Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
I thought the opening part where the Viper was jumping and spinning with the spear was pretty freaking cool. I think the Mountain's choreography was subpar. Although there aren't a lot of quick moves a 400 lb guy can do.

that guy is skilled at carrying large boulders or small junkyard cars down a 100ft track. Still not sure why he was cast as a badass warrior. It's like watching King Hippo.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
As weird as it sounds I'm starting to kinda like Ramsey in a roundabout way. Granted I hope he dies a horrible and painful death when Theon rediscovers his identity, but he's not as innately bad as Geoffrey. Geoffrey knew right from wrong and didn't care. Ramsey seems to just have a severely warped view of right and wrong; at least in the show. I hear he's a lot more brazenly psychotic in the books.

That scene with him and lord Bolton really showed it. Everything he's done aside, he's still capable of respect and of feeling honored, and he cares about his dad's opinion of him. Makes him a ton more relatable, even if he is a sadistic bastard. Especially when you consider how equally fucked up his dad is.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
As weird as it sounds I'm starting to kinda like Ramsey in a roundabout way. Granted I hope he dies a horrible and painful death when Theon rediscovers his identity, but he's not as innately bad as Geoffrey. Geoffrey knew right from wrong and didn't care. Ramsey seems to just have a severely warped view of right and wrong; at least in the show. I hear he's a lot more brazenly psychotic in the books.

That scene with him and lord Bolton really showed it. Everything he's done aside, he's still capable of respect and of feeling honored, and he cares about his dad's opinion of him. Makes him a ton more relatable, even if he is a sadistic bastard. Especially when you consider how equally fucked up his dad is.

This is why that was an important scene. His father pretty much secured Ramsey's loyalty indefinitely.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
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The rules of the trial by combat. It's "to the death" and Oberyn was dead. That's why Tywin pronounced Tyrion guilty, the fight was over at that point.

I don't think those are the rules--unless directly proclaimed, maybe. Those weren't the rules in Tyrion's first trial. You just need the loser to submit. Queen Splat ordered Bronn to kill the loser.

But as for the rest, I agree. I don't see why the Mountain wouldn't be the winner, and Tyrion the loser regardless of what happens. All the other poisoning discussion is merely filler for the week.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
As weird as it sounds I'm starting to kinda like Ramsey in a roundabout way. Granted I hope he dies a horrible and painful death when Theon rediscovers his identity, but he's not as innately bad as Geoffrey. Geoffrey knew right from wrong and didn't care. Ramsey seems to just have a severely warped view of right and wrong; at least in the show. I hear he's a lot more brazenly psychotic in the books.

That scene with him and lord Bolton really showed it. Everything he's done aside, he's still capable of respect and of feeling honored, and he cares about his dad's opinion of him. Makes him a ton more relatable, even if he is a sadistic bastard. Especially when you consider how equally fucked up his dad is.

Geoffrey never hurt anyone

mzl.orrskdmg.png


It's Joffrey that was the psycho.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
I don't think Oberyn would have made such a blunder, which is why his death upset me more than most.

Dany was too trustworthy initially and lost Khal Drogo because of it.

Ned, too honorable, didn't appreciate the games that the Lannisters would play.

Robb - Too lusty, broke a wedding vow, didn't appreciate Frey's old age craziness. Overly confident from his field victories.

Joffrey - No explanation necessary.

Those main ones I feel were IN LINE with how the characters were portrayed.

Oberyn was an accomplished warrior, he led a mercenary company. He probably knew how dangerous a person could be even after being stabbed in the gut. Why would he be in a place to get taken down by his opponent and divert his attention from his opponent while so close? Makes no sense. Was complete bullshit imo.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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I don't have a problem with Oberyn letting his guard down. He was shown as cocky, and seemed to be getting frustrated with the Mountain, despite him being in control. He was pointing and looking at Tywin during the exchange.
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
I don't think Oberyn would have made such a blunder, which is why his death upset me more than most.

Dany was too trustworthy initially and lost Khal Drogo because of it.

Ned, too honorable, didn't appreciate the games that the Lannisters would play.

Robb - Too lusty, broke a wedding vow, didn't appreciate Frey's old age craziness. Overly confident from his field victories.

Joffrey - No explanation necessary.

Those main ones I feel were IN LINE with how the characters were portrayed.

Oberyn was an accomplished warrior, he led a mercenary company. He probably knew how dangerous a person could be even after being stabbed in the gut. Why would he be in a place to get taken down by his opponent and divert his attention from his opponent while so close? Makes no sense. Was complete bullshit imo.

i'll agree. given that his emotions clouded his judgement, fine. but that was a silly mistake and way out of line for his character. and it looked like such a schoolyard takedown, too!
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,235
117
116
I don't think Oberyn would have made such a blunder, which is why his death upset me more than most.

Dany was too trustworthy initially and lost Khal Drogo because of it.

Ned, too honorable, didn't appreciate the games that the Lannisters would play.

Robb - Too lusty, broke a wedding vow, didn't appreciate Frey's old age craziness. Overly confident from his field victories.

Joffrey - No explanation necessary.

Those main ones I feel were IN LINE with how the characters were portrayed.

Oberyn was an accomplished warrior, he led a mercenary company. He probably knew how dangerous a person could be even after being stabbed in the gut. Why would he be in a place to get taken down by his opponent and divert his attention from his opponent while so close? Makes no sense. Was complete bullshit imo.

While I do actually agree with you and felt the same way when it happened, my guess is he was blinded by his rage and lust for revenge at this point. Really wanting Tywin to be implicated before finishing off the Mountain, so he let his guard slip while addressing them. However I pretty much still think it's BS.

KT
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
I don't think Oberyn would have made such a blunder, which is why his death upset me more than most.

Dany was too trustworthy initially and lost Khal Drogo because of it.

Ned, too honorable, didn't appreciate the games that the Lannisters would play.

Robb - Too lusty, broke a wedding vow, didn't appreciate Frey's old age craziness. Overly confident from his field victories.

Joffrey - No explanation necessary.

Those main ones I feel were IN LINE with how the characters were portrayed.

Oberyn was an accomplished warrior, he led a mercenary company. He probably knew how dangerous a person could be even after being stabbed in the gut. Why would he be in a place to get taken down by his opponent and divert his attention from his opponent while so close? Makes no sense. Was complete bullshit imo.

It makes some sense, he lost his head. Remember he wasn't fighting this for practical reasons, he was fighting it out of emotion. Given how deeply he feels about his sister, I can see how in the heat of the moment, after the fight of his life with adrenaline pumping through him in addition to unfathomable rage, he lost his edge and made a stupid mistake.

Honestly his only real mistake was standing on top of the mountain, in ripe position for a reversal. Given the afore-mentioned factors clouding his judgement, he probably made a snap decision that the mountain was down for the count, as he had been lying on his back for some time. Any other man probably would have been down for the count, and correspondingly his instincts overrode his reason.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
I think the opposite would be the case if he were to give into his emotions. He would have instead killed him swiftly in his adrenaline and rage, and forgone getting the confession. Wanting the confession is calculated and reasonable. Him still trying to get it shows he didn't let the heat of the battle get to him.

I just don't feel like putting on my GRRM apologist cap for this. I don't think it jives. GRRM seems to subtly hint at character flaws that lead to their downfall, I think I'm missing the hint with this one. Maybe some sort of battle wound from a previous fight being discussed, showing that hey may be prone to letting his guard down. He carried a small dagger with him to the brothel when he stabbed the Lannister man in the hand.

I'll get over it. I got over it when I was reading the books, I just forgot that it would bring this all up again when watching the show.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
I know. but in this discussion, it is what happens if the Mountain dies from poisoning in the fight?

I would assume the post-fight fate of the accuser's champion doesn't really matter. Guy just doesn't get any glory or favor if he dies. Defendant's champion's fate is really the only one that matters. Dead champion = dead defendant, period. So the Mountain living or dying from poison or a bad wound should have no impact on Tyrion's fate.

I guess "first to die" (or submit) must be the criteria for who loses. Otherwise, what if roles were reversed and the Mountain died first, but Oberyn has some mortal wound he's sure to die of after the fight?
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,300
126
hm.. grey worm not fully castrated. explains why the other unsullied picked him as leader.

but if even if he only has 1 ball, shouldn't he be bigger/stronger?

I wonder where the show is going w/this?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
I don't think Oberyn would have made such a blunder, which is why his death upset me more than most.

Dany was too trustworthy initially and lost Khal Drogo because of it.

Ned, too honorable, didn't appreciate the games that the Lannisters would play.

Robb - Too lusty, broke a wedding vow, didn't appreciate Frey's old age craziness. Overly confident from his field victories.

Joffrey - No explanation necessary.

Those main ones I feel were IN LINE with how the characters were portrayed.

Oberyn was an accomplished warrior, he led a mercenary company. He probably knew how dangerous a person could be even after being stabbed in the gut. Why would he be in a place to get taken down by his opponent and divert his attention from his opponent while so close? Makes no sense. Was complete bullshit imo.

As stated earlier, his goal was to get the Mountain to confess that Tywin ordered the murders of his family. Make no mistake that he ever honestly agreed to join the Lannisters on this council bargain. He was out to kill all of the Lannisters, and that never changed--except maybe Tyrion. I think he was truly fond of the little guy.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,300
126
I don't buy Dany banishing Sir Friendzone. felt forced.

I would have figured she'd forgive him. spying was in the past. would have figured she'd see that he is truly loyal to her?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
I don't buy Dany banishing Sir Friendzone. felt forced.

I would have figured she'd forgive him. spying was in the past. would have figured she'd see that he is truly loyal to her?

To whom he was selling her out to is rather important.
 

TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,561
7
81
To whom he was selling her out to is rather important.

Why? She knows it was Robert, and that he is dead now. The point is that Jorah spied on her for quite some time. She cannot trust him.

Screw spoilers,as someone else said, the mountain ended up killing a couple of spectators in the book version of the fight, with his wild swinging. He is not a technician, he just overpowers his opponents. He is supposed to be about 7'7 and well over 400 lbs. He is terrifying in stature.

Boston dangler commented that Ramsay took winterfell this episode. FWIW, that wasnt Winterfell, that was Moat Cailan, a total dump of a fort, stuck right in the middle of a festering swamp. It guards the only real road through the swamp. Roose needed it open to have free access to all the North. It is a geographic bottleneck, and therefore very strategically important. But it is a total hellhole.
 
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squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
5
46
Tyrion doesn't seem to have any significance in the story line anymore. He has lost power and influence and perhaps he will be killed off...
 

squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
5
46
Yes most but not anyone. Arya for example. They have already let everyone know in the show she is going to do certain things...kill certain people...