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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,065
360
136
I just want Oberyon's death to "mean something" to him. He of course didn't want to die, but at least making the Mtn confess to his actions before dying is the completion of the big mission of revenge on the Mtn. Killing other Lannisters was on the bucket list but at least one guy got checked off.

I did rewatch the fight scene. In the middle, Oberyon appears to get a stab in under the chest piece right when he starts to gain control of the fight. He then gets a good slice in behind the Mtn's leg in (possibly slicing the tendon as he can't stand after that point). Then finally there's the big impalement in the center of the chest where he keeps the blade in for a bit and the Mtn spit's up some blood. He is just bleeding out at this point and Oberyon didn't expect him to have that much energy other than a dying breath implication of Tywin.

It would be a very GRRM thing to have the Mtn survive though and that's why I worry.
I can't speak to GRRM things, but it would be a GoT thing. It seems the only people that really survive are the fucked up ones. I have to wonder if we're going to run out of respectable people soon. Then I wonder if I'll still enjoy it as much when there's really no one left to root for. I have a thing about shows that get too dark, I'm not watching TV to be depressed afterwards.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
I can't speak to GRRM things, but it would be a GoT thing. It seems the only people that really survive are the fucked up ones. I have to wonder if we're going to run out of respectable people soon. Then I wonder if I'll still enjoy it as much when there's really no one left to root for. I have a thing about shows that get too dark, I'm not watching TV to be depressed afterwards.
Well we've yet to see anyone survive a thrust through the chest, likely with a poisoned blade (Oberyn's squire wasn't rubbing it down to make it shiny). And he was spitting up blood after that thrust, which means his esophagus was likely penetrated. By all logic the Mountain is fucked.
 

Williz

Member
Jan 3, 2014
145
1
0
SPOILER REMOVED




No Spoilers allowed in this thread, please go to the book thread if you want to discuss things from the books.

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02ranger

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2006
1,050
0
76
Having trouble understanding what you mean. That better not be a spoiler.

Is it just baiting the anti-spoiler folks?
Since the original comment was deleted, I deleted my response............

Delete this if necessary, just wanted to answer his question. There is nothing specific under the spoiler tags, though.
 
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Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,084
15
81
Dammit, what an awesome and powerful episode...

Oberyn Martell is my favorite character in the series so far, next to Tyrion Lannister...but now I'm really curious to see what will happen to Sansa and LF...Sansa seems to have taken on the "dark side" and that's good for her.

Arya and The Hound...I don't know whats going on with those two...not that it's boring but seems weird. Same thing with Jon Snow, he was a cool character at the start but now I don't really care anymore...

But the final fight...dammit...
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,561
8
0
I know I was like at first, ohh.. ok he will just get on top and choke him.

Okay.. oh .. shit wow ok just going for the ol eye gouge.


HOLY FUCK NO WAY SHOULD THAT HAPPEN !!!!! 0_0 !!!


The more I watch the end the more this falls inline with the shows recurrent theme of hubris being deadly. We saw it with Ned to a lesser extent by his insistence in not maneuvering with support during the death of the king and Rob Stark with his spurning of his marriage pledge and now Oberyn almost as loved as Ned gets struck down in the bloodiest sense because he pranced around and didnt respect his opponent. First fucking thing you learn from battle.
 
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momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
The more I watch the end the more this falls inline with the shows recurrent theme of hubris being deadly. We saw it with Ned to a lesser extent by his insistence in not maneuvering with support during the death of the king and Rob Stark with his spurning of his marriage pledge and now Oberyn almost as loved as Ned gets struck down in the bloodiest sense because he pranced around and didnt respect his opponent. First fucking thing you learn from battle.
Yea, I guess an accomplished warrior and the leader of a sellsword company wouldn't know that. GRRM shit the bed with Oberyn tbh.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,561
8
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Yea, I guess an accomplished warrior and the leader of a sellsword company wouldn't know that. GRRM shit the bed with Oberyn tbh.
Many a general has lost his head because he underestimated his opponent. Oberyn had displayed this trait already as did all the dead so far in the show. Visaries or w/e his name was the most blatant. The Tullies are almost wiped out because their family trait of duty and honor only Blackfish escaped the red wedding. Why do you think GRR let Blackfish live? He said fuck off to his family. People that do that so far in the show have been rewarded.

I am not a fat man apologist I just see how he paces out his stories or to be accurate how the show works since I have not read the books though I have seen all the histories and lore and they fill in a TON of info and patterns that emerge from certain house stories.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
Many a general has lost his head because he underestimated his opponent. Oberyn had displayed this trait already as did all the dead so far in the show. Visaries or w/e his name was the most blatant. The Tullies are almost wiped out because their family trait of duty and honor only Blackfish escaped the red wedding. Why do you think GRR let Blackfish live? He said fuck off to his family. People that do that so far in the show have been rewarded.

I am not a fat man apologist I just see how he paces out his stories or to be accurate how the show works since I have not read the books though I have seen all the histories and lore and they fill in a TON of info and patterns that emerge from certain house stories.
Where did he display that trait?
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
Out of curiosity. The ages of the characters in the book are very low, relative to what you would expect. I think Robb was only 14 in the book? Maybe 12?

Since we know that Winter only happens every few years or so, and therefore the planet this is on is not Earth, I've always assumed that the years are just more than 365 days. Do they ever make light of that in the books? Or do they just leave it to your imagination?
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
59
91
Where did he display that trait?
I don't think he displayed it.. That's what made it so sudden.

Plus, he speared the mountain several times and he was laying on his back bleeding out.

He most likely thought he was incapacitated.

The mountain had one last burst of energy, and it was a death throw rage. That's what got Oberyn.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,561
8
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Where did he display that trait?
Openly declaring that he was going to kill Lannisters and being defiant in front of Tywinn and his general air of invincibility. A calculating ruthless man would do as Tywinn does and hide his true emotion and most importantly his intent. Dont tell everyone what your gonna do. This is the reason I think Daario wont last long hopefully since he and Oberyn shared that trait. People like Varis and LF who hide their intention and desires are gonna live. We saw the first Chinc in the armour of LF when Sansa got the better of him. I also see Sansa as now owning LF after saving his life. If you saw LF face it was pleasure but also a little bit of fear.

Oberyn stabbed a lannister the day he got to Kings landing as well. He also thought about revenge and implication of tywinn before actually defeating his enemy. A man known as the most ruthless bloody and dirty fighter and brawler. Its also well known that men live for hours sometimes days with chest wounds though they eventually succumb. Hilaria knew the importance of the situation and was shitting her pants accordingly. The second I saw Oberyn Look at her and take his eyes off his opponent I knew he was screwed.
 

smakme7757

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2010
1,488
1
81
I had a feeling Oberyn was going to die in the fight. I actually presumed he would lose his head by the great sword. Real fucking shame he got knocked off though, even more so the way he did. He was by far one of the most dynamic characters in the series. Very entertaining.

Oberyn completely outpaced and outplayed the Mountain who relied purely on brute force and little to no skill. Oberyn lost his concentration with his ramblings and died.

Put it this way, if he was just fighting the Mountain and didn't have a score to settle he would have killed him a lot faster, cleaned his blade and walked away with his woman!
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
86
I had a feeling Oberyn was going to die in the fight. I actually presumed he would lose his head by the great sword. Real fucking shame he got knocked off though, even more so the way he did. He was by far one of the most dynamic characters in the series. Very entertaining.

Oberyn completely outpaced and outplayed the Mountain who relied purely on brute force and little to no skill. Oberyn lost his concentration with his ramblings and died.

Put it this way, if he was just fighting the Mountain and didn't have a score to settle he would have killed him a lot faster, cleaned his blade and walked away with his woman!
Had he no score to settle with the Mountain, Oberyn was smart enough to avoid him. Bronn realized that, even if he was much faster than the Mountain, he only took one slip up to die. Unless there was a really good reason to to fight him, it is best to avoid that confrontation.
 

smakme7757

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2010
1,488
1
81
Had he no score to settle with the Mountain, Oberyn was smart enough to avoid him. Bronn realized that, even if he was much faster than the Mountain, he only took one slip up to die. Unless there was a really good reason to to fight him, it is best to avoid that confrontation.
What do you mean he had no score to settle with the mountain? He wanted the mountain to confess to killing family members and to tell him who gave the order to do it.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
86
What do you mean he had no score to settle with the mountain? He wanted the mountain to confess to killing family members and to tell him who gave the order to do it.
Your implication was that, if he had no score to settle, Oberyn would have dispatched the Mountain with ease. I was saying, if he had no score to settle, he wouldn't have engaged the Mountain in the first place. Bronn understood this, and even went so far as to explain it to Tyrion. Tyrion pretty much lucked out because his only real friend wasn't able to fight for him. Jaime would have stepped up if he still had his hand, for love of Tyrion. Nobody else would fight for him; Oberyn happened to have a score to settle, so he volunteered.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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What do you mean he had no score to settle with the mountain? He wanted the mountain to confess to killing family members and to tell him who gave the order to do it.
He said "had he no score" not "he had no score;" essentially, if Oberyn didn't have a score to settle with the Mountain, he never would have volunteered to fight him in the first place, even if he thought he could win (which he clearly could have). He let his raging vengeance boner take over and it got him killed.
 

smakme7757

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2010
1,488
1
81
Your implication was that, if he had no score to settle, Oberyn would have dispatched the Mountain with ease. I was saying, if he had no score to settle, he wouldn't have engaged the Mountain in the first place. Bronn understood this, and even went so far as to explain it to Tyrion. Tyrion pretty much lucked out because his only real friend wasn't able to fight for him. Jaime would have stepped up if he still had his hand, for love of Tyrion. Nobody else would fight for him; Oberyn happened to have a score to settle, so he volunteered.
Ok, i read it a little too fast. I read "he had no" rather than "had he no". My bad.

I feel that Oberyn was the better fighter at the end of the day. Both the film and the books seems to give cause for that to be the case: Speed, acceleration, nimble, strong and smart. The mountain only really had his weight and muscle.

I'm not sure if I would put Bronn in the same class as Oberyn, at least not against The Mountain. Bronn was a nimble swordsman, but i think Oberyn' skill with a spear is what made him a real danger to The Mountain.

However, I'm sure neither Oberyn nor Bronn would have taken a challenge without reason though.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Ok, i read it a little too fast. I read "he had no" rather than "had he no". My bad.

I feel that Oberyn was the better fighter at the end of the day. Both the film and the books seems to give cause for that to be the case: Speed, acceleration, nimble, strong and smart. The mountain only really had his weight and muscle.

I'm not sure if I would put Bronn in the same class as Oberyn, at least not against The Mountain. Bronn was a nimble swordsman, but i think Oberyn' skill with a spear is what made him a real danger to The Mountain.

However, I'm sure neither Oberyn nor Bronn would have taken a challenge without reason though.
Spear gives longer reach than a sword.
 

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