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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Feb 6, 2007
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Right. My point was, it's ironic to me how people flipped their shit over the Sansa scene (a depiction of what unfortunately happened often) but I haven't seen people flipping out over a little girl being burnt alive, which one could argue is many times worse than what Sansa had to endure.
There was also a contingent of people who swore that Sansa wasn't raped. No one is claiming Shireen wasn't burnt alive against her will. So there's not as much to argue about. Is anyone really going to stand up in defense of child burning?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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I'm really jaded towards violence in these kind of entertainment things and tend to agree with Alan Moore about how rape should be thrown in as we don't live in Victorian times and shouldn't pretend rape doesn't happen while glorifying other types of violence. I just was head scratching a bit when you said "the writers of this show go to rape as a plot device, and sometimes just as background noise." as if it's not one of those what else could it be? Seems to me it either serves the story or it's just background. I could be wrong, which is why I asked. I personally enjoy expanding my thoughts with other viewpoints.
again, it's the repeated use of it, against like 90% of the female characters on the show.

if kids were being burned at the stake with the same frequency, you'd probably see more complaints against it.
 

Jodell88

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
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Good point, although I don't think the survival odds have been great for anyone in the series.

Except for Tyrion:

- Survived Lysa's trial by combat after being framed for Bran's attempted murder
- Survived an encounter with the extremely violent hill people
- Survived the subsequent battle he was thrust into, somehow
- Survived the Battle of Blackwater while being a major target
- Survived a literal death sentence after being framed for Joffrey's murder
- Survived slave traders wanting to kill and dismember him
- Survived a fighting pit trial where he would have almost certainly been killed were he not randomly freed
- Survived Dany who was contemplating killing him for being a Lannister (okay, this was probably not going to actually happen)
- Survived an all out assault by sons of the harpy thus far, even killing one himself, and it looks like he'll make it out of the arena alive

Dude is clearly invincible, I don't think he has much to worry about.
Suffered the emotional wound of the one he loved was a traitor all along. :'(

That broke him for a while. He possibly still is broken.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
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again, it's the repeated use of it, against like 90% of the female characters on the show.

if kids were being burned at the stake with the same frequency, you'd probably see more complaints against it.
Fair enough.. how many people have been raped in the show? I'm honestly drawing a blank on how many.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,786
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www.bing.com
again, it's the repeated use of it, against like 90% of the female characters on the show.

if kids were being burned at the stake with the same frequency, you'd probably see more complaints against it.
uhh, if we're going to complain about something based on the frequency of it happening, I think death via sword is the runaway winnar.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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again, it's the repeated use of it, against like 90% of the female characters on the show.

if kids were being burned at the stake with the same frequency, you'd probably see more complaints against it.
90% Really? Hasn't it been closer to 3 vs. dozens of female characters? When you make a mountain out of a mole hill it really detracts from the point of view.

You make the argument that the show over uses it (it's possible), but you extend the argument so much it seems there's a point they are making, but.... It's not like all female characters are weak in the show, there are some very strong female characters, and weak ones.

The show spans years of time, a few rapes isn't excessive. There's roughly 50 hours of show time, again, not like they focus on it. I bet there's less than 20 rapey minutes out of all that.

Kinda sounds like the real world eh? Ya know, where sometimes women are raped and more likely weaker (not just physically) ones?

90% of the men who die in the show are murdered. That's probably far closer to the truth, and perhaps equally pointless.
 

Ichigo

Platinum Member
Sep 1, 2005
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rape is fine as a plot device, like anything else... but I think the writers of this show go a bit overboard with it.

like, how many female characters in this show haven't been either raped or threatened with sexual violence? I'm struggling to think of anyone other than Olenna and Margaery.
Okay so we've gone from "so many female characters were raped" to "not that many but they've definitely all been threatened with sexual violence".

Can you name a character, regardless of gender, who hasn't been threatened with some kind of violence? It's just such a pointless rhetorical question. It's a violent world and no one is immune.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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Good point, although I don't think the survival odds have been great for anyone in the series.

Except for Tyrion:

- Survived Lysa's trial by combat after being framed for Bran's attempted murder
- Survived an encounter with the extremely violent hill people
- Survived the subsequent battle he was thrust into, somehow
- Survived the Battle of Blackwater while being a major target
- Survived a literal death sentence after being framed for Joffrey's murder
- Survived slave traders wanting to kill and dismember him
- Survived a fighting pit trial where he would have almost certainly been killed were he not randomly freed
- Survived Dany who was contemplating killing him for being a Lannister (okay, this was probably not going to actually happen)
- Survived an all out assault by sons of the harpy thus far, even killing one himself, and it looks like he'll make it out of the arena alive

Dude is clearly invincible, I don't think he has much to worry about.
He survived TWO threats at the Battle of Blackwater:
1) He was forcibly put on the front lines as a valuable target exactly like when his father wanted him killed with the Hill people. He survived.
2) His sister paid for an assassination attempt that was to take place in the middle of it all. He survived.
 
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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Okay so we've gone from "so many female characters were raped" to "not that many but they've definitely all been threatened with sexual violence".

Can you name a character, regardless of gender, who hasn't been threatened with some kind of violence? It's just such a pointless rhetorical question. It's a violent world and no one is immune.
I think there's generally a difference in most people's mind between over the top rampant violence versus rape, which is a much more sensitive topic (especially since rape victims are more likely to be alive and watching the show than victims of swords to the head)... fwiw, the one statistic I was able to pull up documented 50 rapes across 47 episodes. and it's especially wtf-inspiring when the writers add in new rape scenes that weren't in the books, like Jamie and Cersei in the church last season.

I don't mean to be the chief "depictions of rape are bad" spokesman -- honestly, as a gay man, the plight of sexual violence against women isn't really at the forefront of my mind and I didn't even notice some of the rapes until I had them pointed out to me -- but I've got female friends who are fan of the show and I can sorta see where they're coming from when they say it's a little problematic.
 
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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
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I say the kingdoms can exhaust themselves warring with each other and when they're tuckered out and the dust settles that king brother of the viper can swoop in and run things and the half man can advise him. Dany will be his wench, so they can race around on freakin' dragons on weekends. That's what I'm rooting for. :colbert:
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
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I think there's generally a difference in most people's mind between over the top rampant violence versus rape, which is a much more sensitive topic (especially since rape victims are more likely to be alive and watching the show than victims of swords to the head)... fwiw, the one statistic I was able to pull up documented 50 rapes across 47 episodes. and it's especially wtf-inspiring when the writers add in new rape scenes that weren't in the books, like Jamie and Cersei in the church last season.

I don't mean to be the chief "depictions of rape are bad" spokesman -- honestly, as a gay man, the plight of sexual violence against women isn't really at the forefront of my mind and I didn't even notice some of the rapes until I had them pointed out to me -- but I've got female friends who are fan of the show and I can sorta see where they're coming from when they say it's a little problematic.
Link? 50 rapes across 47 eps seems really high. I honestly don't remember anywhere near that many.
 

Ichigo

Platinum Member
Sep 1, 2005
2,159
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and there's probably 9823423 thousand starving people in 47 episodes (and there are plenty of starving people due to warzones IRL)

is the show also insensitive to refugees? or maybe they just don't have the public voice that anti-sexual violence advocates do.

if any of the rape scenes were played for titillation or conveyed anything besides the cruelty and horror of the situation I'd be more concerned but I've yet to see a well defined complaint

over-used? tell me about the appropriate limit. lack of agency? i'm pretty sure 99% of people in a feudal society have no real agency in a modern context.

you're right in that the issue is it causes an uncomfortable feeling in some people. ultimately I think that's every individual's personal responsibility to deal with though. maybe they shouldn't watch it.
 

Jodell88

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
9,491
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I think there's generally a difference in most people's mind between over the top rampant violence versus rape, which is a much more sensitive topic (especially since rape victims are more likely to be alive and watching the show than victims of swords to the head)... fwiw, the one statistic I was able to pull up documented 50 rapes across 47 episodes. and it's especially wtf-inspiring when the writers add in new rape scenes that weren't in the books, like Jamie and Cersei in the church last season.

I don't mean to be the chief "depictions of rape are bad" spokesman -- honestly, as a gay man, the plight of sexual violence against women isn't really at the forefront of my mind and I didn't even notice some of the rapes until I had them pointed out to me -- but I've got female friends who are fan of the show and I can sorta see where they're coming from when they say it's a little problematic.
This is what happens since time immortal. Women raped, men murdered. If a show showed did the opposite they'll be a backlash of the women being murdered and not of the men being raped.

I guess the best thing to do is no rape, just kill everyone instead.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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fwiw, the one statistic I was able to pull up documented 50 rapes across 47 episodes.
There's 3 main rape scenes, Sansa/Ramsay, Jaime/Cersei and Drogo/Dany. I'm sure there's a couple others I don't recall, but 50? Mind sharing that list? That seems like a lot and I really wonder what's included.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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There's 3 main rape scenes, Sansa/Ramsay, Jaime/Cersei and Drogo/Dany. I'm sure there's a couple others I don't recall, but 50? Mind sharing that list? That seems like a lot and I really wonder what's included.
There's also the men of the Night's Watch who killed Craster and took over Craster's Keep and started raping his daughter-wives. That was pretty disturbingly portrayed. The Witch who kills Drogo mentioned being raped, but it wasn't shown (just her being saved from a likely rape). Sansa was saved by the Hound from an attempted rape at the hands of angry rioters back in Season 2. But yeah, I'm having a hard time thinking of 50 different instances of rape on the show...
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
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That's a fair list for the most part. The only thing I take issue with is the way they phrase it. A lot of the rapes they're claiming weren't shown in the show. A lot of them were told to our characters without any backing. The rapes of Caster's wives were only told to us, and there's some doubt to it. Not saying it was or wasn't rape, just we don't know much of hte facts.

Here's the breakdown for the lazy..
Rapes/Attempted Rapes that Appear In Both Works: 34
Victims in Both Works: 24


  • Elia Martell: raped and murdered by Gregor Clegane (described only)
  • Many Lhazareen women: raped by the Dothraki including
    • Mirri Maz Duur: raped by the Dothraki multiple times (Dany stops one of the rapes mid-attack)
  • Craster’s daughters: raped by Clubfoot Karl, Dirk, Ollo Lophand and other former members of the Night’s Watch
  • Brienne: attempted rape by Locke/members of Vargo Hoat’s crew (Jaime distracts him and gets his hand cut off)
  • Tysha: gang-raped by Tywin Lannister’s men; Tyrion is forced to have sex with her after the others are done (described only)
  • Rhaella Targaryen: raped by King Aerys while Jaime Lannister listened
Rapes/Attempted Rapes that Appear in the Show Only: 16
Victims in Show Only: 5 (see below section re: Craster’s daughters)


  • Daenerys Targaryen: Raped by Drogo on their wedding night.
  • Cersei Lannister: Raped by her brother Jaime next to their son’s corpse. (NOTE: According to the actors, the producer, the director and the production crew, this is not a rape scene. Their intent was to walk it right up to the non-con line and pull back. The Game of Thrones wikia does not categorize it as rape, citing authorial intent. Given that it’s damn clearly a rape scene, I am categorizing it as such despite the authorial intent.)
  • Sansa Stark: raped by Ramsay Snow (transferred from Jeyne Poole in the book), attempted rape by mob
  • Meera: attempted rape by Karl
  • Craster’s daughters: raped by Karl’s men when Jon Snow and his men come to rescue them. (In the books there is never any retaliation against Karl’s men for what they did, although some are killed by someone accompanying Bran. We can assume that had Jon Snow and his men gone back to retaliate against the traitors, this is what they would have seen, but it doesn’t appear in the books.)
  • Innkeeper’s daughter: Polliver and other Lannister men are attempting rape when Sandor and Arya arrive. They release her at that time. Sandor kills the Lannister men and the girl escapes. (In the books there does not appear to be a rape attempt.)
I only put the ones that were either in the show or both the show and the book to avoid any book spoilers.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
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There's 3 main rape scenes, Sansa/Ramsay, Jaime/Cersei and Drogo/Dany. I'm sure there's a couple others I don't recall, but 50? Mind sharing that list? That seems like a lot and I really wonder what's included.
- Sansa was almost raped in KL when Joffrey's group was mobbed
- Brienne was almost raped when captured by the Boltons(?)
- Joffrey was raping some of Littlefinger's girls (crossbowed one as well if I recall correctly)
- Craster.
- Gilly was almost raped by some of the NW

Just off the top of my head. It is a fairly common plot device.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
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I should also read my own quote.. I meant to speak of Caster raping his wives.. not the Night's Watch.. that was no doubt rape..
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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There's also the men of the Night's Watch who killed Craster and took over Craster's Keep and started raping his daughter-wives. That was pretty disturbingly portrayed. The Witch who kills Drogo mentioned being raped, but it wasn't shown (just her being saved from a likely rape). Sansa was saved by the Hound from an attempted rape at the hands of angry rioters back in Season 2. But yeah, I'm having a hard time thinking of 50 different instances of rape on the show...
I knew there was some I wasn't thinking about, and that's not so minor. I don't recall how much it showed vs. implied, like there was a few scenes with the main Night's Watch traitor talking with rape as a backdrop, but no specific rape scenes. Yeah, that was a pretty disturbing portrayal, for sure.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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We are reacting to the emotions behind the behaviors. Rape, Murder, Consensual sex with one's husband during your wedding night: the point is how the plot makes us FEEL about what's going on. It's despite frequency and despite accepted gender-roles that we get upset.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
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- Sansa was almost raped in KL when Joffrey's group was mobbed
- Brienne was almost raped when captured by the Boltons(?)
- Joffrey was raping some of Littlefinger's girls (crossbowed one as well if I recall correctly)
- Craster.
- Gilly was almost raped by some of the NW

Just off the top of my head. It is a fairly common plot device.
Only one of those was rape (Crastor), if anything you would classify the others as rescues not rapes, which kind of defeats the argument that women being raped on the show is bad. Because stopping rape is good...

Joffrey didn't rape anyone, he tortured and murdered them. The sex was paid for and agreed on, it just didn't happen.

It's one thing to say the plot device is overused, but I get a SJW vibe when people complain.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
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We are reacting to the emotions behind the behaviors. Rape, Murder, Consensual sex with one's husband during your wedding night: the point is how the plot makes us FEEL about what's going on. It's despite frequency and despite accepted gender-roles that we get upset.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

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