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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Feb 6, 2007
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If the Queen Mother and de facto ruling regent can be held and punished by the Faith Militant then the throne has no power anymore and the Sparrows are now the rulers. It doesn't matter if Lord Kevan (he is now Hand of the King, which gives him the title Lord) likes her or not, he can't allow this to happen.
Or he can allow it to happen, then say "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE" and crush them with the might of the crown. But even if he does move to save her, he can't keep her around King's Landing any more, but there's no way he can convince Tommen to give the order to send her back to Casterly Rock. And with Cersei manipulating Tommen, Kevan is right back where he started, taking orders from someone he despises (Hand of the King or not). Does family loyalty really trump personal avarice in the Lannister family?
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
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Or he can allow it to happen, then say "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE" and crush them with the might of the crown. But even if he does move to save her, he can't keep her around King's Landing any more, but there's no way he can convince Tommen to give the order to send her back to Casterly Rock. And with Cersei manipulating Tommen, Kevan is right back where he started, taking orders from someone he despises (Hand of the King or not). Does family loyalty really trump personal avarice in the Lannister family?
Yup.

Let the nuts fight it out in the corner then clean up what's left. Kevan certainly doesn't want Cersie around, and probably doesn't give a flying fuck about the Tyrells.

They are painting Cersei's only way out to confess, she already knows what will happen because she asked what if Margaery confessed. Yes, yes, "work continues" but I don't see how a zombie-mountain will free her. Is he really going to break down a wall and pluck her from the cell?

Even Qyburn, probably her closest ally, suggested she do it.
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
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I think the real issue is that the new king is a pussy. I am hoping we see a little Joffrey in him soon
 

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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The fast typical zombie stuff was dumb, but I like the white walkers(is that what they are called?). I halfway expected a thriller dance off at the end when head zombie raised his arm. I also like how the zombie army just happens to arrive as soon as Jon Snow shows up, impeccable timing
 

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,517
309
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I never thought I would want Joffery back, the fanatics proved me wrong. I would have loved to see his reaction to these events. Of course if he was still alive the fanatics would have never gained power in the first place. I would also like to see Joffery in one of their cells.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
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He already doesn't like Cersei, and if he holds her responsible for fucking his son up and turning him into a lunatic fanatic, why would he intervene on her behalf in a trial that could see her killed? He's got no love for the Tyrells either, so there's no incentive for him to save Margaery. Maybe if he shares his brother's passion for protecting the family, but Tywin was fine with killing Tyrion when he had a chance, and that was his own son, not a nephew/niece who may have ruined his own son's chance to bear heirs. I can see Kevan taking the "honorable" side and trying to save his flesh and blood, but it seems to make a lot more sense that he'd take the opportunity to say "fuck you very much Cersei" and not bother.
The question is, how much does Kevan care about and want to help Tommen? If he's interested in supporting his rule at all he's going to need to take care of both Cersei and Margaery because Tommen is going to be a useless broken mess until he does.

It would seem like Kevan does respect Tommen and his authority as king because he said that he would become hand at his behest if he personally requested it. But it's possible that this was more about slighting Cersei than supporting Tommen.

Tywin actually didn't want to kill Tyrion, the whole trial was really done in order to blackmail Jaime into agreeing to leave the Kingsguard and rule at Castlerly Rock. Tyrion ruined this plan by demanding a trial by combat. Not that I think Tywin would have really cared one way or the other if Tyrion did get killed.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,752
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Yes! I miss Varys! Was hoping he would pop up last episode.

KT
i wonder how the new hand of the king (Lord kevin?) is going to clean up Cersai's mess w/the zealots?

he seems to have a backbone like his brother, Tywin.

obvious: rescind the zealots authority and de-militarize them
He already doesn't like Cersei, and if he holds her responsible for fucking his son up and turning him into a lunatic fanatic, why would he intervene on her behalf in a trial that could see her killed? He's got no love for the Tyrells either, so there's no incentive for him to save Margaery. Maybe if he shares his brother's passion for protecting the family, but Tywin was fine with killing Tyrion when he had a chance, and that was his own son, not a nephew/niece who may have ruined his own son's chance to bear heirs. I can see Kevan taking the "honorable" side and trying to save his flesh and blood, but it seems to make a lot more sense that he'd take the opportunity to say "fuck you very much Cersei" and not bother.
I'm personally interested on seeing how Kevan will flesh out as things have went off the rails.

It might be Civil War in Kings Landing.

He does seem a lot like Tywin, and clearly snubbed Cersai in the first council meeting they had and left.

He might be running the place soon, I have a feeling he might not care a care too much about Tommen, with the knowledge he has and just take power in his name like Cersai has been doing a long time now.

If nothing else he might just want to keep Tommen alive to retain power like she did.

I miss Varys myself.
 
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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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The question is, how much does Kevan care about and want to help Tommen? If he's interested in supporting his rule at all he's going to need to take care of both Cersei and Margaery because Tommen is going to be a useless broken mess until he does.

It would seem like Kevan does respect Tommen and his authority as king because he said that he would become hand at his behest if he personally requested it. But it's possible that this was more about slighting Cersei than supporting Tommen.
We know very little about him, he seems more like Tywin, honest and tough. He said he would support the king if the king asked, the king did ask and Kevan came. It's also painfully clear he has 0 respect for Cersei.

Based on that, he won't lift a finger for Cersei, like someone else said, if he does that he's back to square 1. He supports the king and probably likes being Hand, so he'll do what he can to help the king, as long as it doesn't involve her.

I don't see that plan ending well for Kevan.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,333
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Yup.
Yes, yes, "work continues" but I don't see how a zombie-mountain will free her. Is he really going to break down a wall and pluck her from the cell?
As seen from a previous season an accused can accept the court's judgment or choose trial by combat and name a champion.

No one really knows how good a student of necromancy Qyburn is yet.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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We know very little about him, he seems more like Tywin, honest and tough. He said he would support the king if the king asked, the king did ask and Kevan came. It's also painfully clear he has 0 respect for Cersei.

Based on that, he won't lift a finger for Cersei, like someone else said, if he does that he's back to square 1. He supports the king and probably likes being Hand, so he'll do what he can to help the king, as long as it doesn't involve her.

I don't see that plan ending well for Kevan.
Also he's refused to visit Cersei. If he planned to help her he probably would have done so. I can see him making an attempt to rescue Margery and Loras though, either politically or militarily, as per the Tyrell and Lannister alliance. Either way Cersei's days as a power broker are done. A point which is becoming deliciously clear with every smack of that nun's ladle. :) As Kevan said, the title of "queen mother" means less with each passing day, her only real power was her influence over Tommen. If Kevan can keep her away from Tommen long enough to turn Tommen away from her influence, she's done.

The one wildcard is that Maester's zombie-mountain project, but I'm not sure how much use that would be to Cersei. Even brought back to the life the mountain can still be hacked to death, he might kill a few dozen religious fanatics before going down. They might use him to try and assasinate the high sparrow. Given that he prides himelf on being a "man of the people", I imagine he makes many public appearances, with perhaps a light enough guard for zombie mountain and friends to break through and kill him.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
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As seen from a previous season an accused can accept the court's judgment or choose trial by combat and name a champion.

No one really knows how good a student of necromancy Qyburn is yet.
Trial by combat is legal under the crown, they've established religious trials follow different rules. Trial by combat may not be allowed, given that their procedure thus far seems to involve forcing the victim to confess their sins.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,333
342
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Trial by combat is legal under the crown, they've established religious trials follow different rules. Trial by combat may not be allowed, given that their procedure thus far seems to involve forcing the victim to confess their sins.
We haven't seen how the faith militant handles their trials yet (if they even bother with them) but "Trial by Combat" could be a fairly universal tradition in that world.

We don't know if they were disbanded before because their trials or punishments were especially cruel or if they were just the general fanatical doucheNozzles (imo) they appear to be.


.....
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,029
452
126
The fast typical zombie stuff was dumb, but I like the white walkers(is that what they are called?). I halfway expected a thriller dance off at the end when head zombie raised his arm. I also like how the zombie army just happens to arrive as soon as Jon Snow shows up, impeccable timing
I think they launched their attack when they did because Jon was taking away wildlings they intended to add to their armies.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
6
81
We know very little about him, he seems more like Tywin, honest and tough. He said he would support the king if the king asked, the king did ask and Kevan came. It's also painfully clear he has 0 respect for Cersei.

Based on that, he won't lift a finger for Cersei, like someone else said, if he does that he's back to square 1. He supports the king and probably likes being Hand, so he'll do what he can to help the king, as long as it doesn't involve her.

I don't see that plan ending well for Kevan.
If Tommen ever comes to his senses, assuming he doesn't end up killing himself/starving himself to death first (and I guess that's an unfortunate possibility, especially if things get even worse for him.. we all know Cersei's kids all have a bad omen hanging over them) he's going to demand Kevan does something about Cersei and Margaery. If he refuses he won't keep him around as hand. There's no way.

He could try pulling the same crap Cersei did in pretending to care and try helping without actually doing so but he seems to have more self respect and honor than that.

It wouldn't necessarily be that much worse for him. First of all regardless of what he thinks of the Tyrells he wouldn't necessarily see Margaery as a threat. I don't think she's shown ambitions to influence politics beyond simply being queen and getting to have the king's children. And Kevan is going to feel that the king needs a wife and needs heirs, and there's no way Tommen will accept substituting her for someone else, not while she's alive and possibly not for a long while after. Better to just get her back.

As for Cersei, yes she was undermining Tommen's authority and wouldn't want to let Kevan interfere with this, but if he works with Tommen to help him he might appeal to him more and have more direct influence. Kevan, along with Margaery, may actually succeed in getting Cersei sent back to Casterly Rock with a much stronger argument in it being for her own safety. It's also possible the Faith Militant would accept that as part of a plea bargain, since their judgement is clearly biased based on how much power the person has.
 
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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
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Trial by combat is legal under the crown, they've established religious trials follow different rules. Trial by combat may not be allowed, given that their procedure thus far seems to involve forcing the victim to confess their sins.
Mother's mercy is what the sparrow called it and said the punishment depended on the crime and, uhh, basically how much they believed in the confession. I took that as you probably wouldn't be killed, and might get set free. Or not.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
As for Cersei, yes she was undermining Tommen's authority and wouldn't want to let Kevan interfere with this, but if he works with Tommen to help him he might appeal to him more and have more direct influence. Kevan, along with Margaery, may actually succeed in getting Cersei sent back to Casterly Rock with a much stronger argument in it being for her own safety. It's also possible the Faith Militant would accept that as part of a plea bargain, since their judgement is clearly biased based on how much power the person has.
This makes the most sense for me, Margaery/Loras are saved because their accuser meets an untimely end, Cersei gets fucked but confesses and is sent to Casterly Rock.

But that doesn't account for the mountain, so something is wrong.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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Game of Thrones visual effects editor mauled and killed by a lion

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lion-attack-u-s-tourist-katherine-chappell-worked-game-thrones-n368946

Katherine Chappell, "was very much loved and shared her love for life with those she met," her mom Mary, father Jon and siblings Jennifer, Lauren and Ryan said in a Facebook.

Known as Katie, the 29-year-old will be mourned at a memorial service in her hometown of Rye, New York, on Saturday.

Chappell had been living in the Canadian city of Vancouver since 2013, where she worked as a visual effects editor.


Witnesses told park officials that the windows were down, Simpson added. He said there are numerous signs warning visitors to keep them up.
car windows wide open, photographing a lion 3 feet away
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
6
81
We haven't seen how the faith militant handles their trials yet (if they even bother with them) but "Trial by Combat" could be a fairly universal tradition in that world.
Perhaps, it's religious nonsense (and specifically tied to the Faith of the Seven) that people are using to validate the absurdity of trial by combat in the first place.

Then again, the whole system overwhelmingly benefits the side that has more money and is a miscarriage of justice very likely determined by the wealthier and more powerful class, using religion as a mere means to sell it to the masses. That's the kind of thing that the sparrows staunchly oppose and would easily see through.

If they don't allow it I do hope we get to hear their dismissal.

We don't know if they were disbanded before because their trials or punishments were especially cruel or if they were just the general fanatical doucheNozzles (imo) they appear to be.
That or the same thing as now, them fucking with the wrong people.

I think they launched their attack when they did because Jon was taking away wildlings they intended to add to their armies.
They had to have realized that one of the White Walkers was killed by now (the one Sam got). Given this, it's possible that they realized that it was due to dragonglass, and that they'd surmise that it came in from the south (even if it actually didn't). Seeing the ships approach from the south they could have gone in to prevent them from being armed with more dragonglass. And it does look like the one Jon fought was searching for it.

The bigger question is why they didn't bother to wipe out Hardhome sooner, since there was basically no risk to them doing so. It's possible that they couldn't travel this far south or close to the sea until it got cold enough, or that the weather has enhanced their magic. Or maybe they were waiting for their forces to be large enough. Maybe there was some special preparation or condition that was needed in order for them to start the initial mass killing of those villagers. It's also possible that they didn't want to launch a full scale offensive against the wildlings in the first place but do now that they feel threatened.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
6
81
This makes the most sense for me, Margaery/Loras are saved because their accuser meets an untimely end, Cersei gets fucked but confesses and is sent to Casterly Rock.

But that doesn't account for the mountain, so something is wrong.
I said this earlier but I'd be perfectly happy with the mountain just causing wide scale mayhem in one of GoT's signature massive battles ;p
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Perhaps, it's religious nonsense (and specifically tied to the Faith of the Seven) that people are using to validate the absurdity of trial by combat in the first place.

Then again, the whole system overwhelmingly benefits the side that has more money and is a miscarriage of justice very likely determined by the wealthier and more powerful class, using religion as a mere means to sell it to the masses. That's the kind of thing that the sparrows staunchly oppose and would easily see through.
Sorry, all I heard was...

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical aquatic ceremony! You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!!

I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! :awe:
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,727
411
126
Sorry, all I heard was...

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical aquatic ceremony! You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!!

I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! :awe:
lol
 

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