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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,086
65
91
The only way to build a castle in a swamp is to keep rebuilding it on top of itself until it hits bottom, generally takes 3 castles.
Actually, the third one will burn down, fall down then sink into the swamp.

But the fourth one will stay up, and you'll have the strongest castle in these isles. :D
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,261
68
86
They're in Winterfell.
So how did they get to Winterfell? Did they magically transport there?

This is Moat Cailin from when Theon accepted its surrender. You have to click on the top right.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Moat_Cailin

Notice there are 3 distinct structures. It's surrounded by a swamp.


Now this is Sansa overlooking *MOAT CAILIN* in this episode. Notice the same 3 structures, the place surrounded by a swamp?


http://thenewdaughter.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-high-sparrow/

Now compare that to every screenshot of Winterfell...


http://www.movieloci.com/3192-Winter-is-Coming?snapshot=38006

THEY ARE NOT IN WINTERFELL! Winterfell is on top of a hill, surrounded by hills. Not in the middle of a swamp. Furthermore, its structure is completely different.
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,648
2
0
So how did they get to Winterfell? Did they magically transport there?

This is Moat Cailin from when Theon accepted its surrender. You have to click on the top right.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Moat_Cailin

Notice there are 3 distinct structures. It's surrounded by a swamp.


Now this is Sansa overlooking *MOAT CAILIN* in this episode. Notice the same 3 structures, the place surrounded by a swamp?


http://thenewdaughter.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-high-sparrow/

Now compare that to every screenshot of Winterfell...


http://www.movieloci.com/3192-Winter-is-Coming?snapshot=38006

THEY ARE NOT IN WINTERFELL! Winterfell is on top of a hill, surrounded by hills. Not in the middle of a swamp. Furthermore, its structure is completely different.
the boltons have been in winterfell since immediately after roose named ramsay a bolton. there was 1 brief scene of not much consequence set just outside moat cailin. the scene prior to that with the boltons was winterfell, and the scene after that with the boltons was winterfell.

watch the 1st season and compare the buildings. it's winterfell.

theon torched the place and the boltons are rebuilding. it's winterfell.

there are 2 flayed bodies hanging exactly where theon hung the 2 burned children. it's winterfell.

"welcome home, lady stark." it's winterfell.

is this the new "syrio is alive"?
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,879
701
126
So how did they get to Winterfell? Did they magically transport there?

This is Moat Cailin from when Theon accepted its surrender. You have to click on the top right.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Moat_Cailin

Notice there are 3 distinct structures. It's surrounded by a swamp.


Now this is Sansa overlooking *MOAT CAILIN* in this episode. Notice the same 3 structures, the place surrounded by a swamp?


http://thenewdaughter.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-high-sparrow/

Now compare that to every screenshot of Winterfell...


http://www.movieloci.com/3192-Winter-is-Coming?snapshot=38006

THEY ARE NOT IN WINTERFELL! Winterfell is on top of a hill, surrounded by hills. Not in the middle of a swamp. Furthermore, its structure is completely different.
No one is arguing that Sansa/Petyr and Brienne/Pod didn't overlook Moat Cailin earlier in the episode. In your attempts to prove that it wasn't Winterfell that they were in later, you have inadvertently shown otherwise: Right after Cersei and Margaery speak in that garden place it cuts to men carrying flayed man banners into Winterfell before cutting to Reek/Theon in Winterfell. Sansa and Reek see eachother when she arrives. Theon/Reek was never on the road. Clearly, they arrive at Winterfell by way of Moat Cailin.

It's OK to be wrong. I thought it was Moat Cailin too. I had to re-watch to be sure.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,243
110
116
the boltons have been in winterfell since immediately after roose named ramsay a bolton. there was 1 brief scene of not much consequence set just outside moat cailin. the scene prior to that with the boltons was winterfell, and the scene after that with the boltons was winterfell.

watch the 1st season and compare the buildings. it's winterfell.

theon torched the place and the boltons are rebuilding. it's winterfell.

there are 2 flayed bodies hanging exactly where theon hung the 2 burned children. it's winterfell.

"welcome home, lady stark." it's winterfell.

is this the new "syrio is alive"?
Yep. Even Stanis said they were there last episode and the hanging bodies made it very clear it was Winterfell.

KT
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,879
701
126
Brienne and Poddrick specifically discuss that they are going miles out of their way to go around Moat Cailin and that it doesn't matter if they lose sight of Petyr and Sansa because she knows where they are going. Sansa and Petyr discussed Winterfell in no uncertain terms:
Petyr first said "Home."
Sansa responded about "Winterfell" being held by the Boltons.
Petyr began saying "Winterfell" too.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Brienne and Poddrick specifically discuss that they are going miles out of their way to go around Moat Cailin and that it doesn't matter if they lose sight of Petyr and Sansa because she knows where they are going. Sansa and Petyr discussed Winterfell in no uncertain terms:
Petyr first said "Home."
Sansa responded about "Winterfell" being held by the Boltons.
Petyr began saying "Winterfell" too.
Scene outside Moat Cailin with Sansa/LF talking about marriage, scene with Sansa/LF entering Moat Cailin's bridge, next scene with them shows them entering a city. Moat Cailin right? No, Winterfell.

I'm sure you can see why it was confusing.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Scene outside Moat Cailin with Sansa/LF talking about marriage, scene with Sansa/LF entering Moat Cailin's bridge, next scene with them shows them entering a city. Moat Cailin right? No, Winterfell.

I'm sure you can see why it was confusing.
Yes.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,879
701
126
Scene outside Moat Cailin with Sansa/LF talking about marriage, scene with Sansa/LF entering Moat Cailin's bridge, next scene with them shows them entering a city. Moat Cailin right? No, Winterfell.

I'm sure you can see why it was confusing.
Incorrect. Pod and Brienne specifically discussed how they were going to get through Moat Cailin while watching Sansa and Petyr go through. Brienne said in no uncertain terms that they were going to go around, despite Pod's warning that they will lose sight as it will take them miles away. Brienne said that losing sight didn't matter because she knew where they were going. She's going around Moat Cailin specifically to avoid going through it, so she's obviously not talking about a specific place within Moat Cailin.

They arrive at Winterfell with Reek/Theon. As established earlier in the episode, this is where Theon/Reek was:


That is Winterfell. It is settled.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,977
2,512
126
It was confusing. If we are confused I would bet that most of their viewers are as well. It could have been cleared up with a single line of dialog from Littlefinger saying 'We won't be stopping in Moat Cailin, we will ride straight through to Winterfell, you will finally be home by dinner' or something.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,243
110
116
I don't know, I did not find it confusing at all. Was surprised it was a discussion when I checked the thread after watching. /shrug

KT
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,368
4
81
I also thought they ended up in Moat Cailin... gonna have to rewatch that.

Weird editing.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
86
It was confusing. If we are confused I would bet that most of their viewers are as well. It could have been cleared up with a single line of dialog from Littlefinger saying 'We won't be stopping in Moat Cailin, we will ride straight through to Winterfell, you will finally be home by dinner' or something.
Except, it is quite a long way to Winterfell from Moat Cailin. I believe the distance is similar to the distance Castle Black is from Winterfell. IIRC, Moat Cailin is at the neck (start of "the North") and Winterfell is smack in the middle.

The show hasn't really shown much of the scale of the continent Westeros resides on, which is pretty bad.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,879
701
126
Except, it is quite a long way to Winterfell from Moat Cailin. I believe the distance is similar to the distance Castle Black is from Winterfell. IIRC, Moat Cailin is at the neck (start of "the North") and Winterfell is smack in the middle.

The show hasn't really shown much of the scale of the continent Westeros resides on, which is pretty bad.
They show it in every intro but you probably skip past it.

Anyway, Pod and Brienne camped overnight and discussed Renly, Pod's training to be a knight, etc, so it definitely wasn't "home by dinner." I think a place name fading in and out would have been better than ham-fisted dialog.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
That is Winterfell. It is settled.
Calm your tits, everything I said was correct.

I said you can understand why people would be confused, not that it wasn't Winterfell. Clearly I was wrong.

There are several "avid" watchers here who were confused, I'm sure others who don't watch every episode multiple times are as well. You know that saying proof is in the pudding? You're looking at it. It was confusing.

Apparently the Winterfell we see today isn't the same shooting location as the past, I expect that's a big part of it. The "return to Winterfell" scene should have been more prominent, there's zip in that pic you linked that makes me think Winterfell (again, I'm not arguing it isn't, just how people can be confused).

http://hbowatch.com/where-was-game-of-thrones-filmed/
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Except, it is quite a long way to Winterfell from Moat Cailin. I believe the distance is similar to the distance Castle Black is from Winterfell. IIRC, Moat Cailin is at the neck (start of "the North") and Winterfell is smack in the middle.

The show hasn't really shown much of the scale of the continent Westeros resides on, which is pretty bad.
In general they do OK with it, traveling between cities usually takes an episode. Leave in one, arrive in the next. Roose explained the expanse of the north just when he gave Theon his name, 400 miles this way, 300 that, etc. What they haven't done is City A->City B with just a couple scenes separating them.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,879
701
126
Calm your tits, everything I said was correct.

I said you can understand why people would be confused, not that it wasn't Winterfell. Clearly I was wrong.

There are several "avid" watchers here who were confused, I'm sure others who don't watch every episode multiple times are as well. You know that saying proof is in the pudding? You're looking at it. It was confusing.

Apparently the Winterfell we see today isn't the same shooting location as the past, I expect that's a big part of it. The "return to Winterfell" scene should have been more prominent, there's zip in that pic you linked that makes me think Winterfell (again, I'm not arguing it isn't, just how people can be confused).

http://hbowatch.com/where-was-game-of-thrones-filmed/
Yeah. I was confused too. When I say "clear" I only mean it is clear in hindsight after reviewing the technical details. Initially, I assumed Winterfell and my brother assumed Moat Cailin until we saw it argued both ways here and just watched the relevant scenes again. Arriving so soon and not showing an exterior shot again certainly added to the confusion.

That shot of Winterfell was before Petyr/Littlefinger and Sansa even got to Moat Cailin but they make it clear that Reek/Theon is there. It's not Moat Cailin.
 
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Xonim

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
1,131
0
0
Some thoughts:

1) Arya: I feel like half the episode was Arya sweeping floors. Loved the bit with her sword, but I have to wonder how she doesn't expect Jaqen to find out about it. I imagine that will come back to bite her at some point.

2) Sansa: I was only half-paying attention for this part, but am I correct in understanding that the reason for Sansa to be married to Ramsey is for her to eliminate him? Not sure Sansa is capable, though maybe he'll croak after he's heard how much she whines. Ramsey looked sincere when he said he wouldn't hurt her, so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually didn't, especially since Roose will probably make sure he doesn't. Ramsey seems to be finding his way and really seems to want Roose's approval, and hurting Sansa wouldn't be a quick way to getting it.

3) Podrick's line about not learning anything if Brienne didn't snap at him was kinda awesome. Also good to find out about Brienne and the ball, and makes me wish Renley hadn't died so early on. He was an interesting character. Now that he's going to be trained, I bet Podrick will either save or avenge Brienne at some point before the series is over.

4) Jon Snow is a badass, though I half expected him to let the guy live. I guess nobody will second guess his orders anymore. I still wonder what Stannis is up to, I can't imagine he's going to leave like he said and just let Jon Snow be.

5) Tyrion I'm guessing the "queen" Jorah referred to was Danaerys, and he's betting on that putting him back in her good graces. Doubt it. He's making a mistake. I'm looking forward to see what Danaerys will do with Tyrion, hopefully he works his way into being her advisor. That'd be awesome. If Jorah takes him to Cersei instead, I'll be not only surprised, but also disappointed.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,550
666
126
Was it though? Maybe he knows being exiled from both camps that this is his way back to his homeland.
He said "Queen". I think you can assume that he is aware that she is no longer the queen (hasn't been since at least when Joffrey took the throne). And it's just subtle enough to make people question/suspect some sort of cliffhanger. He's taking Tyrion to Mereen to see Dany.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,550
666
126
So how did they get to Winterfell? Did they magically transport there?

This is Moat Cailin from when Theon accepted its surrender. You have to click on the top right.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Moat_Cailin

Notice there are 3 distinct structures. It's surrounded by a swamp.


Now this is Sansa overlooking *MOAT CAILIN* in this episode. Notice the same 3 structures, the place surrounded by a swamp?


http://thenewdaughter.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-high-sparrow/

Now compare that to every screenshot of Winterfell...


http://www.movieloci.com/3192-Winter-is-Coming?snapshot=38006

THEY ARE NOT IN WINTERFELL! Winterfell is on top of a hill, surrounded by hills. Not in the middle of a swamp. Furthermore, its structure is completely different.
No one is debating that they showed Moat Cailin. They did. And it was pretty obvious given the dialogue of the Pod/Brienne and "welcome home Lady Stark" scenes coupled with shots showing Bolton men entering Winterfell that the end of Sansa/LF's journey was shown in Winterfell.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
86
He said "Queen". I think you can assume that he is aware that she is no longer the queen (hasn't been since at least when Joffrey took the throne). And it's just subtle enough to make people question/suspect some sort of cliffhanger. He's taking Tyrion to Mereen to see Dany.
Tyrion doesn't know that though, which is why it was stated as such. It builds tension for Tyrion's character. He doesn't know Sir Friendzone other than by name and he does know Varys is always harping about how the queen is looking for him. It works because Jorah sees Dany as the true queen and Tyrion doesn't know how far out of power Cersai has fallen.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,550
666
126
Tyrion doesn't know that though, which is why it was stated as such. It builds tension for Tyrion's character. He doesn't know Sir Friendzone other than by name and he does know Varys is always harping about how the queen is looking for him. It works because Jorah sees Dany as the true queen and Tyrion doesn't know how far out of power Cersai has fallen.
Exactly. Between Varys begging him to stay in the box, and the beheaded dwarf from last episode they've really hammered that point home. Almost too much I'd argue. And Tyrion is aware that Jorah was spying on Dany for Robert earlier as well. That is, if he makes the connection it's Jorah abducting him.

The viewer, however, should be pretty clear where he's taking Tyrion.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,879
701
126
Some thoughts:
...
4) Jon Snow is a badass, though I half expected him to let the guy live. I guess nobody will second guess his orders anymore. I still wonder what Stannis is up to, I can't imagine he's going to leave like he said and just let Jon Snow be.
It was more about his admission of the cowardice of which he had been accused (by Samwell at the election). Jon realized that he could not show mercy once he admitted that or else he would encourage cowardice (people would just run then beg mercy).
 

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