It exists in droves today, it all but ruled the world 600 years ago. :p
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
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except the writers wanted everyone in that corridor to get fucked up, or else they wouldn't have done it. They could have put the Mountain, the Hound, Jaime, Loras, Brienne, and all the other best fighters in that corridor and they would have made sure to fuck them up

Unsullied are unparalleled foot soldiers, I'd put my money on them vs. Dothraki on foot, its on horseback where Dothraki are to be feared, the Mongols of GRRM's universe. They'd be far more useful for destroying armies caught out in the field (like what happened to Stannis' army), harassing supply lines, etc.
From the book lore, the Unsullied are famous for holding off a massive Dothraki attack a couple hundred years ago, about 3000 of them held off 10,000 Dothraki if I recall, despite taking something like 80% losses. The defeated Kahl was so impressed he actually had his men ride in front of their ranks and cut off their pony tails out of respect.

The age-old solution to cavalry is pikemen, and the unsullied are amazing pikemen.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
I enjoyed that ep way better than most of this season. There were a few things I didn't see coming, like
Stannis going out or Jon dying.
The only thing I really didn't like was the whole Tyrion and crew debating about who's going to go get the queen. That was some really stupid stuff that reeked of being written by TV people. The idea that her Unsullied and Tyrion were the only people that could run the city was some TV we have actors and need roles for them writing. Such a let down from what I would expect from this show.
And how would you handle that situation? Grey Worm is basically the Chief of Staff of the Army and he was wounded. Tyrion and Grey Worm's girlfriend are cabinet members. Jorah and Daario are just Secret Service agents. The arrangement they made makes perfect since.
 

TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,563
7
81
For the folks who criticized the writing of the post dany fleeing scene and the last dorne scene - It was that obvious that those events haven't happened in the books (yet)... The events aren't that far fetched, but the clunky handling of them... The show is now off the GRRM laid play by play rails. I hope it doesn't suffer.

Not that I am critical of all the choices the show has made. Their editing of GRRM at times has been welcome. The Hardhome battle and such was so much better in the show. Also, Tyrion takes a lot longer to get to Dany in the books, and to be honest, I don't miss the parts of that storyline that were cut. Sam does leave for Old Town much earlier in the books, so at least that timing makes more sense.

I have two questions though that I haven't seen anyone discussing in sufficient importance/detail (IMO):

1) Why does Melissandre suddenly abandon Stannis? The last thing she says to him is more prophecy of him killing/burning Boltons and taking Winterfell. And thats after the big thaw she brings via sacrifice. Stannis dusts her off, clearly upset still over his daughter... and she leaves?? That makes her seem like a butthurt teenager. Then she sulks when she enters Castle Black? That isn't like her either. She is extremely showy and domineering it her religious certainty. I don't know what happened there but I'm not buying it. Poor presentation whatever the reasons.

2) Where the hell was Ghost when Jon was attacked? Let's be clear here that the show went to specific pains just a couple of weeks ago to show that Ghost's spidey sense went off in time to save Sam & Gilly, but he was unaware of danger to Jon in even more open and obvious area of the same place? The same place Ghost had intervened with the wight that tried to attack Mormont? Also remember Robb's wolf freaking out at the Red Wedding (where he was caged). Poor, poor job of continuity by the show runners. They have never written the Dire Wolves well into the show, and this is another example. FWIW, as depicted on the show, Ghost would have made a difference for Jon, possibly even saving him.

I am not scared of the show covering major events now, or cutting/merging extraneous characters and plotlines (there's a whole other minor one with Dany that theyve cut so far, and I also don't miss it at all). But I am worried about sloppy, TV quality writing and continuity. Show runners have to this point demonstrated they are better editors than writers. I dunno how that's gonna work now that they only have an outline...
 
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fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,452
29
91
I have two questions though that I haven't seen anyone discussing in sufficient importance/detail (IMO):

1) Why does Melissandre suddenly abandon Stannis? The last thing she says to him is more prophecy of him killing/burning Boltons and taking Winterfell. And thats after the big thaw she brings via sacrifice. Stannis dusts her off, clearly upset still over his daughter... and she leaves?? That makes her seem like a butthurt teenager. Then she sulks when she enters Castle Black? That isn't like her either. She is extremely showy and domineering it her religious certainty. I don't know what happened there but I'm not buying it. Poor presentation whatever the reasons.
Melissandre was there when one of Stannis' men told him that half of his men abandoned him and took the horses, right after the snowmelt scene where Stannis brushes her off. The reaction on her face turned from confident to that of surprise and then defeat when she heard the news.

Having half the army leave and taking all the horses despite everything probably shook her convictions. If not her convictions in the god itself, then possibly her belief that Stannis was the One.
 
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TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,563
7
81
I disagree. As per the show, her m.o. prior to that has always been that the Lord of Light's favor was all he needed. He had been in worse plights and she had just shook it off.

Such an event wouldn't have shaken her. That's not who and what she is. She is a religious zealot whose convictions are reinforced by her own magical powers.

It would taken a significant change to her visions to shake her faith in Stannis' ultimate victory. But the show didn't given us a glimpse of that epiphany. I am not one for spoon feeding, but give us some crumbs at least.

I am staying away from the book's handling of this storyline because the timelines and events aren't the same. I guess my point here is again - how do the show runners handle specific events that aren't scripted? Another example of poorly, IMO.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,250
3
0
From the book lore, the Unsullied are famous for holding off a massive Dothraki attack a couple hundred years ago, about 3000 of them held off 10,000 Dothraki if I recall, despite taking something like 80% losses. The defeated Kahl was so impressed he actually had his men ride in front of their ranks and cut off their pony tails out of respect.

The age-old solution to cavalry is pikemen, and the unsullied are amazing pikemen.
right, in a pitched battle I would place my bet on the Unsullied over the Dothraki as well, but that's arguably a waste of the Dothraki's strengths.



1) Why does Melissandre suddenly abandon Stannis? The last thing she says to him is more prophecy of him killing/burning Boltons and taking Winterfell. And thats after the big thaw she brings via sacrifice. Stannis dusts her off, clearly upset still over his daughter... and she leaves?? That makes her seem like a butthurt teenager. Then she sulks when she enters Castle Black? That isn't like her either. She is extremely showy and domineering it her religious certainty. I don't know what happened there but I'm not buying it. Poor presentation whatever the reasons.
I bought it. I interpreted it as her being horrified at what appears to be her "misreading the flames", and that she reinterpreted some other meaning that lead to her to abandon Stannis and return to Castle Black

2) Where the hell was Ghost when Jon was attacked? Let's be clear here that the show went to specific pains just a couple of weeks ago to show that Ghost's spidey sense went off in time to save Sam & Gilly, but he was unaware of danger to Jon in even more open and obvious area of the same place? The same place Ghost had intervened with the wight that tried to attack Mormont? Also remember Robb's wolf freaking out at the Red Wedding (where he was caged). Poor, poor job of continuity by the show runners. They have never written the Dire Wolves well into the show, and this is another example. FWIW, as depicted on the show, Ghost would have made a difference for Jon, possibly even saving him.
I agree, I think this is just another lazy handling of the dire wolves in the show. The book wolves make a lot more sense.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,452
29
91
Why did Arya lose her sight? BTW, Her killing scene was awesome. Made my wife gasp.

What about Sansa and Reek, what did they jump into? That was a good 50' drop, did they live?
Arya was not yet a Faceless person when she used one of the faces. The Faceless Man says before she loses her sight that to someone who is not Faceless, the faces are poison.

The fact that she saw her own face on the body suggests that she's going to die or something, since a person needs to be dead for their face to be available for use on another body.
 

TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,563
7
81
By the way, did everyone pick up on who that was carrying cersei? Felt like it should have been obvious, but it didn't trigger much response.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,452
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By the way, did everyone pick up on who that was carrying cersei? Felt like it should have been obvious, but it didn't trigger much response.
The Mountain.

The guy who first greeted Cersei and who said he needed to look at her feet was the doctor who had also been working on the body of the Mountain, which you see lying covered in a sheet in previous episodes and sometimes shaking violently.

That's why the Mountain's eyes and skin through the helmet are so messed-up looking. He probably "died" months ago and has been experimented on this whole time.
 

TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,563
7
81
Yes, that was Qyburn, the so called "half maester". He was tossed out of the Citadel at Oldtown before he finished his chain. His experiments in things like necromancy are not approved of by the Citadel Maesters. He is loyal to Cersei because she has given him a place. FWIW, old fart Maester Pycelle doesn't like him either.

The Mountain that Rides is back... As a Kingsguard.

I found it odd that Tommen wasn't there to receive his mom. Guess that's a scene for next season.
 
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fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,452
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I bought it. I interpreted it as her being horrified at what appears to be her "misreading the flames", and that she reinterpreted some other meaning that lead to her to abandon Stannis and return to Castle Black
So her whole Stannis thing is that the Lord of Light favors king's blood, right?

Here's my theory:

The kings of Westeros have always been Targaryen, despite the latest Targaryen (the Mad King) being crazy and getting overthrown by Robert Baratheon.

King's blood is thus most likely Targaryen blood, not Baratheon.

The Targaryens are also the keepers of the dragons that breathe fire. It's only logical that the Lord of Light and the dragons are aligned.

Since the removal of the Targaryens and the coming of the White Walkers (the latter probably mobilizing massively after centuries of hiding because they now sense that the throne of Fire/Light/Targaryens is weak), the Lord of Light (LoL) probably wants to bring the Targaryens back into power.

But first the Baratheons need to be removed since they feel they have the true claim to the throne. So the LoL uses Stannis as a pawn to get the Baratheons to die out in a dose of epic irony.

- Robert Baratheon dies.

- Stannis Baratheon kills his own brother, Renly Baratheon, at the urging of Melissandra.

- Stannis Baratheon kills his own daughter, at the urging of Melissandra.

- Stannis Baratheon "kills himself" by sending his woefully-outnumbered and unprepared army into a suicide mission. Stannis is a very experienced war commander but the fact that he still sent his men into such an obviously-hopeless situation shows just how badly he got played by the LoL - either in belief of the "prophecy" (which was fabricated by the LoL) or inflation of his own ego. The most delicious irony is that he doesn't die by the hand of a Bolton (even though two tried and failed), but by that of Brienne, who kills him to avenge the death of... drumroll... Renly, his own brother which he had killed.

- Melissandra senses king's blood in John Snow, but he dies and all his blood is spilled, so he might have been a Baratheon, possibly one of Robert Baratheon's bastard sons who he entrusted to Eddard Stark's care.

- Gendry is the only other known person with Baratheon blood still left alive at this point, and he has joined the Brotherhood without Banners that worship the LoL.

So now that Baratheon blood - and more importantly - Baratheon forces, are all wiped out, there is a clearing for a Targaryen with fire-breathing dragons to come back in and reclaim the throne. The LoL played Stannis and used the zealot Melissandra to do so.

Gendry is still out there but he's a bastard, has no forces under him, and has a tenuous claim to the throne. Despite this, the LoL still keeps him close since he's now joined with a group that worships the LoL ("keep your enemies closer...")

And the Lord of Light just happens to be "LoL".
 
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TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,563
7
81
That's a fun theory, but whose blood was used to make the shadow that killed Renly? That was most certainly blood magic.

One last rant from me, hopefully, for this morning. Doesn't involve anyone on here:

I had to explain to neighbors this week that The Wall wasn't built to keep the Wildlings out. So much for one of GRRMs best writing devices - the very real world distortion of history over time.

I cannot decide whom I should blame for that one.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,452
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That's a fun theory, but whose blood was used to make the shadow that killed Renly? That was most certainly blood magic.

One last rant from me, hopefully, for this morning. Doesn't involve anyone on here:

I had to explain to neighbors this week that The Wall wasn't built to keep the Wildlings out. So much for one of GRRMs best writing devices - the very real world distortion of history over time.

I cannot decide whom I should blame for that one.
Shadows don't need king's blood to be created. They just need the blood and the life-energy of the person who wanted it created. That's why Melissandra doesn't create a ton of shadow babies because she tells Stannis that doing so would drain Stannis' life force. The whole king's blood thing is a complete mis-direction. Melissandra convinces everyone, even herself, that king's blood is the key to victory. But king's blood turns out to be the key to the downfall of the entire bloodline, as the LoL intended.
 
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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,561
8
0
gendry is no longer with the brotherhood. Davos freed him and he set off on a boat without knowing how to sail. he could be on an island with a volleyball for all we know.

Maybe we will never know what happened to him. People die mysteriously all the time.


Dany gonna get raped by alot of dothraki me thinks unless drogon comes flying down and she magically has a new army.



The mountains eyes looked crazy. I wonder what he looks like without the mask.



Didnt Drogo come from royalty in dothraki culture? didnt he have a brother that commanded a big army?
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,952
31
91
And now comes the blurring between TV and Book. I want to discuss theories in this thread since it is most active but I can't remember if some of the theories discussed after the last book could be plausible in the TV version of the story.
 

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