Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

[Phoenix86]

Spoiler

Ned never really says anything other than Jon 'has Stark blood' in him. Also, the rest of Ned's kids don't exactly look like Jon, they all share traits with their mother and the Tully blood. In the later books, which the show hasn't touched on yet, there is belief among houses that Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped, rather than Rhaegar kidnapping her. Robert never really did much than admire her from afar, despite having been "given" her hand. Ned was the one that found Lyanna and her death was never fully explained, so people believe she died in child birth (and that being the possible reason she eloped). This is all conjecture though, as nobody except (and maybe not even) GRRM knows for certain. Jon could be the the last dragon, along with Bruce Leeroy ofc, and heir to the throne, rather than Dany.

Spoiler

Jon's hand burned when he grabbed the lantern when he killed the wight, fire cannot burn a dragon. Of course Viserys or whatever his name was could be burned.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

any minecraft fans here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rVoqsCT7ME

the song also played in-game occasionally

 

[smackababy]

Spoiler

Jon's hand burned when he grabbed the lantern when he killed the wight, fire cannot burn a dragon. Of course Viserys or whatever his name was could be burned.

Spoiler

Jon also wouldn't be 100% Targaryan, just half. They were all mostly inbred. I have a feeling that the rest of them would have burned as well. Dany is the mother of dragons, though.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Spoiler

Ned never really says anything other than Jon 'has Stark blood' in him. Also, the rest of Ned's kids don't exactly look like Jon, they all share traits with their mother and the Tully blood. In the later books, which the show hasn't touched on yet, there is belief among houses that Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped, rather than Rhaegar kidnapping her. Robert never really did much than admire her from afar, despite having been "given" her hand. Ned was the one that found Lyanna and her death was never fully explained, so people believe she died in child birth (and that being the possible reason she eloped). This is all conjecture though, as nobody except (and maybe not even) GRRM knows for certain. Jon could be the the last dragon, along with Bruce Leeroy ofc, and heir to the throne, rather than Dany.

Spoiler

well, in the Targaryan custom, the two would get married anyway and rule as king and queen, so Danny is not about to lose out...that is if she's willing; she's clearly strong willed enough to take all the power for herself if she doesn't wish to share it.

At any rate, even if Jon is Rhaegar's son, he's still a bastard in the eyes of the realm (not unlike Gendry); it wouldn't matter that Rhaegar might have legitimately loved Lyannna and have preferred she be his wife, it wasn't ever made legal.

potential major spoilers:

Spoiler

Plus we do have a legitimate son of Rhaegar still alive, as Varys saved the baby Aegon with a decoy, and he would actually be first in line ahead of either Danny or Jon. But as I said before, if Danny keeps playing her cards right, line of succession laws won't matter when she is clearly becoming powerful enough to rewrite them. Granted, Jon's warg ability might help his cause if he can use that ability to bind himself to one of Danny's dragons (this is if Jon even survives the stabbings), as it seems pretty clear that she would take that as a sign. Which brings us to Victarion Greyjoy and his dragon horn...which could cause who knows how much trouble...

 

[smackababy]

Spoiler

well, in the Targaryan custom, the two would get married anyway and rule as king and queen, so Danny is not about to lose out...that is if she's willing; she's clearly strong willed enough to take all the power for herself if she doesn't wish to share it.

At any rate, even if Jon is Rhaegar's son, he's still a bastard in the eyes of the realm (not unlike Gendry); it wouldn't matter that Rhaegar might have legitimately loved Lyannna and have preferred she be his wife, it wasn't ever made legal.

potential major spoilers:

Spoiler

Plus we do have a legitimate son of Rhaegar still alive, as Varys saved the baby Aegon with a decoy, and he would actually be first in line ahead of either Danny or Jon. But as I said before, if Danny keeps playing her cards right, line of succession laws won't matter when she is clearly becoming powerful enough to rewrite them. Granted, Jon's warg ability might help his cause if he can use that ability to bind himself to one of Danny's dragons (this is if Jon even survives the stabbings), as it seems pretty clear that she would take that as a sign. Which brings us to Victarion Greyjoy and his dragon horn...which could cause who knows how much trouble...

Spoiler

That is all true. And, in regards to the fire not burning, didn't one of the Targaryans attempt to drink wild fire to turn into a dragon? Yeah, that didn't work out too well for him.

The real laws of succession is whoever can take the Iron Throne keeps it. Robert proved that, as the Targaryan's had years before. I think the final book is going to have a lot of interesting happenings at King's Landing (or at least, FOR King's Landing), and like always, the poor are the ones who lose the most.

 

[zinfamous]

He is, at least according to the show. Ned had Jon Snow with some wench which is why Lady Stark hated Jon so much which she explained at some point before meeting her demise at the Red Wedding. Ned also told the story at some point, I think while alone with Robert Barathian.

KT

yes, it was quite vague. Robert would talk about their fighting and wenching days, and he mentioned in broken memory that one "whore" that Ned bedded, on that evening, the one time he broke his vows, or whatever. Ned looks a bit sad, only acknowledges it, and tells him to change the subject or some such. They never mention a name.

Ned did tell Jon, before they both head out--Jon to the Wall and Ned on to King's landing with Robert--that he will tell him about his mother the next time they meet. Ned's beheading pretty much ended that.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

arguing line of succession customs seems pretty pointless. firstly, they can be open to several legit interpretations (imo most strongly joffrey as the eldest son of the dead king, but only if you reject targaryens as the royal family), and secondly, more importantly, any real king leaves no doubt as to who is in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRrV1ff33iM#t=120

 

[Phoenix86]

yes, it was quite vague. Robert would talk about their fighting and wenching days, and he mentioned in broken memory that one "whore" that Ned bedded, on that evening, the one time he broke his vows, or whatever. Ned looks a bit sad, only acknowledges it, and tells him to change the subject or some such. They never mention a name.

Ned did tell Jon, before they both head out--Jon to the Wall and Ned on to King's landing with Robert--that he will tell him about his mother the next time they meet. Ned's beheading pretty much ended that.

They mentioned a name, but Robert was thinking about some whore he bedded. Bessie with the big tits or something like that. Ned corrected him, then changed the conversation w/o mentioning anything about the women he had Jon with.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

arguing line of succession customs seems pretty pointless. firstly, they can be open to several legit interpretations (imo most strongly joffrey as the eldest son of the dead king, but only if you reject targaryens as the royal family), and secondly, more importantly, any real king leaves no doubt as to who is in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRrV1ff33iM#t=120

Except Joffrey isn't the son of Robert, he's the son of Cersei and Jaime Lannister. Robert's only remaining son, Gendry, is a bastard, so he has no claim. Stannis is the best claim to the throne as the brother of Robert.

 

[smackababy]

Except Joffrey isn't the son of Robert, he's the son of Cersei and Jaime Lannister. Robert's only remaining son, Gendry, is a bastard, so he has no claim. Stannis is the best claim to the throne as the brother of Robert.

And, as quite a few "kings" have shown, the best claim to the throne is the person with the strongest army.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

And, as quite a few "kings" have shown, the best claim to the throne is the person with the strongest army.

Exactly. Stannis dismisses all other claimants as "usurpers" while Robert himself was a usurper. The Targaryan dynasty won the throne through conquest and Robert took it from them by conquest. The throne belongs to whoever has the might to take it and hold it. Hell, it might as well have belonged to the Starks rather than the Baratheons. The books talk several times about what might have happened if Ned claimed the throne for himself. He had as much right to it as Robert did.

 

[smackababy]

Hell, it might as well have belonged to the Starks rather than the Baratheons. The books talk several times about what might have happened if Ned claimed the throne for himself. He had as much right to it as Robert did.

Yeah, and that was a strange "rebellion". I don't think either wanted to throne, and only went to war because they hated the mad king, not because they wanted to be king or challenge his rule. However, after he was killed, someone had to be king and Ned wasn't about to let the Lannisters have it.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Except Joffrey isn't the son of Robert, he's the son of Cersei and Jaime Lannister. Robert's only remaining son, Gendry, is a bastard, so he has no claim. Stannis is the best claim to the throne as the brother of Robert.

don't confuse the viewer's/reader's perspective with a character's. there were no rumors of cersei and jamie until after joffrey took the throne, and the official story remains he is the eldest son of robert baratheon, of course.

who is the rightful ruler? the one that takes control.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

And, as quite a few "kings" have shown, the best claim to the throne is the person with the strongest army.

And how do you amass the strongest army? Helps to have the favor of the people. If the people do not believe you have the right or ability to rule, they're not going to readily offer that support, which is precisely why Robert was able to usurp the throne from the Targaryans.

Spoiler

That is all true. And, in regards to the fire not burning, didn't one of the Targaryans attempt to drink wild fire to turn into a dragon? Yeah, that didn't work out too well for him.

Spoiler

Drinking wild fire thinking you'll physically transform into a dragon because you're insane from generations of inbreeding is one thing, warging with a dragon or using a dragon horn would be another (although the dragon horn seems to be just as deadly to the user as drinking wildfire would be, so we'll have to see how that pans out, but Victarion does have a seemingly legit Red Priest on his side). And as we see from Quentyn Martell, you don't have to be particularly insane like Aerion Targaryen was (just read the short story, The Hedge Knight to see just how vile and crazy Aerion was) to try and score yourself a dragon

The real laws of succession is whoever can take the Iron Throne keeps it. Robert proved that, as the Targaryan's had years before. I think the final book is going to have a lot of interesting happenings at King's Landing (or at least, FOR King's Landing), and like always, the poor are the ones who lose the most.

Those aren't really laws of succession. The laws of succession are made by those who are in power. Obviously the easiest way to come into power is to inherit it or marry into it, but that doesn't mean that power cannot be taken or lost. The Targaryans had to take power during Aegon I's conquest from the seven kingdoms of Westeros. Obviously they needed dragons to take that power conquering 6 of the 7 kingdoms, and securing Dorne through marriage, but they didn't lose it immediately after the last dragon died...

arguing line of succession customs seems pretty pointless. firstly, they can be open to several legit interpretations (imo most strongly joffrey as the eldest son of the dead king, but only if you reject targaryens as the royal family), and secondly, more importantly, any real king leaves no doubt as to who is in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRrV1ff33iM#t=120

the only interpretation of succession is the law of the land backed by by the support of the people, that doesn't mean those laws can't be broken or rewritten.

anyhoo, House Baratheon is the current ruling house, so yes, Joffrey is the "rightful" ruler. However Robert was the first king of that new regime and there are still many people who are uneasy or indifferent about his rule and would easily go back to supporting the Targaryans; that is if they don't already still support the Targaryans (Dorne being that major player, as they're still pretty pissed about the murder of princess Elia, Rhaegar's wife, and the murder of her children at the hands of the Mountain and ending that right of claim to the throne)

keep in mind that Robert (and most of the Lannisters) wanted all the Targaryans dead so as to sure up his claim, knowing full well that the people could rally behind someone with a "better" claim to the throne. Again, a big part to the mess was the Aerys II Targaryen, the Mad King, was batshit crazy and pretty much deserved to be usurped, however most of the kingdom would have loved to seen his son, Rhaegar, become king. But ultimately it was Rhaegar running off with Lyanna Stark (Robert's betrothed) that pushed Robert over the edge and sent him on a path of vengeance and sparked the eventual downfall of the Targaryans.

Spoiler

so yeah, that's a pretty big question, Rhaegar running off with Lyanna and making what seems to be a huge blunder, which could come full circle and Jon is his son and does turn out to be Azor Ahai

 

[BladeVenom]

Spoiler

That is all true. And, in regards to the fire not burning, didn't one of the Targaryans attempt to drink wild fire to turn into a dragon? Yeah, that didn't work out too well for him.

Then there was the tragedy at Summerhall. One of the POV characters mentioned that several Targaryens in the past have had dreams of fire and dragons, and it usually ended badly.

Spoiler

Then there's Quentyn.

 

[BladeVenom]

Another short promo. Nice view of the Dreadfort. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lJatP8B0n0

A giant, http://instagram.com/p/mYMVlzMbLW/#

 

[BladeVenom]

Only 24 left to wait.

 

[pcslookout]

I already saw the first episode early.

 

[Ichinisan]

I already saw the first episode early.

Did everyone at Google HQ watch it together?

 

[Murloc]

yay yay yay can't wait

Did everyone at Google HQ watch it together?

*rofl*

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Did everyone at Google HQ watch it together?

hue

 

[Ichinisan]

hue

Maybe HBO "accepted him for a job offer?"

 

[The Boston Dangler]

this better not suck

 

[MongGrel]

I highly doubt anything will suck, I've read all the books, and if they stay true to form it's just going to accelerate, as many of the previews with the actors have stated.

This season is probably going to hit the ground running and not stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5iS3tULXMQ

 

[The Boston Dangler]

I highly doubt anything will suck, I've read all the books, and if they stay true to form it's just going to accelerate, as many of the previews with the actors have stated.

This season is probably going to hit the ground running and not stop.

that's what i want to hear.