Game installs on separate drive

[maniacalpha1-1]

Game installs on a separate drive(OS on SSD) will not work when the HDD is plugged into a new computer, right?

I was thinking of this because I was considering buying more games from Steam, and when I upgrade my CPU/mobo again(reusing the HDD in same fashion ), will that mean reinstalling steam and having to redownload all games.

 

[manko]

Steam games are pretty easy to move. You'd have to install Steam on the new system and you might have to move game folders and edit some config files, but you wouldn't have to re-download/re-install all the games.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Sounds good. I bought a $3 game on steam a month ago that turned out good, and Mafia 2 last night for $10, so looks like I'm going to end up with a few games after a while.

 

[allthatisman]

You basically install steam on the SSD, then delete everything except the Steam.exe and a couple other things and move them to the Steam folder on the larger drive, then run steam again, and the platform will update itself. I just did this with my two drives. I installed Windows on my 90gb SSD, then steam and all my games to another 128gb SSD. Now all I run off of the 90gb Vertex is Windows, Office, and iTunes etc. Works wonderfully. I believe there is an FAQ on this on Steam's website. Google it.

 

[Adam8281]

I just did this (that is, installed a new SSD OS drive while keeping my 200 GB of Steam games on a physical drive). It worked no problem. Before installing the SSD, I had an OS on HDD 1, and Steam (along with all its games) installed on HDD 2. After installing the SSD, I renamed the "steamapps" directory on HDD 2 something like "backup games." I then installed Steam on HDD 2, and dragged-and-dropped the contents of "backup games" into the newly-created "steamapps" directory.

 

[Zap]

Steam seems to fix itself after restarting a couple times. Sometimes you have to delete the *.blob files in the Steam folder, but otherwise I've had good luck with just moving the whole folder over. Alternately, do a fresh install of Steam and just move the steamapps folder over.

 

[Gorango27]

Just to clarify, as i want to upgrade my comp with an SSD, i can buy an SSD for windows, office, 1or2 games, etc. and install the rest of my games on a HDD with out issue?

 

[manko]

Just to clarify, as i want to upgrade my comp with an SSD, i can buy an SSD for windows, office, 1or2 games, etc. and install the rest of my games on a HDD with out issue?

You can do it with regular stand-alone game installers. A standard Steam install doesn't support different drive locations, but it sounds like there's a workaround:

How To: Split a Steam Install

 

[taltamir]

The reason games don't work when moved is due to DRM preventing it.

DRM free games will work. There is a surprising amount of DRM free games out there.

Steam is special in that its DRM is that you must be connected to the internet and logged in to your account while playing. If someone logs into your account on another computer it will log you out and halt the game. As such there is no reason for steam to prevent you from keeping your games installed after a windows reinstall / moving a drive. In fact it will just cost them money (bandwidth so that you may re-download the game). IIRC I am almost certain that I was able to "recover" my steam games on a new computer by simply reinstalling steam.
That is, I had steam installed into D:\Games\Steam and all the games were installed in subfolders there. when I reinstall windows on drive C I just run the steam installer again, install it into D:\Games\Steam, it finds all my currently installed games and they can then be ran without a redownload.
If I understand correctly it seems some here in this thread say that merely running steam.exe on the new computer is sufficient without even the need to reinstall

 

[Gorango27]

awesome cant wait til Aprilish so i can upgrade...

 

[Absolution75]

The only thing you will be missing are the windows registry settings and maybe DRM. Though I don't think I've had issues with just DRM. I recently played my original crysis install from a few windows installs ago

 

[taltamir]

The only thing you will be missing are the windows registry settings

That is a (rather simple) form of DRM. Games intentionally refuse to run if they do not have the registry entries. Open source / DRM free games don't care. The registry doesn't contain anything that is needed to run a game, ever. It might contain settings but those are typically saved in a file and can just be set to defaults if missing. It might contain the install directory but that is only needed for installing updates, not for running the game itself.

 

[Absolution75]

That is a (rather simple) form of DRM. Games intentionally refuse to run if they do not have the registry entries. Open source / DRM free games don't care. The registry doesn't contain anything that is needed to run a game, ever. It might contain settings but those are typically saved in a file and can just be set to defaults if missing. It might contain the install directory but that is only needed for installing updates, not for running the game itself.

The registry is not a form of DRM at all.

Digital rights management (DRM) is a term for access control technologies that are used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals to limit the use of digital content and devices.

The registry is just a connection of strings and numbers - even if you put somehow put DRM inside the registry itself, the registry still wouldn't be considered DRM. Its equivalent to a specialized file system - NTFS is not a form of DRM. . .


Some games just don't like to be moved around - some don't mind. Many won't update unless you have the correct registry settings as you've mentioned (WC3, Crysis, the list is endless).

Open source / DRM free games don't care. The registry doesn't contain anything that is needed to run a game, ever.

That's a broad unprovable statement which is most likely false. It all depends on how the programmers coded the application. Some could fail if they don't find the correct registry values.

Edit:
In fact, I just thought of one. The original JediKnight Dark Forces 2 requires the game to have the correct registry settings so that it can locate the correct game files. The installer is 16 bit so you can't run it on 64 bit Windows - but the application and files are 32bit. You can copy the files directly without using the installer, but you still need the correct registry entries to run the game.



To the OP - I move around my steam files all the time across my network. If you do run into issues, just do the steam menu->backup game.

 

[taltamir]

The registry is not a form of DRM at all.

I never said the registry is DRM. I said games putting strings in the registry and refusing to run when they aren't there is DRM. Your argument is like saying "CDs aren't DRM" when someone explains to you about CD copy protection, obviously the CD itself isn't the DRM nor is DRM a mandatory or integral part of the CD, the CD just contains the DRM scheme cooked up by companies.
Now read that sentence again and pretend it says "registry" instead of CD.

That's a broad unprovable statement which is most likely false. It all depends on how the programmers coded the application. Some could fail if they don't find the correct registry values.

No, it is a truthful statement, the registry doesn't ever contain anything necessary.

Edit:
In fact, I just thought of one. The original JediKnight Dark Forces 2 requires the game to have the correct registry settings so that it can locate the correct game files. The installer is 16 bit so you can't run it on 64 bit Windows - but the application and files are 32bit. You can copy the files directly without using the installer, but you still need the correct registry entries to run the game.

To the OP - I move around my steam files all the time across my network. If you do run into issues, just do the steam menu->backup game.

Nobody capable of writing a game that actually runs would write code so stupid and convoluted and flat out wrong.
Locating files via the registry is beyond retarded and completely unnecessary and convoluted unless it was done intentionally to prevent people from simply copying the game from drive to drive as a form of DRM. The game SHOULD look at the RELATIVE path, aka .\Data\example.dat
It doesn't matter where it is located the path is the same. There is a reason why games that "need" the registry can suddenly be moved around when cracked.

Way back when you had people installing a software or a game once on a computer, and then just copying the directory to all their friends. Moving it from one machine to the next. The first thing DRM addressed was to make it so you would need to "install" rather then just copy. This is often done via the registry.

 

[Elixer]

I went through this, and what happens is, once you install steam to the 'new' system, you point it to the same location (install directory you had before), and then when you launch the games, it goes through and redoes all the setup crap again (install DX, physfs, and whatever else), then you can play. It doesn't recreate the icons on the desktop though.

The catch is, it isn't that easy with some games, especially GFWL games. That is such a crappy DRM, it isn't funny. The "offline" profiles are a HUGE PITA to move to a new system.
Same with savegames, you have to manually copy those over, and again, savegames with GFWL "offline" profiles, are a HUGE PITA.
And yes, there are some games that require registry settings as stupid as that is.

 

[taltamir]

And yes, there are some games that require registry settings as stupid as that is.

Yes but my argument is that if someone managed to make a game that runs at ALL then this must be intentional; aka DRM. I guess I should have phrased it better.

 

[Absolution75]

The only thing you will be missing are the windows registry settings

That [the registry] is a (rather simple) form of DRM.

I never said the registry is DRM.

Yes you did.

I said games putting strings in the registry and refusing to run when they aren't there is DRM.

That isn't DRM. CD keys aren't DRM, neither is the good old insert CD to play game. Registry strings aren't DRM as they could simply be exported from one PC to another.

Your argument is like saying "CDs aren't DRM" when someone explains to you about CD copy protection, obviously the CD itself isn't the DRM nor is DRM a mandatory or integral part of the CD, the CD just contains the DRM scheme cooked up by companies.
Now read that sentence again and pretend it says "registry" instead of CD.

The registry doesn't do anything by itself. Neither do CD's. If you insert a game CD which has a bunch of DRM it will do nothing until you run the installer which will install the DRM on your system (unless its really evil DRM like sony's rootkit, but that still could never happen with the windows registry).

No, it is a truthful statement, the registry doesn't ever contain anything necessary.

Besides the example I just pointed out which is fact and contradicts your statement (see here - http://www.vistax64.com/gaming/158631-jedi-knight-dark-forces-2-vista-x64.html#post736591). In this example, it is clear that the program doesn't use relative paths for finding its files. While this isn't the best way to code an application, its clear that it has been done. So whether you think no one will ever or has ever done such a terrible thing is irrelevant - because its not true and people have done it. I hope you realize that a ton of necessary information is contained in the windows registry such as program data, drivers, windows internal settings, windows activation, etc etc etc. Try to delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and tell me how far you get until your windows install gets corrupted. Same goes for HKEY_CURRENT_USER.

It doesn't matter where it is located the path is the same. There is a reason why games that "need" the registry can suddenly be moved around when cracked.

Cracking has nothing to do with the registry, it has to do with DRM. Cracking removes and DRM requirements which will allow them to be moved from PC to PC assuming that all the other requirements are met (registry settings etc).

Way back when you had people installing a software or a game once on a computer, and then just copying the directory to all their friends. Moving it from one machine to the next. The first thing DRM addressed was to make it so you would need to "install" rather then just copy. This is often done via the registry.

That isn't DRM - feel free to learn what DRM actually is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management.

That isn't even copy protection - that's just the way things were done in the past before relative file paths were used consistently.

 

[taltamir]

That [the registry] is a (rather simple) form of DRM.

If you have to ADD something to a quote then you are doing it WRONG.

What I said was:

The only thing you will be missing are the windows registry settings

That is a (rather simple) form of DRM. Games intentionally refuse to run if they do not have the registry entries.

Anyone can clearly see that when I said "that" I am not referring to the registry but the fact that missing registry entries causes the game to fail.

That isn't DRM. CD keys aren't DRM, neither is the good old insert CD to play game. Registry strings aren't DRM as they could simply be exported from one PC to another.

A weak form of DRM is still DRM. You must find and identify all of them to copy them, then use a tool to automate the process. And probably make modifications to them for the new computer. It is actually a more difficult process then copying the subchanel data of a securom protected CD. And by your argument securum's CD check isn't DRM since you can copy t he CD with the right tools.

The registry doesn't do anything by itself. Neither do CD's. If you insert a game CD which has a bunch of DRM it will do nothing until you run the installer which will install the DRM on your system (unless its really evil DRM like sony's rootkit, but that still could never happen with the windows registry).

So you DO get it. Why do you keep arguing then? And why do you insist on trying to twist my words out of context?

That isn't DRM - feel free to learn what DRM actually is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management.

That isn't even copy protection - that's just the way things were done in the past before relative file paths were used consistently.

I know what DRM is, thanks for the obvious wikipedia link though, since wikipedia is such a complete and useful source on technical manners (note: sarcasm)

This isn't "just the way things have been done" this is a thing done intentionally to control what you do with content. Aka DRM.

 

[Absolution75]

Anyone can clearly see that when I said "that" I am not referring to the registry but the fact that missing registry entries causes the game to fail.

It clearly wasn't clear enough. DRM still is not stored in the registry though - its an actual driver/rootkit essentially. Sure, there might be settings in the registry - but those are meaningless without the actual driver/rootkit running. Last time I checked, securom files are located in C:\Users\WINDOWSNAME\AppData\Roaming\SecurRom - the files will be a bunch of characters that are illegal in NTFS filesystems making them impossible to delete from within windows (hence the invasive part).

A weak form of DRM is still DRM. You must find and identify all of them to copy them, then use a tool to automate the process. And probably make modifications to them for the new computer. It is actually a more difficult process then copying the subchanel data of a securom protected CD. And by your argument securum's CD check isn't DRM since you can copy t he CD with the right tools.

I seriously can't tell if you're trolling or not. Cracks don't do anything with the registry. There is no automated process. The way no cd cracks are written is simply NOP'ing out specific bytes in the executable. Once you do this, you don't even need the subchannel securerom crap - because DRM checks are never made because in the cracked executable, they have been removed. Sometimes executables are packed, encrypted, or run in virtual machines. This is all still trivial because you can dump the executable from memory and crack it there.

So you DO get it. Why do you keep arguing then? And why do you insist on trying to twist my words out of context?

I'm just correcting your misinformation.

I know what DRM is, thanks for the obvious wikipedia link though, since wikipedia is such a complete and useful source on technical manners (note: sarcasm)

Sorry, I didn't bother to get the referenced links on the page - I didn't realize this thread was going to be published.

This isn't "just the way things have been done" this is a thing done intentionally to control what you do with content. Aka DRM.

Programs that use registry paths for finding files aren't DRM aka you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[taltamir]

I'm just correcting your misinformation.

No, you are creating strawmen arguments of things I don't say, ignore the actual content of my posts, and then "disprove" the strawmen you setup.
And all so you can avoid the simple fact that if a game fails to run because it isn't "installed" (aka missing the right registry entries) it is on purpose, aka DRM.

It clearly wasn't clear enough.

Yet I have made it abundantly clear since and you still keep on misrepresenting it.

DRM still is not stored in the registry though - its an actual driver/rootkit essentially. Sure, there might be settings in the registry - but those are meaningless without the actual driver/rootkit running. Last time I checked, securom files are located in C:\Users\WINDOWSNAME\AppData\Roaming\SecurRom - the files will be a bunch of characters that are illegal in NTFS filesystems making them impossible to delete from within windows (hence the invasive part).

Stop with the strawmen already!
The actual "check" for seeing if the right CD is inserted, registry keys, serial numbers, or internet login are found in a driver, rootkit, or a main executable. The data they are checking is found on the CD, registry, a local file, or an internet server (respectively). What is so hard to understand?

 

[lamedude]

Just remember to backup the savegames that are put into MyDocuments/application data.

 

[taltamir]

Just remember to backup the savegames that are put into MyDocuments/application data.

I sure do

 

[Voo]

Nobody capable of writing a game that actually runs would write code so stupid and convoluted and flat out wrong.
Locating files via the registry is beyond retarded and completely unnecessary and convoluted unless it was done intentionally to prevent people from simply copying the game from drive to drive as a form of DRM.

Wait using the registry is "beyond retarded"? Ini files do have their advantages and disadvantages but it's hardly clear cut - as a matter of fact Ini files are deprecated on Win32. And RegOpenKeyEx hardly is complicated.

The registry itself is just a (hierarchical) DB and no kind of DRM - except if your definition of DRM also includes filesystems.
Also there were more than enough 32bit applications that used 16bit installers (old InstallShield, ACME,..) for a long time.

 

[pcslookout]

Will steam itself ever become portable ? Not talking about the game files themselves because Steam lets its customers copy and backup those quite easily, not that you have to.

 

[taltamir]

Wait using the registry is "beyond retarded"?

... Seriously what is it with you people and strawman? Can't you address my actual arguments instead of making up your own?

I said using the registry to LOCATE GAME RESOURCES is beyond retarded, not using it in general (although it just so happens that the registry is stupid, I never actually brought it up in this thread until now).
If you want to locate a game resource you use a relative path. eg .\Data\ResourceName.ext
I also said that any game that does use the registry to locate specific resources is doing so on purpose, so that it may fail when missing the registry entries. This is to prevent you from copying it between computers, aka DRM.

The registry itself is just a (hierarchical) DB and no kind of DRM

The CDROM drive is just a device for reading 1s and 0s off optical media and no kind of DRM. The internet is just a transmission protocol for data, no DRM there.
And yet we have DRM in the executable that will check if you have the right CD inserted, and DRM that will dial home and require an active internet connection.
Just because the registry is a hirarchial DB with no DRM properties doesn't mean that you can't use it to facilitate a DRM scheme. Just as the internet, CDrom, etc get used to facilitate DRM schemes.
Just as an executable will have DRM that dials home via the internet, and looks at the CDRom drive to see if you have the disk inserted, so will said executable look in the registry. It will look there for serial numbers to verify, it will look there for hidden strings to verify it was installed, in some specific games it will look there for game asset location in order to fail when it is copied to a new machine rather then installed.