Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
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Nov 30, 2005
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Jaime and Tywin had quite a falling out earlier in the season, I doubt there will be many hard feelings there.
Plus Cersei was pretty against Tywin now, so she might be happy that Tommen will now escape his influence and she can focus on minimizing the impact of the mousey cat-faced chick.

KT
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
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I dunno. I keep thinking back to that scene with Brienne in the tubs, and Jaime's "If your precious Renly had commanded you to kill your own father, would you have done it?"

It's one thing to have a huge argument with your father. It's another thing to be OK with your kid brother murdering him in cold blood. And really, that's what Tyrion did. He had to climb every step in the tower of the hand, which apparently was a lot since Joffrey bitched about it. That's quite a long ways to go when you should be running for your life.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
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Thought the Bran scene just looked a bit hokey with the fireballs. Just seemed oddly 80's TV, like they cheaped out on the SFX.
It looked to me like they weren't 'casting' fire ball, but rather they were actually throwing maltavs that blew up big and fast.

Me too.

In fact, it makes me wonder why anyone EVER rode dragons. Why not just warg them into battle instead and not risk yourself?

Dragon riding seems like a luxury and unneeded risk.
Perhaps being a warg is fairly rare: so much so that warging into dragons has never been mentioned in the history of dragon warfare; and we have no information about how a warted semi-sentient creature like a wolf or a dragon or hodor would respond if it was ordered to act against the people it loves.

On the spoiler conversation: I appreciate people who go back and forth over what the show has said and I assume that nearly-nothing in this thread is based on the book. Clearly you can come to some very strong conclusions regarding what will happen by considering what has happened.

For example:

I WAS SO RIGHT!

I think Jaime is going to help Tyrion escape death, just the way no-one did for Ned... where, how, that's something to speculate about. But Jamie was definitely happy when he thought his bother had gotten off; and honestly would have stood for his brother had his hand been functional.

Perhaps Varys had already been working on something since before the trial, and thats why he was so unhappy that he remembered how Tyrion saved them all? Perhaps in a way that explains Shae's betrayal?
You know Ron, I think that's a great point. Maybe the people surrounding Tyrion have been preparing for him to lose and he screwed the whole thing up when he freaked out. Maybe they know that a smart man is more valuable than land and title? No one is good in in the Martin-verse; but perhaps, just this once, he doesn't stick his shriveled fat dick in our eye and rewards us, instead of punishes us, for watching the show!

Although I must admit that I thought Shae was going to help with the whole escape thing; her plot was resolved. It was obvious Tyrion was going to see Tywin when he walked past the desk of the hand and the table of the small-councle.

I loved the part where Varys thought he'd get away with it (as per his walking back to the castle) then he realized that Tyrion had screwed the pooch once more and just got back on that boat to keep Tyrion free on their ride to the land of the free men.

I was honestly excited by the fight; Although I thought the little taking Aria did with Brienne may well have helped get them to chat a bit more after the fight... Though the Hound did destroy her character by pointing out her close relationship with the Lanisters.

Also she was the first to turn it into a fight by being bad at talking, which was very much inline with her socially-awkward stoic character.
 
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Mar 10, 2005
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TBD s4e10 breakdown! :

1. jon and manse - kinda meh, but how else would it go down?

2. stannis to the rescue! - smilin' stannis boratheon finally does something. are the boltons next? mentioning ned is part of the "children" theme - jon inherited his values. the lone attacker cut down suddenly by the rider reminded me of monty python and the holy grail.

3. the mountain lives! (kinda) - venom of the death's head manticore...ok. here's what a manticore looks like:


not bad for a world where people don't believe in magic. anyway, it's fascinating to see what fiendish, unnatural experiments qyburn will do with his new "child". however, why is cersei involved? literally everyone but jamie and her children are disposable and the mountain's job is done, so what does she care?

4. cersei and tywin - the parent's hold on things is slipping. the lannister family might blow apart at the seams.

5. cersei and jamie - we're coming out of the closet...let's fuck to celebrate!

6. danerys faces consequences - still the worst part of the show. the whole thing, particularly the catacombs scene, seemed to go on forever. great-looking cgi dragons, though. nice feat of strength by collaring you "children" unassisted, danerys.

7. funeral pyre -
jon: we've got to burn these bodies so they don't come back as zombies
melissandre: you had me at "burning bodies"
jon: you looking at me? you looking at me?

8. jon and the muppet - i liked it. in this scene the muppet conveys more personality and texture than all his previous scenes combined.

9. ygritte's funeral pyre - take her out to the forest, and then chop all that wood. it's been a busy day for jon!

10. the tree! - i didn't expect them to conclude their journey this season. i mean, everything else takes forever, and the tree dream was "only" 8 episodes ago. i would have liked a smoother transition into the magical fantasy stuff. skeletons rise from the ground and attack, fine. but then a faerie appears and starts throwing magic grenades? not a subtle transition. i enjoyed the very mechanical-looking repeated stabbing of jojen (nothing against the kid, but it was his time to go and it looked cool.) super-duper animation here! it looked just like what i imagined all those rpg combat rounds to be like!

11. gandalf lives under the tree! - maybe it's dumbledor? i'll call him bob. bob weirwood (any deadheads here?). the whole thing goes pretty much as expected. i do wish there was some context for the terminator-esque mountain of bones in bob's root-room. bob tangled up with the tree reminds me of babylon 5's custodian of the machine.

12. brienne, pod, arya and hound - this is a big one, so let's take it 1 bite at a time. brienne and pod wake up from a lovely night on the rocks, and the horses are gone. sure, it's pod's fuck-up but in the end that's on you, brienne. you're the boss and it's your responsibility to see things are done right.

the dialog between arya and brienne is pretty awkward, but i guess some chit-chat is needed to move things along. once the hound finishes his deuce, the awkward exchange continues to the inevitable confrontation, verbal then physical. brienne did a pretty poor job arguing her case (just like ser friendzone. they should have had ser davos representing them. he is apparently westeros' saul goodman).

the fight - ok, i demanded the hound go out in an awesome battle, and i got it! the hits, the screaming, everything was great!

the aftermath - rory mccann acts his ass off, again! he shows a lot of depth here, first goading then pleading for a mercy kill. arya is content to ignore his pleas for death, just as he ignored the boy's pleas for life.

goodbye, hound! at this point it hurts to lose anyone from the beginning, but you were one of our favorites. the few glimpses of your human side were fantastic. i will have 2 chickens in your memory. also, i look forward to seeing mccann in the future. woo, i'm ok. i'm ok.

13. jailbreak! - i knew tyrion would live, but i expected some pardon or technicality or something that would let him walk the streets. being smuggled out to the free cities is taking him in a completely different direction (literally and figuratively). varys has not forgotten his friend/throne contender, after all.

so tyrion decides to pay a visit to the tower of the hand through the convenient, efficient and clean tunnel system before he leaves. it's father's day, after all!

we go to tywin's bedroom and, shae! wtf shae! you are a phony bitch whore, shae! i suspected bronn and varys screwed tyrion by not putting her on the boat, but it's clear it was bronn and tywin. and what contradiction! what hypocrisy! the old man hollers how he hates whores, and what does he do when nobody's looking? he screws shae into unconsciousness and then hits the shitter for an hour.

tale of the tape is totally in shae's favor here - weight, height, reach, and a fucking knife. but the dwarf gets inside and the knife is knocked out of her hand by a jolting strike against a feathery silk pillow. fitting that she is strangled with the gold chain, although the fight was a bit "slappy" for a bit. it would have been nice to see tyrion reflect on these events for a bit longer, but no time for that - we have fathers to murder and seas to escape across.

you'd think the hand of the king would have a full bath right off the master bedroom. then again, maybe the master bedroom is the one without a stinking shitpipe in it. either way, tywin is remarkably unfazed by tyrion walking into the crapper with joffrey's crossbow. he tries smooth-talking bullshit, he tries authority, but there's no way this is ending without him getting shot, and he is honestly surprised by this outcome.

goodbye, tywin! you were an excellent character, and charles dance was excellent at portraying you. every godfather / evil patriarch character will always be measured against tywin lannister. put your hands together for the hand of the king!

14. escape! - was varys camping the door this whole time? accomplices never wait so long as to risk themselves. is that the same box the wizard was shipped in? ewww.

varys sees the box loaded on the ship, and then turns to head home. then, the bells ring! if you'll remember,
varys: "i've always hated the bells. they ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege."
tyrion: "a wedding"
varys: "exactly"

it takes him about 1 second to realize there is no way he is walking back into that mess, and takes his only way out - keeping the box company on its way to essos. i suspect he will visit his friend / accomplice illyrio in pentos, and had brokered shae's refused bailout package similarly.

15. braavos bound! - thank the old gods, the new and especially the god of light that there is a braavosi ship heading home, just over that hill. a bit too convenient, but tick-tock, tick-tock, we're already at 1 hour and 2 minutes. the scene is gorgeous and colorful, in contrast to the mostly blah grey misery we've seen for a while (i think that's transposition of scenery and story, but i know fuck all about filmmaking).

she immediately picks out the captain - he's the one using his brain and not his back. i liked their exchange, and when she plays the ace his reaction is appropriate for the gravitas implied, "whoa, whoa, whoa! this changes everything!"

overall, 1 of the best game of thrones episodes as well as 1 of the most important story-wise. i enjoyed it immensely! it's nice to see all these climaxes and conclusions and jumping-off points for new stories, but at the same time i kinda feel like they jerk us around for a lot of the season while we wait for the payoff. the only reason we didn't see darth sansa turn to the dark side in this episode was because it was already over an hour. in a story this huge i think it would be ok if we had more incremental climaxes instead of a logjam at the end of the season/book.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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11. gandalf lives under the tree! - maybe it's dumbledor? i'll call him bob. bob weirwood (any deadheads here?). the whole thing goes pretty much as expected. i do wish there was some context for the terminator-esque mountain of bones in bob's root-room. bob tangled up with the tree reminds me of babylon 5's custodian of the machine.

edit:
more to follow shortly
overall, great writeup! and lol!

<---- :cool:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,554
23,448
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Dragons are magical so I'm going to assume warging doesn't work on them. Otherwise the North wouldn't have needed to surrender to the Targaryens 300 years ago. They could have just taken over the dragons.
the north, north never did. no one bothered the north north. --north of the wall. The Wildlings and whatnot

When wargs were introduced here--John Snow with the wildlings and Bran with that creepy nerd dude, neither had ever been exposed to such a thing. I don't think warging is known to anyone south of the wall, but it seems a specialty to very few with First Men blood--all of the wildlings, The Starks, and those closely related to the Starks (I seem to recall nerdy dude and his sister being semi-lordlings from northfolk?).

Anyway, I don't think it was ever an issue with the Targaryans and their dragons, because they probably never encountered wargs.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,127
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So, question: Who owns Casterly Rock now? Tywin's dead, Jaime can't own property, Tyrion's a fugitive for killing the king. Does Cersei own it now, does it skip her and go to Tommen?
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
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As much as the Hound in concept is really an asshole who should be hated, there's a certain depth in his character that I thought Arya would have figured out by now and have learned to appreciate and sympathize with since he cared for, mentored, and respected her in an asshole way... the most figurative display of a savage dog with a master :p

So I thought it was a bit cold on her part to leave him like that which leads me to believe he's going to live.
Yeah, I think that someway, somehow, the Hound will pull through, but Tywin is gone, he went limp as a ragdoll. He's done.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
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As much as the Hound in concept is really an asshole who should be hated, there's a certain depth in his character that I thought Arya would have figured out by now and have learned to appreciate and sympathize with since he cared for, mentored, and respected her in an asshole way... the most figurative display of a savage dog with a master :p

So I thought it was a bit cold on her part to leave him like that which leads me to believe he's going to live.
I think she did. That's why she took so long just standing there considering what to do. Her decision to leave him kinda coincides with her decision to head to Braavos. However much he'd done for her since, he was on her death list and had murdered one of her friends. If she's decided to become a faceless person or assassin or otherwise, leaving him like that fits the mentality.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
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So, question: Who owns Casterly Rock now? Tywin's dead, Jaime can't own property, Tyrion's a fugitive for killing the king. Does Cersei own it now, does it skip her and go to Tommen?
I would guess the closest oldest relative of tywin as woman usually do not inherit stuff like that and tommen has more then enough as he owns all the lands as the king.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,708
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I think Tywin is toast. This will set up Cersei to do what she wants. She'll not marry that dude she is supposed to, and will be able to control Tommen. I don't know if she'll be super pissed at Tyrion for getting away, or less pissed at him for killing Tywin because of the forced marriage thing. If she decides Tyrion is who she hates most, it could be a full-on hatred based manhunt for him.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
19,796
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I wonder if Mace and some of the other wildlings will be offered Nights Watch positions. They are certainly thinned out and if winter is indeed coming (in 9-14 seasons or so) the wall could use some more manpower

The amount of "cunts" spoken is now going to be drastically reduced.
And my excuse for using it goes away too
Me: "Cunts"
Everyone else: *reacts in horror*
Me: "Oh sorry I just finished watching the latest GoT episode"
Everyone else: *suddenly all smiles* "Oh hey wasn't that part with the brutal killing\rape awesome?!"

So I thought it was a bit cold on her part to leave him like that which leads me to believe he's going to live.
I did too. It seemed like there was actual bonding going on there

White walker Mountain maybe? That would be interesting.
I was wondering but i get the initial impression that cold is needed for that and I didn't see anything that seemed like it would relate
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
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Hound is dead, the entire point of that scene is Arya left him to die. He was on her list, why would she give him grace? She wouldn't, she didn't. Unless you guys think there really was a Maester hiding behind the corner.

He was sitting in the middle of nowhere with a serious leg fracture. He can't move and no one is coming to save him. Arya even took his water away, dying is thirsty work.

And some of you think I'm crazy for floating the Syrio theory. Syrio never even got hit. ;)

I missed the "children" connection between the non-maester guy and the Mountain, good catch Dangler. "will he be weaker" "Oh noooo, not at all" or whatever. Yeah, I'm seeing a zombie-esque Mountain next season. Just as strong but fucked up in the head, maybe crazy maybe really-really stupid.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
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The Hound is right up there with Tyrion for support actor of the year imo.


At what looks like his death bed we hear him almost like a child asking her to take care of him. Their roles completely reversed with no remorse or feeling at all in Arya's face. The old her who pleaded for the kid who got stabbed in the neck or screaming for Gendry is gone. She is no longer a child and no longer a stark.


Was that the same necklace that Tyrion got Shae that did the deed? Again with the necklaces ^^


Loved the deliciousness of Joffrey's favorite crossbow

I would almost call this season tides turn as does the worm


GD stannis I am starting to like you so you know your fucked next season. GDI.

Worst thing about stannis is the red woman has only really done two things for him and otherwise has all been the Onion Knight.
 

blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,454
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Any guesses on the new Hand of the King? I think if it can be a female, it will be Cersei. If not, I think it will be Jamie.
 

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