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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
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He said "Queen". I think you can assume that he is aware that she is no longer the queen (hasn't been since at least when Joffrey took the throne). And it's just subtle enough to make people question/suspect some sort of cliffhanger. He's taking Tyrion to Mereen to see Dany.
He might not have heard about the wedding yet, but really, just look at it this way. Who is his Queen? It's obviously Dany.

I assume this plot will backfire, he lost her trust. Even if she wants the imp, even badly, it wouldn't make her trust him again. Then there's the whole part about punishing him because he's a Lannister, I doubt she will do that. Now if he had a direct hand in the killing of her family she'd be pissed, but we don't know that do we? Maybe Ser Friendzone knows more, I doubt it, this screams of desperation.

Tyrion will be at her side advising her within 2 episodes, imo. Since we're guessing into the next few episodes let me see if I can setup the scene in the north (next post).
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
In the North we have:

Jon+Nights Watch.
Will they leave the wall to help the realm as a whole? Did the "shield that defends the realm" speech impact policy? I can't see them staying at the wall for long. Jon knows what's coming if he stays and he knows he can't hold them back.

Stannis+army (how big is it?)

Boltons+men, doesn't seem large enough to call an army if they don't think they have enough to hold the north from itself. Just about everyone has the Boltons in their sights except Brienne and Pod. I think it's obvious they won't hold for long. The people don't want them there, the forces in the area don't want them there, they have no external support.

Breinne+Pod, has Stannis in her sights and she's about to run into him. Despite being a relatively small side plot this has huge implications. Either B+P story is about to end, or Stannis is. They have invested a lot of time on Brienne, to have her killed off trying to avenge Renly would seem odd. Stannis' end may be near.

Sansa+LF, I think she's here for the longer game. I bet she waits until the fallout from above to settle before acting. I think her long game goal after being convinced by LF to stop sitting on the sidelines is to take out Ramsay and take lead of WF. However, that's probably also LFs plan...

Bonus: no one is talking about the new red priestess. I bet she plays into the Ser Friendzone+Tyrion arc somewhere. Her noticing Tyrion say "we're going to see the savior", or whatever the exact line is, is important.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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In the North we have:

Jon+Nights Watch.
Will they leave the wall to help the realm as a whole? Did the "shield that defends the realm" speech impact policy? I can't see them staying at the wall for long. Jon knows what's coming if he stays and he knows he can't hold them back.
I struggle to believe Jon would head South. He needs to rebuild the defenses, not just at Castle Black, but along the Wall, to make sure that the White Walkers don't have easy access to the South. He's not going to abandon that responsibility just for revenge.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,243
110
116
I struggle to believe Jon would head South. He needs to rebuild the defenses, not just at Castle Black, but along the Wall, to make sure that the White Walkers don't have easy access to the South. He's not going to abandon that responsibility just for revenge.
Agreed. I think Jon will stay, but he will convince the wildlings to go and support Stannis.

Sad to say, but it was pretty nice not to have any Dany this week. Her story has been such a drag. Hopefully we do not see her again until Tyrion is thrown at her feet.

KT
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
86
It was more about his admission of the cowardice of which he had been accused (by Samwell at the election). Jon realized that he could not show mercy once he admitted that or else he would encourage cowardice (people would just run then beg mercy).
It helped that Janos was Jon's enemy. Being insubordinate in front of everyone would only open the ranks for questioning. Jon was able to show he had what it takes to doll out he justice required to be Lord Commander. He also impressed Alister (IMO), but not being petty and making him dig the shit pit. He, instead, named him to a position he was worthy of.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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Nope, it just proves people don't pay attention to details. :colbert:
To be fair, my wife and I were slightly confused. With the first cut, I was pretty sure it was Winterfell (and it was), but then they cut back to Littlefinger and Sansa at Moat Cailin, so I was like, "oh, I guess they're at Moat Cailin then..." while wondering why on Earth they needed to rebuild it. It doesn't help that the establishing shots show off grey castles in drab settings with shitty weather; in stills, the differences are obvious, but with fairly rapid cuts and two interweaving timelines, it can certainly be confusing.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I struggle to believe Jon would head South. He needs to rebuild the defenses, not just at Castle Black, but along the Wall, to make sure that the White Walkers don't have easy access to the South. He's not going to abandon that responsibility just for revenge.
This makes the most sense to me, he's marching on with his duties. Sure, he tried to banish Ser Usedtobeonthekingsguard to the keep in ruins, but he DOES need that keep.

He knows he can't stop them, so I guess he'll do what he can to slow them down. Does he even know the dragon glass is the way to kill them? I guess it's safe to assume he does, but they only had a few pieces of it, not enough to arm the Night's Watch.

Jon's heading south or he's going to die to white walkers, it's just a matter of when. He knows exactly what "winter is coming" means.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
It helped that Janos was Jon's enemy. Being insubordinate in front of everyone would only open the ranks for questioning. Jon was able to show he had what it takes to doll out he justice required to be Lord Commander. He also impressed Alister (IMO), but not being petty and making him dig the shit pit. He, instead, named him to a position he was worthy of.
I'm pretty sure Jon gained an ally in that move. Maybe a bit too strong a word, but respect at least.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
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To be fair, my wife and I were slightly confused. With the first cut, I was pretty sure it was Winterfell (and it was), but then they cut back to Littlefinger and Sansa at Moat Cailin, so I was like, "oh, I guess they're at Moat Cailin then..." while wondering why on Earth they needed to rebuild it. It doesn't help that the establishing shots show off grey castles in drab settings with shitty weather; in stills, the differences are obvious, but with fairly rapid cuts and two interweaving timelines, it can certainly be confusing.
The real issue is that they skipped the entire travel from Moat Cailin to Winterfell, which is no quick stroll. In the time it took Brienne to give a speech to Pod, LF and Sansa had traveled a few hundred leagues. Had they simply shown them traveling or had her say "home at last" or some shit, there would be no issue.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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Does he even know the dragon glass is the way to kill them? I guess it's safe to assume he does, but they only had a few pieces of it, not enough to arm the Night's Watch.
I don't think anyone knows that, even Sam. You'd think they'd have put two and two together by now, but Sam immediately dropped the dagger when he killed the White Walker, and in his subsequent tellings of the story, he seems to omit the crucial detail of "dragon glass killed it straight away." If they knew, they should haul ass back North of the Wall and collect as much of it as they can find.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
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I don't think anyone knows that, even Sam. You'd think they'd have put two and two together by now, but Sam immediately dropped the dagger when he killed the White Walker, and in his subsequent tellings of the story, he seems to omit the crucial detail of "dragon glass killed it straight away." If they knew, they should haul ass back North of the Wall and collect as much of it as they can find.
If I recall, didn't Sam say something about it being of import in the old books?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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The real issue is that they skipped the entire travel from Moat Cailin to Winterfell, which is no quick stroll. In the time it took Brienne to give a speech to Pod, LF and Sansa had traveled a few hundred leagues. Had they simply shown them traveling or had her say "home at last" or some shit, there would be no issue.
Yeah, although I hate it when shows interject that sort of bogus "we have arrived at Winterfell" nonsense that no one actually says and only exists for the audience. But one additional shot of them arriving at a completely different castle than Moat Cailin couldn't have hurt.
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,368
4
81
I think it's funny how Sansa is going to end up marrying the one guy who is even more of a psycho than Joffrey. Poor girl.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I don't think anyone knows that, even Sam. You'd think they'd have put two and two together by now, but Sam immediately dropped the dagger when he killed the White Walker, and in his subsequent tellings of the story, he seems to omit the crucial detail of "dragon glass killed it straight away." If they knew, they should haul ass back North of the Wall and collect as much of it as they can find.
You're right, he dropped it. Even if it was out of fear I think he would have realized after the fact, but that didn't seem to happen. Maybe he makes the connection later, but that doesn't change the fact Jon is aware of exactly how bad the situation is.

He knows the WW are coming and he doesn't really know how to stop them. Why would he stay at the wall forever? Sure he's honest/loyal to his vows, but I don't think he's stupid enough to sacrifice himself for no gain just to maintain his vow, which may not be exactly what he thought in the first place.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,245
1,203
136
4) Jon Snow is a badass, though I half expected him to let the guy live. I guess nobody will second guess his orders anymore. I still wonder what Stannis is up to, I can't imagine he's going to leave like he said and just let Jon Snow be.
From the moment the guy started with the insubordination, I recalled the first episode where Jon watches as Ned executes the deserted Night's Watch member. Somehow, I knew exactly how the scene would go with the mercy plea, the admission of cowardice, the "will Jon do it?" suspense, and the decapitation. It just seemed right that he would do exactly the same thing Ned Stark would do.

5) Tyrion I'm guessing the "queen" Jorah referred to was Danaerys, and he's betting on that putting him back in her good graces. Doubt it. He's making a mistake. I'm looking forward to see what Danaerys will do with Tyrion, hopefully he works his way into being her advisor. That'd be awesome. If Jorah takes him to Cersei instead, I'll be not only surprised, but also disappointed.
The important thing is that Tyrion doesn't know which "queen" Jorah is referring to...so he would probably be shitting himself.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,522
18,073
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I also thought they ended up in Moat Cailin... gonna have to rewatch that.

Weird editing.
Know another thng weird about the editing?

epidoe 4.~5 or so until 5.2: Queen sidewaysface snuggling up to Tommen, trying to make sure she's still a viable queen...no real discussion anywhere about being betrothed, right?

opening of episode 5.3: getting hitched. I was like...whoa, wtf are we missing here? Cersei all this time bitching about sidewaysface snuggling up to her boy, trying to tempt him, then bam! doing the nasty.

the whole winterfell/cailain thing was confusing. I only ever saw cailain, knew brienne and poderick were talking about them heading to winterfell, but I was pretty sure that we never saw them leave cailain before all of the action that was shown. I thought the theon bit was still in the same place. Yes, I knew what Brienne was saying, but I never saw that actually happen.
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
16
81
How awesome would it be if Sansa reveals armor under her sleeve to Roose at the wedding? Out of character, I know, just wishful thinking.

Stannis is to march soon so he might interfere with the wedding. Assuming Stannis does kill all Boltons (except Michael) it doesn't necessarily bode well for Sansa either, not with Melisandre around.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
I think Little Finger just wants Sansa in place so he could do his scheme...she doesnt need to actually kill one or more Boltons. If the Boltons have an "accident", she will legitimately be in control of the North and he will legitimately have the Vale. Although I think this is all in vain since Stannis is on his way there. If there is any justice in this universe, Theon will somehow kill Ramsay...after a few weeks of torture.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I think Little Finger just wants Sansa in place so he could do his scheme...she doesnt need to actually kill one or more Boltons. If the Boltons have an "accident", she will legitimately be in control of the North and he will legitimately have the Vale. Although I think this is all in vain since Stannis is on his way there. If there is any justice in this universe, Theon will somehow kill Ramsay...after a few weeks of torture.
I'm pegging Sansa as Ramsay's killer, maybe indirectly, but I think she will have a hand in it.

Still nothing from the red priestess in the north. She's been hunting king's blood for a couple seasons now and has been mostly quiet this season.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,727
412
126
not really sure how anyone was confused with where Sansa is, that was clear as fing day that they were in winterfell
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,481
3,804
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I'm almost beginning to wonder if Theon is smarter or at least more sane than everyone around him still thinks he is. It almost seems like he's listening in on all the conversations and playing the fool, not content just to kill the guy that sliced his penis but taking it all in and carefully waiting for just the right moment to raze the whole bolton power base down in revenge or to prove himself to sister and daddy once and for all. I dunno. It just reminds me of when Snow thought being an attendant was the worse thing ever, when in truth he was always surrounded by the most powerful men and listening in on all the plans and seeing the system in action.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I'm almost beginning to wonder if Theon is smarter or at least more sane than everyone around him still thinks he is. It almost seems like he's listening in on all the conversations and playing the fool, not content just to kill the guy that sliced his penis but taking it all in and carefully waiting for just the right moment to raze the whole bolton power base down in revenge or to prove himself to sister and daddy once and for all. I dunno. It just reminds me of when Snow thought being an attendant was the worse thing ever, when in truth he was always surrounded by the most powerful men and listening in on all the plans and seeing the system in action.
Possibly, but Theon was never that smart or forward thinking. He had his chance at freedom when his Sister tried to save him, he's fully Stockholm syndrome'd up. All the shaking, the nervous ticks... He's mentally mushy, BUT you're 100% right on one thing, he is listening and noticing things.
 

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