Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
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Trolls going to troll. :\

So, will Tyrion end up with Dany now? I'm fairly certain that's where Verys is going and where Arya might end up. The power vacuum in Westeros will be deafening, Balish is going to have a field day.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
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Thank you

KT techs and a bunch of other people left - hope they come back.
I really do think this thread is better with people who don't want to know about the books participating. Personally, I don't mind people mentioning small details about the differences (as long as they don't spoil the show) BUT I'm willing to give that up for more people in the thread.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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Trolls going to troll. :\

So, will Tyrion end up with Dany now? I'm fairly certain that's where Verys is going and where Arya might end up. The power vacuum in Westeros will be deafening, Balish is going to have a field day.

baelish is gathering power quietly, but stannis has done it loudly
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
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I really do think this thread is better with people who don't want to know about the books participating. Personally, I don't mind people mentioning small details about the differences (as long as they don't spoil the show) BUT I'm willing to give that up for more people in the thread.

You know what, I watch the TV show and read the books too. I started out watching the entire season 1-3 on DVD, then started reading the books and just about caught up to season 4 as it aired. I'm now slightly ahead of where season 4 left off in my reading.

But I do my best not to spoil anything for those only watching the TV series. It's really not that hard to keep the two separate and it's simple courtesy to not douche-up your thread.
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
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baelish is gathering power quietly, but stannis has done it loudly

Could Baelish have built up his power and influence without being quiet given his non-noble birth? It would be doubtful.

After 4 seasons, the Lannister/Baratheon grip on power is probably at its lowest point. Fearsome Tywin who was running things like a king is dead. His heirs Cersei/Jamie have to pick things up. Could Jamie persuade Cersei to pardon Tyrion?
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
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Could Baelish have built up his power and influence without being quiet given his non-noble birth? It would be doubtful.

After 4 seasons, the Lannister/Baratheon grip on power is probably at its lowest point. Fearsome Tywin who was running things like a king is dead. His heirs Cersei/Jamie have to pick things up. Could Jamie persuade Cersei to pardon Tyrion?

Cersei is levels of stupid I don't think I can comprehend. She's willing to kill her kid brother, even after the dude that saved them once with his mind and may well have done it again, because she doesn't like that he talked mean to her. If she can't overlook her feelings and realize both the need to overcome physical impossibility and the possession of functional stupidity required for Tyrion to be the killer... well Let's just say I don't think her lover-brother is going to rise to pseudo-king. In the game of thrones Cersei is a pawn that thinks she's a rook because she keeps on moving in a strait line... somehow she just got converted to a quean and she doesn't even comprehend the concept of moving more than one space at a time, much less lateral threats.

The real Dragons they've been building up to are golden: we didn't see the Iron Bank in the intro throughout the season for the one or two times it was on screen, no doubt it was a portent of things to come. I think Cersei will reign both capriciously and with an iron fist, spend up even more on the credit cards, and then not even make minimum payments because she's too stupid to know what Tywin did:

"One stone crumbles and another takes its place and the temple holds its form for a thousand years or more. And that's what the Iron Bank is, a temple. We all live in its shadow and almost none of us know it. You can't run from them, you can't cheat them, you can't sway them with excuses. If you owe them money and you don't want to crumble yourself, you pay it back."

George Martin is a fan of history. The bolton flag looks amazingly like that of 1506-1701 spanish flag, so he's drawing in Spanish history. The spanish government went bankrupt repeatedly in the late 1500s early 1600s leading to the eventual ouster of the ruler (the real ruler, Duke of Lerma, not the king Philip III).
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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I know I'm way late to the party, but I finally caught up and watched the finale yesterday. Excellent ending to the season. Mance telling Snow that he actually doesn't want to conquer south of the wall, but in fact wants to hide behind the wall is chilling, it should tell the audience about the horror that is coming down.....

Very good ending overall, though I hate the hound being gone from the show, he's one of my favorite characters. :(
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,439
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So who else is annoyed with the cast changes. They changed the mountain a few times and each time I was like who is that?

The Mountain had maybe one line before this season, and we saw his face maybe twice. He was usually in a helmet, and his primary participation in the series has been as a subject of discussion. Recasting him isn't all that bothersome.

Tommen is only weird when you go back to the earlier season and see the actor now playing Tommen, playing that Lannister cousin that was killed. Would never have bothered me if I don't rewatch episodes several times.

Daario is very obnoxious though.


-----

One thing I forgot to mention about the final episode--when Jaimie leads Tyrion up to those steps to escape. At that moment, I was suddenly convinced that Jaimie was leading Tyrion to his death. The earlier scene where Cersei wants him back, and Jaimie's response to Tyrion's "Thank you, for my life" (Jamie just looks away and says, get going). ...the ominous camera pause on the door at the top of those steps.

I think this was all a bit intentional, the way the show has just set you up to pissed-off all the time. Well played. Imagine if the show ended on that door, without Tyrion going back (Again, I thought he realized it was a trap, and decided to flee another way, and wasn't off to kill the assholes), and we had to wait a year to see what happens. :D
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
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One thing I forgot to mention about the final episode--when Jaimie leads Tyrion up to those steps to escape. At that moment, I was suddenly convinced that Jaimie was leading Tyrion to his death. The earlier scene where Cersei wants him back, and Jaimie's response to Tyrion's "Thank you, for my life" (Jamie just looks away and says, get going). ...the ominous camera pause on the door at the top of those steps.

I think this was all a bit intentional, the way the show has just set you up to pissed-off all the time. Well played. Imagine if the show ended on that door, without Tyrion going back (Again, I thought he realized it was a trap, and decided to flee another way, and wasn't off to kill the assholes), and we had to wait a year to see what happens. :D

My thoughts on this, the whole thing was set up by Tywin.
"Do you think I would actually let them execute you? You're a Lannister."
(may have messed up the quote)
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
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He was very clearly groveling when he said that.

Was he? If Tyrion was executed, Jamie stays a Kingsguard and Tywin has no heir to the Rock. It would be some twist of fate if Tyrion killed the person ultimately responsible for his "escape".
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
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Was he? If Tyrion was executed, Jamie stays a Kingsguard and Tywin has no heir to the Rock. It would be some twist of fate if Tyrion killed the person ultimately responsible for his "escape".

Exactly.
Right now the only people (that we know of) that know the whole truth are Jaime and Varys.
It would also explain why Varys got on the ship with him once the bells started ringing.
Not knowing exactly what Tyrion had done, the bells signified it was something bad enough that Varys needed to escape as well to save his own head.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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Before Tywin was shot:
"You're my son"

After Tywin was shot:
"You're no son of mine"

The more likely explanation was Tywin was saying what he felt was the best path to getting Tyrion to not kill him.

What was the reasoning for Tywin asking Tyrion who freed him if he already knew?

Is it a love affair some have with Tywin? I don't get it...
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,861
68
91
www.bing.com
Not a snowballs chance in hell of Tywin ordering Tyrion's escape.

Why would he need to? He could already do whatever he wanted, he could wave his hand a create a pardon.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,439
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He was very clearly groveling when he said that.

Yeah, I took that as Tywin being more concerned with the bolt aimed at his chest.

However, it is somewhat out of character for him to want to kill Tyrion. He's had that chance to do that more than once throughout Tyrion's life, but always regarded him as a son. He seemed honestly willing to let Tyrion go to the wall to serve his sentence. I think it's certainly possible that Tywin helped to arrange Tyrion's escape (Varys: "What have you done?"), but that comment was more to regain trust, I think, in order to get the upper hand in that moment.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,439
28,989
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Exactly.
Right now the only people (that we know of) that know the whole truth are Jaime and Varys.
It would also explain why Varys got on the ship with him once the bells started ringing.
Not knowing exactly what Tyrion had done, the bells signified it was something bad enough that Varys needed to escape as well to save his own head
.


yeah, that's a good point.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
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Before Tywin was shot:
"You're my son"

After Tywin was shot:
"You're no son of mine"

The more likely explanation was Tywin was saying what he felt was the best path to getting Tyrion to not kill him.

What was the reasoning for Tywin asking Tyrion who freed him if he already knew?

Is it a love affair some have with Tywin? I don't get it...

Well what father is going to tell his kid he loves him after he shoots him twice and knows he's dead? Especially given Tywin's strong beliefs in family. You're right in that the question of who let him out indicates Tywin likely wasn't behind this escape plot. But he still could have fully intended to get Tyrion out of it somehow given his heir situation.
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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Well what father is going to tell his kid he loves him after he shoots him twice and knows he's dead? You're right in that the question of who let him out indicates Tywin likely wasn't behind this escape plot. But he still could have fully intended to get Tyrion out of it somehow given his heir situation.

Everything is possible. For all we know Tywin hired a faceless man to be his doppelganger sitting on the pot knowing that Tyrion might be out for revenge. That's totally what a master strategist would do. It's possible.


Remember when Tywin placed Tyrion in the vanguard in the battle against Robb Stark's army? To think Tywin would never allow someone to kill Tyrion is just not true.

Tywin has tried to kill Tyrion. Cersei has tried to kill Tyrion.

There is little reason to believe Tywin would not let the execution proceed, and even if so, there is every reason to believe he will try to craft another scenario where Tyrion will die by "accident".
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
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Cersei is a different story. She's a self-serving bitch that only espouses the virtues of family loyalty when its convenient.

What we do know is that Tywin wants Jamie to leave the KG so he can be his heir. He so happens to have a deal with Jamie that if Tyrion keeps his life he will get just that. Tywin also stated that he thought about killing Tyrion when he was a baby but didn't because he was a Lannister and his son. Granted maybe all of Tyrion's antics over his life have changed Tywin's mind in that regard. But keeping Tyrion alive gives Tywin the one thing he wants most - a legacy in Jamie taking over the family.

And if Tywin let's Tyrion die, I think he realizes he loses any chance of Jamie leaving.
 
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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,214
659
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Yeah, I took that as Tywin being more concerned with the bolt aimed at his chest.

However, it is somewhat out of character for him to want to kill Tyrion. He's had that chance to do that more than once throughout Tyrion's life, but always regarded him as a son. He seemed honestly willing to let Tyrion go to the wall to serve his sentence. I think it's certainly possible that Tywin helped to arrange Tyrion's escape (Varys: "What have you done?"), but that comment was more to regain trust, I think, in order to get the upper hand in that moment.

Tywin had said during that moment that he had in fact been trying to kill Tyrion for a long time, but Tyrion kept surviving. He mentioned something about respecting him for that if nothing else. As stated by others, the only reason Tywin said he would have spared him and he was his son is because there was a crossbow pointed at him. If he really wanted to spare him he prob wouldn't have stood trial. He would have gotten Cersei to recant the charges or just made the trail go another way.

It's a bit odd how people are applying their own ideas of family love to them. Cersi hated Tyrion because she blamed him for the death of their mother, they said that a few times in this season alone and I'm pretty sure even more throughout the series. Odds are, though not said, Tywin either felt the same or was just plain ashamed of the fact his son is an Imp. Jamie was perfect, and Tywin's ego would want every son to be like him. The only one in the family that really loved him was Jamie, and that's why Jamie saved him. Anything else is people reading into this more than what's there.... unless they're book readers and know something I don't. If that's the case after we've burned them at the stake for reading the books, I'll point out that they haven't said anything more in the series.